The Sadness of Welfare

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m late to the party here, and it may have already been addressed, but why the fuck can’t someone live off minimum wage? It’s $7.25/hour, and at 40 hours that’s close to $300 a week. Why can’t someone live off that? It won’t be comfortable, but what right do you have to be comfortable at minimum wage?

And if that’s really not enough, work more hours, work a second job. What’s wrong with working 60 hours a week, especially in your 20’s? Sixty hours at minimum wage gives you over $400/week. If you don’t like making minimum wage, find a new job or get a raise.

I don’t understand the argument.[/quote]

Not to mention you are only on minimum wage at max a year before you get a raise.

162

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
If I had my own school system, these would be mandatory(not in any order of importance)

  • Life skills course, which would include(but not limited to): CPR, first aid, food handlers course(now everyone is qualified for a job), changing a flat tire, swimming, nutrition, keyboard/computer/internet skills, financial management/basic accounting
  • Self-defense/martial arts
  • Sciences, chem, bio, physics, etc
  • Basic shop/trades, ie some mechanical, carpentry, electrical, plumbing, painting, etc
  • Law and Politics(I think these two go hand-in-hand, right?)
  • History, social science, geography, learn about your country and the rest of the world
  • Phys. Ed., nutrition could also be addressed here if life skills got too big
  • Foreign languages would be elective(if there’s room) and/or extracurricular
  • Art would be extracurricular just like sports teams

Criticisms? alterations?[/quote]

Yeah, I’d rather see kids become masters at one thing than a jack of all trades.[/quote]

I don’t know if what you posted is in disagreement but if it is, then I disagree.
IME, most kids don’t know what the hell they want(myself included when I was in HS, and probably a lot of adults too). Compound this with the way the world is nowadays with so many choices of what can/is available to you, leading the youth to become distracted by all these wants/desires and forgetting about their needs.

If HS kids were given a taste of a wide array of useful(keyword here) skills and knowledge, you wouldn’t have as much time and money wasted on dead end roads. How many people do you know with bachelor’s degrees and either no job or no skills to get a job? or skipping from job to job looking for the greener grass?

163

[quote]jre67t wrote:
To capped and plant, in one post you stated that the woman was a black woman, so you made a stereotype of people, correct? No where in my post did I state this woman was black. Also you stated you have worked hard in your life and thats good.
So 2 days later talking to the regular Mailman, he goes on to tell me she has 4 kids with 2 baby daddies. The car is not stolen, it is hers. To jeffe, your the type of person who actually needs the welfare, not this sorry ass bitch who I still loathe about.
I do not get how some you fellows can defend this type of behavior. I can guarantee you if all you saw what I saw, you guys would go mentally berserk. Its like seeing a woman get hit by a man, what real man is gonna is gonna stand there and let it happen.

Also opportunities are everywhere cappedandplant. Im an anchor baby with two former illegal parents. My parents are citizens now, father is a plant manager at a major filter industry with only a 7th grade education from Mexico, now he makes over 100k a year. Imagine that a Mexican illiterate with a mustache like Tom Selleck, a Manager of over 1000 employees. Who has raise me, a proud American who served this country over six years and will proudly die defending the constitution, so please stop making excuses my friend. [/quote]

I’m not making excuses, for me or anyone else. I’m explaining that certain conditions lead to people making certain choices. Want to fix the problem? Focus on the conditions.

“I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes”

164

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m late to the party here, and it may have already been addressed, but why the fuck can’t someone live off minimum wage? It’s $7.25/hour, and at 40 hours that’s close to $300 a week. Why can’t someone live off that? It won’t be comfortable, but what right do you have to be comfortable at minimum wage?

And if that’s really not enough, work more hours, work a second job. What’s wrong with working 60 hours a week, especially in your 20’s? Sixty hours at minimum wage gives you over $400/week. If you don’t like making minimum wage, find a new job or get a raise.

I don’t understand the argument.[/quote]

For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.

165

[quote]John S. wrote:
MattyG35 you belong in America(this is the best complement I can give.)[/quote]

Thank you John, that’s a very nice compliment.

166

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m late to the party here, and it may have already been addressed, but why the fuck can’t someone live off minimum wage? It’s $7.25/hour, and at 40 hours that’s close to $300 a week. Why can’t someone live off that? It won’t be comfortable, but what right do you have to be comfortable at minimum wage?

And if that’s really not enough, work more hours, work a second job. What’s wrong with working 60 hours a week, especially in your 20’s? Sixty hours at minimum wage gives you over $400/week. If you don’t like making minimum wage, find a new job or get a raise.

I don’t understand the argument.[/quote]

For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.[/quote]

So these are your monthly bills? I imagine they would be different for someone getting by on minimum wage.

167

If you want to end public entitlement programs, stop patronizing the companies which refuse to pay a living wage. Because of it’s extremely low wages, Wal-Mart actually ENCOURAGES it’s employees to seek out government assistance such as Medicaid, food stamps and WIC.

Everyone wants their Made-in-China crap for dirt cheap, but no one stops and looks at the consequences and who is paying the real price. Well, someone has to run the registers, and someone has to stock the shelves, and they have to do it for a joke of a paycheck.

I know the first argument that is going to come back is, “Well, nobody forced them to take such a crappy job.” But where does that leave us? What if NOBODY took the crappy jobs? What if no one ran the registers, or stocked the shelves, or stood at the door saying, “Welcome to WalMart”? What would the market look like then? Think the Waltons would be multi-billionaires then?

You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. Mass consumerism has a price, a very human price. You can’t have your super-cheap crap and pay everyone decent wages, too. This is why people get on public assistance and/or stay on public assistance.

The system is all around broken, and the entitlement programs are a symptom, not the disease itself.

I know I really picked on Wal-Mart here, but it’s one example of many.

168

[quote]firespinner93 wrote:
I know the first argument that is going to come back is, “Well, nobody forced them to take such a crappy job.” But where does that leave us? What if NOBODY took the crappy jobs? What if no one ran the registers, or stocked the shelves, or stood at the door saying, “Welcome to WalMart”? What would the market look like then? Think the Waltons would be multi-billionaires then?
[/quote]

Well, if NOBODY took a crappy job, it would either cease to exist, or the pay for that job would go up until it wasn’t such a crappy job anymore. Pretty simple, really.

169

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.[/quote]

Why do you have a student loan and make so little?

170

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m late to the party here, and it may have already been addressed, but why the fuck can’t someone live off minimum wage? It’s $7.25/hour, and at 40 hours that’s close to $300 a week. Why can’t someone live off that? It won’t be comfortable, but what right do you have to be comfortable at minimum wage?

And if that’s really not enough, work more hours, work a second job. What’s wrong with working 60 hours a week, especially in your 20’s? Sixty hours at minimum wage gives you over $400/week. If you don’t like making minimum wage, find a new job or get a raise.

I don’t understand the argument.[/quote]

For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.[/quote]

So these are your monthly bills? I imagine they would be different for someone getting by on minimum wage.
[/quote]

These aren’t my bills. I eat way more than that, have a gym at home(that I paid for myself) have my own car, haven’t started school yet and live with my parents :slight_smile:
I feel this represents the average student fairly well, although I don’t think they would be able to work 40hrs/wk if they had a full course load. I just did some math for a student that works out, lives on their own, has a one bedroom apartment and takes the bus. The numbers represent real life averages for where I live.

171

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.[/quote]

Why do you have a student loan and make so little?[/quote]

This isn’t me(see other post I made to malonetd), I just threw the numbers together after going thru cost of living for where I live. I think it represents what an average student would make on minimum wage fairly well. If not, let’s discuss.

172

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]firespinner93 wrote:
I know the first argument that is going to come back is, “Well, nobody forced them to take such a crappy job.” But where does that leave us? What if NOBODY took the crappy jobs? What if no one ran the registers, or stocked the shelves, or stood at the door saying, “Welcome to WalMart”? What would the market look like then? Think the Waltons would be multi-billionaires then?
[/quote]

Well, if NOBODY took a crappy job, it would either cease to exist, or the pay for that job would go up until it wasn’t such a crappy job anymore. Pretty simple, really.[/quote]

Really? If it’s so simple, why isn’t it already working that way? Unemployment is at an all time high, but the fast-food joint around the corner is always hiring. They only raise wages when the government tells them they have to. Those jobs haven’t started paying more, and their existence is far from cessation.

173

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m late to the party here, and it may have already been addressed, but why the fuck can’t someone live off minimum wage? It’s $7.25/hour, and at 40 hours that’s close to $300 a week. Why can’t someone live off that? It won’t be comfortable, but what right do you have to be comfortable at minimum wage?

And if that’s really not enough, work more hours, work a second job. What’s wrong with working 60 hours a week, especially in your 20’s? Sixty hours at minimum wage gives you over $400/week. If you don’t like making minimum wage, find a new job or get a raise.

I don’t understand the argument.[/quote]

For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.[/quote]

So these are your monthly bills? I imagine they would be different for someone getting by on minimum wage.
[/quote]

These aren’t my bills. I eat way more than that, have a gym at home(that I paid for myself) have my own car, haven’t started school yet and live with my parents :slight_smile:
I feel this represents the average student fairly well, although I don’t think they would be able to work 40hrs/wk if they had a full course load. I just did some math for a student that works out, lives on their own, has a one bedroom apartment and takes the bus. The numbers represent real life averages for where I live.[/quote]

Then I don’t understand where the student loan comes in. Maybe it’s different in Canada, but here most student loans are deferred – meaning they don’t have to be repaid until after graduation. So either that expense doesn’t exist or this is a college graduate (I guess a college drop out is also plausible) that is making minimum wage.

Also, I realize this is a bodybuilding website and a gym is a “necessity” to most people here, but it’s an unnecessary luxury for someone just struggling to get by.

174

[quote]firespinner93 wrote:
Really? If it’s so simple, why isn’t it already working that way? Unemployment is at an all time high, but the fast-food joint around the corner is always hiring.[/quote]
Why isn’t what working what way? I thought we were talking about NOBODY taking a job? All the fast food places around me have SOMEBODY working there.

That’s not true. Most fast food places offer semi-annual or annual raises and promotion opportunities.

[quote] Those jobs haven’t started paying more, and their existence is far from cessation.
[/quote]
Why would they pay more when people are willing to work at the rate they are offering? I said they would pay more if NOBODY would work there.

175

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I would add to Matty’s list, some education on personal finance and the dangers of personal debt. [/quote]

Tell that to pro athletes. Those guys are train wrecks 5 years after the league.

I like richdads view on assets. Like your house isn’t an asset unless it’s providing positive cash flow, otherwise it’s a liability. I think Rich Dad Poor Dad should be a mandatory read in high school. [/quote]

That concept really stuck with me after reading that book, the difference between an asset and a liability.
[/quote]

If you like Rich dad you should look up Mike Maloney, His Wave theory of assests is amazing.[/quote]

Link to his theory, if you would, sir.

176

I’ve never taken out a student loan, so you’re probably correct with it being deferred. The numbers are still true, but you would have more time to work without uni getting in the way.
They would also change a lot if you had a child at a young age. There are many other variables that could be included or changed.
I was trying to create an example of what 40 hrs/wk @ minimum wage would look like with average bills. Think of it as a template that can be adjusted, ie making 12, 15 dollars/hr, not having the gym membership, car insurance, etc.

177

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
If I had my own school system, these would be mandatory(not in any order of importance)

  • Life skills course, which would include(but not limited to): CPR, first aid, food handlers course(now everyone is qualified for a job), changing a flat tire, swimming, nutrition, keyboard/computer/internet skills, financial management/basic accounting
  • Self-defense/martial arts
  • Sciences, chem, bio, physics, etc
  • Basic shop/trades, ie some mechanical, carpentry, electrical, plumbing, painting, etc
  • Law and Politics(I think these two go hand-in-hand, right?)
  • History, social science, geography, learn about your country and the rest of the world
  • Phys. Ed., nutrition could also be addressed here if life skills got too big
  • Foreign languages would be elective(if there’s room) and/or extracurricular
  • Art would be extracurricular just like sports teams

Criticisms? alterations?[/quote]

Yeah, I’d rather see kids become masters at one thing than a jack of all trades.[/quote]

I don’t know if what you posted is in disagreement but if it is, then I disagree.
IME, most kids don’t know what the hell they want(myself included when I was in HS, and probably a lot of adults too). Compound this with the way the world is nowadays with so many choices of what can/is available to you, leading the youth to become distracted by all these wants/desires and forgetting about their needs.

If HS kids were given a taste of a wide array of useful(keyword here) skills and knowledge, you wouldn’t have as much time and money wasted on dead end roads. How many people do you know with bachelor’s degrees and either no job or no skills to get a job? or skipping from job to job looking for the greener grass? [/quote]

Maybe they should learn to stop wanting the greener grass. Look at it this way, most people in America go to school for at least 12 years and can pass without knowing a thing. And, then tons of people wonder through undergrad without knowing what they want to actually do in undergrad.

Why not allow them to work until they decide what they want, let the fire set in.

178

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m late to the party here, and it may have already been addressed, but why the fuck can’t someone live off minimum wage? It’s $7.25/hour, and at 40 hours that’s close to $300 a week. Why can’t someone live off that? It won’t be comfortable, but what right do you have to be comfortable at minimum wage?

And if that’s really not enough, work more hours, work a second job. What’s wrong with working 60 hours a week, especially in your 20’s? Sixty hours at minimum wage gives you over $400/week. If you don’t like making minimum wage, find a new job or get a raise.

I don’t understand the argument.[/quote]

For where I live $9.50CAD, comes to $380/week or ~$1600/month(+2 days).
Starting @ 1600-25% tax = $120
Apartment 1200-500 = $700
Public Transportation 700-50 = $650
Food 650-200 = $450
Gym Membership $450-50 = $400
Student Loan 400-$350 = $50

Sure it’s possible, but things would be tight as fuck. I’ve stayed on the low side here for costs because someone like this would be living very thrifty, so I’m sure you can imagine when real life kicks in what the results would be.[/quote]

1600-120=1200?

Work another 20 hours a week.

2280*.75 = 1710
1710 - 500 = 1210
1210 - 50 = 1160
1160 - 200 = 960 (Not sure why you need public and your own car)
960 - 50 = 910
910 - 350 = 560

179

Forgot a zero there Chris, my apologies. I hope that didn’t confuse you.
That ‘template’ wasn’t me Chris, I have my own car and don’t take public transit.
It was meant to represent what 40 hrs/wk @ minimum wage would look like for an average person. I haven’t written it into stone yet.

180

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Also, rockscar, all your personal attacks are completely off base. But you are, after all, an idiot who thinks saying angry things and posting some douchebag picture as your avatar gives you any merit.[/quote]

Gotcha. You have no argument to logic and responsibility as evident here. If you think I wrote a personal attack then you have some very soft skin.

I’m sorry for thinking you are a lazy “the world is not fair” doucher, but your posts led me to believe that.

I can see now that is not the case. [/quote]

Yup, I’m just lazy. In 2009 I spent about 6 or 7 months working about 60 hours a week, then 40 hours when I quit the second job. Then, I was let go from my full time job in march of 2010 and, that day, went back to reapply for my old part time job. From there I took another job, which, after about a month of full time, ended up being part time as well, so I was back to working about 50 hours a week. Also, I took a couple of classes in the spring of 2010 and one in the fall of 2010, and now two more for the spring of 2011. I was lucky enough to be able to go to school for massage therapy a few years back, so I’ve kept up with a few clients with weekly/bimonthly sessions for a little extra money on the side and have been trying to get into different organizations doing on site chair massage (though the field is a bit difficult for male therapists). Toss in girlfriends, friends, and going to the gym at least a few times a week, and, yeah, I’m real fucking lazy and I sit back and wait for people to hand me jobs. [/quote]

Another sad fact liberals cant understand:
Some people are not meant to make it.

“I dont understand why I’m not living on easy street…I took student loans to study art for 12 years, and then I took a part time job at McDonalds and a Sunday job working at the library…
What do you mean I’m 35 with no experience, no skills, and no marketable education?”

People make bad choices and it isn’t the tax payers job to underwrite them.