The Search for Optimal Chest Growth

I am in agreement with Professor X on nearly everything. However, I do not think the minority who do not get optimal chest stimulation are stating they cannot feel it “at all” in their chest. I have the big arm/small torso syndrome (well, used to) that CT has spoken about frequently.

I know quite a few guys who have this problem and vice versa. Even Dorian, who was torso dominant, left a tad to be desired in the arms department compared to the rest of his gargantuan physique.

Building a big chest, or any large muscle group, is NOT all about the “big bangers”, as most people would have others believe. I know or know of quite a few men who got better quads from leg presses, hack squats, and Smith machine squats over squats.

I know men who got large chests from dips, dumbbell press variations, fly variations, and machine presses. However, I have not seen a man who had a barndoor back without deadlifting. But who really knows if that was all about deadlifting anyway.

Thia is where my gripe with some writings on this site as well as others, comes into play. People such as DC (don’t get me wrong, I like this guys writings quite a bit), AC, EC, and CW

(can’t say I like this guy’s writings despite the fact that he knows how to train people and is a very bright fellow) would have SOME people believe, especially those that do not read intently or follow only what they see in writing, that this whole game is about making progress in the big exercises.

I, myself, wish that developing an outstanding physique was as simple as that for guys like myself, who were not born with ideal levers and efficient nervous systems. My back and chest would have been considered big long ago!

It was not until I started to blast my chest with pre-exhaust and drop sets with isolation exercises such as pec deck and dumbbell flies, that my chest took off. I also had to ditch barbell exercises. For back, I could not get a pump in my lats until I used the same practice as well.

I incorporated pre-exhaust and drop sets with straight arm pulldowns and machine pullovers. I ditched the barbell row and replaced it with dumbbell rows, using a very concentrated stretch and contraction, really focusing on stretching the lats and getting a peak contraction at the top.

Finishing pullups with one long negative (30 seconds) or just negative faster reps (4 second lowerings) at the end worked a great deal too. Now I can get a good enough pump and innervation in my lats without pre-exhaust and have gone back to the big bangers for the back with good progress. I will only go back to the barbell with chest when I can innervate my pecs with no problem.

Just as an aside, Dorian did not make the quad progress that he experienced un in his prime until he switched to Smith squats and hack squats and leg presses. Even the greats have to make adjustments. I know this post is somewhat of a random ramble but I also had a similar issue with my hams. I thought the stiff legged deadlift was an absolute must.

However, my erectors would take over and literally be in knots hours later or the next day with minimal hamstring and glute stimulation. I do FAR better with pullt-hroughs, walking lunges, glute ham gastroc raises, and/or high and wide stance leg presses. I have experienced very good growth in the glutes and hams since using these exercises exclusively.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

It was not until I started to blast my chest with pre-exhaust and drop sets with isolation exercises such as pec deck and dumbbell flies, that my chest took off. I also had to ditch barbell exercises. For back, I could not get a pump in my lats until I used the same practice as well.
[/quote]

so, this is a good way to go. you proved it worked. I also proved and worked. good for skinnies, maybe useles for advanced.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I’ll be listening to the bigger fella because that 4% would’ve been harder to get than the 10% on the skinny fella.

I hope I haven’t misunderstood your comments (clarifying Prof X?) but I disagree.

It is simply EASIER to get from a 38" chest to a 46" than it is to go from 46" to 52". The latter takes REAL long term dedication for years to break past the range most people fall into. The former will make progress by simply growing up and being a man.

I train differently now than I did when I had a 48" chest because it takes a different stimulus (and much greater weight) and approach to even get a chest over 52".

[/quote]

No I completely agree with this, but what I’m talking about is build/genetics, not training age/experience. Of course, if someone has already been training and made decent gains already, gaining a “measly” 2 iches is great. But, if someone naturally had a bigger build to start with (like some 6.5ft giant), and then decided to BB and went up just a few inches after training for years, this is nothing compared to someone who had a smaller build and who got better gains in the same amount of time (despite the smaller build still being smaller than the bigger one).

In 2 years training experience (no training prior):

“Skinny Runt” adds 6"
“Big John” adds 2"

Despite “Big John” still having a bigger chest, which one was training the best?

I’ve seen this so many times; people with naturally huge builds (bone structure), but not pushing them to their fullest potential. It would be unwise to listen to one like this just because they look big.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I’ll be listening to the bigger fella because that 4% would’ve been harder to get than the 10% on the skinny fella.

I hope I haven’t misunderstood your comments (clarifying Prof X?) but I disagree.

It is simply EASIER to get from a 38" chest to a 46" than it is to go from 46" to 52". The latter takes REAL long term dedication for years to break past the range most people fall into. The former will make progress by simply growing up and being a man.

I train differently now than I did when I had a 48" chest because it takes a different stimulus (and much greater weight) and approach to even get a chest over 52".

No I completely agree with this, but what I’m talking about is build/genetics, not training age/experience. Of course, if someone has already been training and made decent gains already, gaining a “measly” 2 iches is great. But, if someone naturally had a bigger build to start with (like some 6.5ft giant), and then decided to BB and went up just a few inches after training for years, this is nothing compared to someone who had a smaller build and who got better gains in the same amount of time (despite the smaller build still being smaller than the bigger one).

In 2 years training experience (no training prior):

“Skinny Runt” adds 6"
“Big John” adds 2"

Despite “Big John” still having a bigger chest, which one was training the best?

I’ve seen this so many times; people with naturally huge builds (bone structure), but not pushing them to their fullest potential. It would be unwise to listen to one like this just because they look big.[/quote]

I completly Agree with you!

[quote]Professor X wrote:

The point was, someone much smaller, regardless of how much actual progress they have made has ZERO experience using the weight I use on a regular basis for several reps and not just some one rep max.

It is simply EASIER to get from a 38" chest to a 46" than it is to go from 46" to 52". The latter takes REAL long term dedication for years to break past the range most people fall into. The former will make progress by simply growing up and being a man.

I train differently now than I did when I had a 48" chest because it takes a different stimulus (and much greater weight) and approach to even get a chest over 52".

This is where actual experience when it comes to my final goal wins out over someone who THINKS they know what to do.

If you are still pretty skinny, EVERYONE is bigger than you so this doesn’t even apply.

No matter what, anyone who acts like building truly large muscles shouldn’t be respected over someone much smaller is retarded, especially on this forum.

Even if there was less actual progress from point A to point B, the bigger guy knows how to be that big. The smaller does not and has no clue what that even feels like with that much weight held over them. They wouldn’t know how to maintain that size or the strategy in the gym that helps someone like that make even further progress.

The bigger guy wouldn’t have to ask what exercise leads to “optimal chest growth” because they would have already found it.

Most of the people in this thread are just throwing out theory.[/quote]

I don’t think people realize that when using circumfrence as a measurement, that there is more muscle tissue that needs to be built as the number gets higher. Basically what I’m saying, is a one inch increase on a 50 inch chest requires more muscle to be built than a one inch increase on a 38 in chest.

[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I don’t think people realize that when using circumfrence as a measurement, that there is more muscle tissue that needs to be built as the number gets higher. Basically what I’m saying, is a one inch increase on a 50 inch chest requires more muscle to be built than a one inch increase on a 38 in chest.
[/quote]

So, the tricks of the 50incher will give more growth used on a skinny?
I think that it depends on proportion. Maybe, Maybe, it is based on, let say, wrist measure. it is not the same to grow from 38 to 50 on a person with 6.5" on wrist than a person with 8" on wrist. The later will find it easier.

[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:

I don’t think people realize that when using circumfrence as a measurement, that there is more muscle tissue that needs to be built as the number gets higher. Basically what I’m saying, is a one inch increase on a 50 inch chest requires more muscle to be built than a one inch increase on a 38 in chest.
[/quote]

Good point, but it’s not just that. Most of these guys would faint if they HAD to eat as much food everyday as some guy who has a 52" chest and is trying to add another inch on it. The weight used to build a chest that big is more weight than most people even have the genetics to reach. I can count on one hand the people who can actually bench press 405lbs in my gym without someone else lifting half the weight off of them.

Building your body to “extreme” proportions takes MUCH more focus, drive, and even resources than it takes to reach “average” even if the smaller actually made a larger increase in the tape measure.

Natural development and age is also a factor. Some guy who is 16 years old with a 38" chest is going to grow and get bigger whether he lifts weights or not. That means counting that into the overall measurement of change is misleading at best.

I think it is just hard for some to admit that the huge beast in the corner actually DESERVES more respect when it comes to building muscle mass than someone much smaller. They try to find every reason possible for why they shouldn’t go to someone like that for advice.

Yes, there are exceptions, but those exceptions don’t make the rule.

In the end, the guy who has made the most progress and actually got big is the best one to go to for advice than the guy who was naturally big and didn’t have to do much…or the small guy who may have gained a lot, but still doesn’t qualify as even “above average”.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I think it is just hard for some to admit that the huge beast in the corner actually DESERVES more respect when it comes to building muscle mass than someone much smaller. They try to find every reason possible for why they shouldn’t go to someone like that for advice.
.[/quote]

Do you remember the wisdom of not just asking the biggest guy, that seems to have become ‘dont ask the biggest guy, at all!’ and i think that’s a misinterpretation of that old guideline.

I know what people mean when they note ‘natural advantage, bone structure’ etc but it’s all getting upside down; someone who developed truly large musculature didnt get it without learning something, nor did they get it overnight.

The only point i’d add is that if one had the opportunity to ask, as someone with 40’ chest, they may be interested in being 52’ but they’d be looking for advice on the first few years not so much the journey from 48 to 52.

The earlier point about muscle volume was very well made too, gaining an inch means ever more in volume terms and is ever more pushing the boundary of potential size and thus is ever more impressive.

It’s about credibility, those who’ve earned it have it.

My 2cents:
By observation I have noticed a lot of long limbed pressers get good chest growth from benching. This makes sense as the upper arm has to travel further into abduction before the bar hits the chest. Longer limbed pressers are essentially doing cambered bar presses in comparison to more compact lifters.

I am a long limbed lifter and bench presses (incline, flat) builds my chest better than anything. Now training for powerlifting and benching 3-4times a week (works for me) I am getting stretch mark and visible improvements from month to month while clothed (friends are noticing).
This is with out the aid of anabolic steroids or other illegal substances btw.

People with different structure or issues with synergistic dominance (other primary movers take the main load), should focus on following bulletpoint IMO:

  1. Learn how to bench with a moderate upper back arch and shoulder blades tucked. Push your chest out, squeeze your shoulder blades together and down. This creates a nice stretch in your chest and lessens the stretch of the anterior delt in the bottom position = less deltoid activation.
    This is not a call for everyone to do a full on human pretzel/powerlifting arched benching style.

  2. Use the decline. Decline takes the shoulders a little out of the movement and puts more stress on triceps and chest. Shortens ROM though.

  3. Pre “activate” chest. Doing the most muscular pushing your hands together and squeezing hands together and flexing your chest hard while keeping shoulders back, down and relaxed is a good way to get those pec’s firing.
    Physios will call it activation, bodybuilders will call it mind muscle connection/pre fatigue. The whole point is to get your chest to fire more. Experiment with the posing/flexing/mind muscle idea between sets or before chest workouts. Cable crossovers, pec decks or other similar moves may work well for this also. Experiment!

  4. You are fat. Bodyfat hides certain bodyparts moreso than others. It is rare that the chest musculature looks impressive on heavyweight powerlifters or offseason bodybuilders, because of this.

Finally: read the articles by Thibaudeau and Waterbury on the subject. Their writing is smarter and sexier than mine (no I won’t do the search for you :wink: ).

First choose the right parents…

Then, seek out someone who can honestly tell you they’ve got shitty genetics for chest, yet found a way to elicit growth in that area.
I have to somewhat disagree with the admonition that you seek out the biggest guy in the gym. In my neck of the woods, it’s usually a juicer who was 200lbs in 6th grade!
I personally feel I have terrible chest genetics. Never seem to feel traditional chest movements in the pecs.
I’ve further exacerbated this with training for powerlifting with no regard for balanced development.
The barbell bench press with various grips hasn’t done shit for my chest development. I’ve benched 455 at 220, still have crappy pecs. Some tips that have worked for ME:

Pre and post exhaustion. Esp post.
*Dumbells–MUCH, MUCH better for ME in terms of pec dev.
Hanging chain pushups.
Various flying movements with db’s and cables.
Leaning forward dips, ala Gironda.
More frequent volume and loading parameter changes vs other body parts.

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
ericmillah wrote:
ill tell you what, i used to frown on benching too, cause ive seen countless tards and fags bench for hours and hours and hours and hours.

Any advice on how did you find it useful? Was your form? what were you doing bad, that dislike you. [/quote]

my form started poor, but it gets better. keep the bar straight and dont move your wrists at all if you can. (but im sure you know, some of those fags that lower the bar at like a 45 degree angle and wobble the whole way up got bigger chests than you! simply cause they do it!)

i got my chest to grow doing flys and cable crossovers, but it wasnt EQUAL to the rest of my body. flys and other chest specific exercises are meant to isolate a certain spot of the chest, you gotta hit every angle.

Start doing bench, incline bench, wide grip, close grip, every single variation (and do it all EQUALLY!). Its like working out your legs and not doing squats. (you do squats DONT YOU?!)

also, do some ribcage stuff too. (breathing squats and pullovers and whatever else you can find.) thatll help push your chest out.

dont listen to people that say anything about genetics. (they usually have an inferiority complex!)

[quote]ericmillah wrote:
also, do some ribcage stuff too. (breathing squats and pullovers and whatever else you can find.) thatll help push your chest out.

dont listen to people that say anything about genetics. (they usually have an inferiority complex!)[/quote]

Are you serious?

[quote]ty45 wrote:
ericmillah wrote:
also, do some ribcage stuff too. (breathing squats and pullovers and whatever else you can find.) thatll help push your chest out.

dont listen to people that say anything about genetics. (they usually have an inferiority complex!)

Are you serious?[/quote]

I think the only serious thing on this site, is when you accept the charge on your credit card and the author’s articles.

just enjoy the posts.

[quote]juanjromero wrote:

I think the only serious thing on this site, is when you accept the charge on your credit card and the author’s articles.

just enjoy the posts.[/quote]

Opinionated young fella, aren’t you!

[quote]ericmillah wrote:
dont listen to people that say anything about genetics. (they usually have an inferiority complex!)[/quote]

Yeah, I just can’t handle the fact that my brother’s twice my size:

My brother - Built like a brick even before working out (weighed about 185lbs to begin with), he eats 2, maybe 3 meals a day (it’s not unusual for him to have only eaten an apple and a couple protein shakes in one day!), if he remembers he takes a couple of protein shakes, no more than 3000 cals/day total calories, we both do the same routines. Sleeps an average of 6 hours/night.

Myself - Underweight to start with (139lbs), eats at least 6 meals/day (over 4500 cals/day), never misses any meal, sleep over 8 hours every night. BTW, we’re both at the same strength levels too.

Yeah of course, it’s just insecurity, nothing to do with REALITY lol…

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
ericmillah wrote:
dont listen to people that say anything about genetics. (they usually have an inferiority complex!)

Yeah, I just can’t handle the fact that my brother’s twice my size:

My brother - Built like a brick even before working out (weighed about 185lbs to begin with), he eats 2, maybe 3 meals a day (it’s not unusual for him to have only eaten an apple and a couple protein shakes in one day!), if he remembers he takes a couple of protein shakes, no more than 3000 cals/day total calories, we both do the same routines. Sleeps an average of 6 hours/night.

Myself - Underweight to start with (139lbs), eats at least 6 meals/day (over 4500 cals/day), never misses any meal, sleep over 8 hours every night. BTW, we’re both at the same strength levels too.

Yeah of course, it’s just insecurity, nothing to do with REALITY lol…[/quote]

if you change the 185 to 200lbs. you and me have the SAME problem lol…

[quote]djwhizkid wrote:
if you change the 185 to 200lbs. you and me have the SAME problem lol…[/quote]

LOL, wow, wish I weighed that to start with. Yeah, bearing in mind too that I’m 6ft, and my brother is 5ft 8" and he still is bigger…

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
djwhizkid wrote:
if you change the 185 to 200lbs. you and me have the SAME problem lol…

LOL, wow, wish I weighed that to start with. Yeah, bearing in mind too that I’m 6ft, and my brother is 5ft 8" and he still is bigger…[/quote]

Don’t be jealouss, you avatar looks great. and, chances are he will have higher blood pressure than you.