The Sadness of Welfare

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Going with what ZEB said.
Living in Canada, and the winters we have here, I’ve often wondered why they don’t get people on welfare to clear the snow in the streets, after all, they’re already being paid.
Cut grass in the parks, and other landscaping activities.
Clean up garbage in certain districts that you want to look nice.
Sweep up streets in the spring from all the salt and sand that was laid down over winter.
I’m sure there’s plenty more that could be thought up.[/quote]

Yes, this is a great idea. I will add some sort of motivation like advancement opportunities. Going from picking up dog shit to a less degrading job maybe. We’re on to something.

62

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
This is pretty mean-spirited, but I guess hard times do that to people.

Anyhow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]

And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]

Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!

[/quote]

LMAO.

Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]

How about we make (yes force) them to work for their money? Let’s get rid of the welfare state completely and give these people jobs cleaning the streets, washing cars and a number of other menial jobs. At least this way one of two things will happen:

1-They won’t like it very much and go out and get a job that they prefer.

2-Build a little self esteem by actually working for the money that is given them by the government.

The only people that should ever get a hand out are those who are unable to work through some sort of REAL disability. And of course I am not for taking money from seniors who have become accustomed to their SS checks. But I would also raise the retirement age to 70. People are living longer now and their is no reason anyone should retire before 70, unless they have some sort of disability.
[/quote]

This is the kind of reform I would like to see myself. However, I do think things like number of dependents and that kind of thing should be taken into account one way or another.

63

I remember hearing somewhere about social workers getting incentives(ie bonuses) for getting their cases back on their feet.

64

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
See, Fletch, lots of people don’t like to live in reality. They prefer the ivory tower American dream where everybody in America can succeed and if you don’t “its your own damn fault!!!”

Nevermind that, in the majority of companies, the people who do the work that create the profit for the company are paid absolute shit wages. Nevermind that more and more people have to work 60+ hours just to keep up with bills. Nevermind that charity wouldnt come close to actually supporting a person while they looked for work, let alone a family.

Nevermind that the favorite punishment of any bill collector is charging more money, so any time a person is a little short ends up being a much bigger problem after you calculate all the “late fees”. Nevermind that lots of people don’t come from families that allow them a free ride through college and have to start working as soon as they can.

Nevermind that, shockingly, people are human and working a labor intenstive/stressful job for 40+ hours a week leaves them too tired to go to night classes, or get a second job, or even go out job hunting for something better.

Nevermind that some peoples families couldnt give them a car when they became old enough to drive (limiting their job opportunities) or send them to college (limiting their education opportunities) or an expensive suit to wear on job interviews (limiting their ability to project a professional appearance)… you’ll always hear Rich White Guy pound his fist about how he’s a self made man, ignoring all the completely unearned benefits that were passed along to him.

And, yeah, like Ryan said, a bunch of educated white men are directly responsible for contributing to our econimic crisis AND WERE REWARDED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR IT. Yet jre and some racist TxCASH want to pound their fists that a black woman is “stealing” welfare.

Who’s the real problem in America, poor black people or rich white people?[/quote]

You and the people you defend are pussys. How many rags to riches stories have happened in this great nation of ours? The biggest problem is people spending too much money b/c they want to feel like everybody else with a life. My poor friends go out to eat more than I do. They buy stupid things that are worthless the moment there are purchased.

It’s called growing the fuck up and being responsible. Almost every scum bag I know living in government housing does drugs, has kids they can’t pay for, and have an 8th grade mentality. My cousin and all of his neighbors are perfect examples. I’ve seen it firsthand and it amazes me when I visit just how childish their mentalities are.

65

Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes.

Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.

66

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes. Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.[/quote]

Yeah, because not having a job at all will definitely help.

67

When government takes money from someone who earned it and gives it to someone who did not earn it they’ve not helped either person![/quote]

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.

68

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Welfare Tab for Children of Illegal Immigrants Estimated at $600M in L.A. County

More fucking win. Note that this stat is from just one country, not even the state.
[/quote]

If anyone finds this story outside of FOX News, please let us know. I would be shocked if MSNBC or CNN have this story up. I will assume they will not cover this.

69

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I think I should quit my job and just go on welfare. Do some jobs on the side and stay at home. Yea, now if everyone did this think how wonderful the world would be. The economy would be booming and our dollar would soar.

Oh wait. No, that’s exact fucking opposite of what we should do.

There should be mandatory drug tests and employment attempts at the very least. If I happen to lose my job I’m glad there is a system to help me get back on my feet. It’s just the scum of the earth that choose to stay off their feet that piss me off. [/quote]

Just think if welfare and unemployment where done by private companies, these abuses would be gone.[/quote]

Please explain how it would work. Not disagreeing, just clueless. Unless these private companies could collect tax dollars how do they operate?[/quote]

Unemployment can operate just like you buy auto insurance, or health insurance. Infact Jobs could say they offer unemployment insurance as part of employment. And welfare insurance could work just like disability insurance.

70

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
That bitch. She should be working 60 hours a week for minimum wage to make some already rich people even richer while she struggles to pay her rent.

Let the flaming begin, but don’t miss my point: when the system is designed to fuck people, don’t be surprised when people decide to start fucking the system.[/quote]

Well, she could always start up her own business doing hair, or doing nails. Then she could really “stick it” to the man by charging his wife $150 to do her hair and nails.[/quote]

Yup. She can just magically poof into existence the money for the licenses/certifications, the equipment, the schooling, the insurance, etc, etc.

Actually I’m a big fan of people doing work for others and getting paid directly without the government getting a cut, I do it all the time. But the government hates that, so they put everything in a persons way to stop them.

71

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes.

Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.[/quote]

There are many charities that offer free daycare for the parents if they go to school or have a job.

If welfare worked it would have ran itself out of existance in times of booms.

72

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
When government takes money from someone who earned it and gives it to someone who did not earn it they’ve not helped either person![/quote]

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :stuck_out_tongue:

73

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
When government takes money from someone who earned it and gives it to someone who did not earn it they’ve not helped either person![/quote]

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

74

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

You and the people you defend are pussys. How many rags to riches stories have happened in this great nation of ours? The biggest problem is people spending too much money b/c they want to feel like everybody else with a life. My poor friends go out to eat more than I do. They buy stupid things that are worthless the moment there are purchased.

It’s called growing the fuck up and being responsible. Almost every scum bag I know living in government housing does drugs, has kids they can’t pay for, and have an 8th grade mentality. My cousin and all of his neighbors are perfect examples. I’ve seen it firsthand and it amazes me when I visit just how childish their mentalities are.[/quote]

And how many rags to rags stories have happened? How many GENERATIONS of families have been poor all their lives?

But of course the couragous, hardworking people like you only want to look at the one in a million who can raise themselves out of it, and ignore the 999,999 who live under it their entire lives.

75

[quote]calebsmitty wrote:
Why do democrats always compare republicans to Fascists? Do you know what fascists believe in? Don’t say Nazi’s. They do not encompass all fascists. And their political ideals more closely resemble a socialist than a true Conservative Republican.

I did some work at a WIC clinic years ago and I can not begin to tell you how many women came into our clinic driving an Escalade with a Gucci purse and Gucci sunglasses, etc. Taking all the free stuff offered and feeling no shame. That is the problem they have no pride in themselves. They don’t care.

I think all welfare offered to adults should require some service in return. Put them work. Cleaning streets, picking up trash, something. I am sure there is something they can do to earn that money.

FDR created projects that paid people to work. When did the US take the work out of it? [/quote]

Yes, I am sure digging holes in swamps is going to really produce anything other than holes in swamps. FDR is the reason why we have welfare, and why the Great Depression was prolonged.

76

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

[/quote]

Does one individual deserve what many others have worked hard to produce?

If you were unemployed and the only job opportunity you had was the one being my servant for 3 bucks a day, would you take it? Would you praise me for “giving you an opportunity” and “creating a job” for you?

Thought not.

77

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
That bitch. She should be working 60 hours a week for minimum wage to make some already rich people even richer while she struggles to pay her rent.

Let the flaming begin, but don’t miss my point: when the system is designed to fuck people, don’t be surprised when people decide to start fucking the system.[/quote]

Well, she could always start up her own business doing hair, or doing nails. Then she could really “stick it” to the man by charging his wife $150 to do her hair and nails.[/quote]

Yup. She can just magically poof into existence the money for the licenses/certifications, the equipment, the schooling, the insurance, etc, etc.

Actually I’m a big fan of people doing work for others and getting paid directly without the government getting a cut, I do it all the time. But the government hates that, so they put everything in a persons way to stop them.[/quote]

You do realise that a don’t actually need a license or a certificate to do that stuff right? I cut hair for side cash two mornings a week and the only thing is that I am required to inform my clients that I don’t have papers from the state.

78

[quote]calebsmitty wrote:
That is the problem they have no pride in themselves. They don’t care.
[/quote]

I agree. But what do you think brings them to that point of not caring?

Why do you have pride, and care, while they don’t?

The answer isn’t “they’re bad people and I’m better than them”.

79

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes.

Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.[/quote]

You study much economics?

80

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

[/quote]

Does one individual deserve what many others have worked hard to produce?

If you were unemployed and the only job opportunity you had was the one being my servant for 3 bucks a day, would you take it? Would you praise me for “giving you an opportunity” and “creating a job” for you?

Thought not.[/quote]

I guess in your world this is the only job available to me. Nope, I create MY opportunities.

No, I would FIND A BETTER JOB! Wow what a concept huh?

-I did get laid off…in July 2010
-I did look for work…
-I did accept a job making 30% of what I did before…
-I did accept that job because I have bills to pay. Even though my expenses exceed that income, you HAVE to start somewhere.

AND FINALLY

I will keep on the path to job and income improvement.

That’s the difference between us, I push forward without bitching, doing what needs to be done… and you would rather focus on what’s bad, and complain and cry about how unfair the world is. It’s like you think someone needs to come TO YOU with a job offer, and then that’s not enough either. Pathetic. You are a true example of the problem.