The Sadness of Welfare

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Never mind that more and more people have to work 60+ hours just to keep up with bills. [/quote]

Well…maybe they shouldn’t spend more money than they make?[/quote]

How dare even suggest that people live within their means and perhaps do without certain things that others can well afford.[/quote]

Sorry, I guess I should go back to my economics class and learn some more, Keynesian economics. Print, Print, Print, Animal Spirits, Animal Spirits, Animal Spirits!

82

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
That bitch. She should be working 60 hours a week for minimum wage to make some already rich people even richer while she struggles to pay her rent.

Let the flaming begin, but don’t miss my point: when the system is designed to fuck people, don’t be surprised when people decide to start fucking the system.[/quote]

Well, she could always start up her own business doing hair, or doing nails. Then she could really “stick it” to the man by charging his wife $150 to do her hair and nails.[/quote]

Yup. She can just magically poof into existence the money for the licenses/certifications, the equipment, the schooling, the insurance, etc, etc.

Actually I’m a big fan of people doing work for others and getting paid directly without the government getting a cut, I do it all the time. But the government hates that, so they put everything in a persons way to stop them.[/quote]

You do realise that a don’t actually need a license or a certificate to do that stuff right? I cut hair for side cash two mornings a week and the only thing is that I am required to inform my clients that I don’t have papers from the state.[/quote]

Actually nope, didn’t know that (please dont try attacking the fact that I didn’t research that particular trade).

My point, however, still stands, that starting a business is not a possibility for most people.

83

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]calebsmitty wrote:
That is the problem they have no pride in themselves. They don’t care.
[/quote]

I agree. But what do you think brings them to that point of not caring?

Why do you have pride, and care, while they don’t?

The answer isn’t “they’re bad people and I’m better than them”.[/quote]

Because they do not earn what they have, thus over time they feel they are inferior. Hell even if we made them do menial jobs around the city’s they live in that would cause them to feel like they are earning there way, and you would notice a complete shift in not only the way they look at themselves, but as society views them too.

Also when a future employer looks at their history they will see that they have been working and thus know the value of a hard days work, thus making their chances of employment much greater.

84

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

[/quote]

Does one individual deserve what many others have worked hard to produce?

If you were unemployed and the only job opportunity you had was the one being my servant for 3 bucks a day, would you take it? Would you praise me for “giving you an opportunity” and “creating a job” for you?

Thought not.[/quote]

Three bucks a day? I worked for less and yes I’d take it if I had no other options, at least I can get a pound of ground beef for my family everyday.

85

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

[/quote]

Does one individual deserve what many others have worked hard to produce?

If you were unemployed and the only job opportunity you had was the one being my servant for 3 bucks a day, would you take it? Would you praise me for “giving you an opportunity” and “creating a job” for you?

Thought not.[/quote]

I guess in your world this is the only job available to me. Nope, I create MY opportunities.

No, I would FIND A BETTER JOB! Wow what a concept huh?

-I did get laid off…in July 2010
-I did look for work…
-I did accept a job making 30% of what I did before…
-I did accept that job because I have bills to pay. Even though my expenses exceed that income, you HAVE to start somewhere.

AND FINALLY

I will keep on the path to job and income improvement.

That’s the difference between us, I push forward without bitching, doing what needs to be done… and you would rather focus on what’s bad, and complain and cry about how unfair the world is. It’s like you think someone needs to come TO YOU with a job offer, and then that’s not enough either. Pathetic. You are a true example of the problem.
[/quote]

And how did you manage, during that time of unemployment, and of underemployment, not to end up in copious amounts of debt?

86

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Actually I’m a big fan of people doing work for others and getting paid directly without the government getting a cut, I do it all the time. But the government hates that, so they put everything in a persons way to stop them.[/quote]

You are so right.

87

Also, rockscar, all your personal attacks are completely off base. But you are, after all, an idiot who thinks saying angry things and posting some douchebag picture as your avatar gives you any merit.

88

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

[/quote]

Does one individual deserve what many others have worked hard to produce?

If you were unemployed and the only job opportunity you had was the one being my servant for 3 bucks a day, would you take it? Would you praise me for “giving you an opportunity” and “creating a job” for you?

Thought not.[/quote]

Three bucks a day? I worked for less and yes I’d take it if I had no other options, at least I can get a pound of ground beef for my family everyday.[/quote]

And just think, you could go around and grab cans out of the garbage, and with that you could even buy a gallon of milk for your family too.

89

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes.

Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.[/quote]

You study much economics?[/quote]

If the government didn’t tax people as much, but instead raised the min. wage, I think it could work out and make both parties happier (employer and employee).

90

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

I wish that were the problem. In reality the problem is that most on welfare, and now the Obama extended unemployment insurance debacle, are turning down jobs that are close to what they’re making on these programs. They would rather make a little less and do nothing than show up and try each day for a little more. Human nature my friend…human nature.

By the way that’s one reason that you will never see unemployment below 9% or 10%. As long as you pay people something close to what they were making to not work most will continue to take that money and not work.

Simple logic that liberals cannot grasp for some reason.

91

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

Absolutely true. Don’t give a man a dollar. Give him an opportunity.[/quote]

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

WHACKO ALERT…BEWARE!

Does everyone deserve what one driven individual has worked hard to achieve?

The real world is not subject to Kindergarten rules or even the concept of “fair”.

[/quote]

Does one individual deserve what many others have worked hard to produce?

If you were unemployed and the only job opportunity you had was the one being my servant for 3 bucks a day, would you take it? Would you praise me for “giving you an opportunity” and “creating a job” for you?

Thought not.[/quote]

I guess in your world this is the only job available to me. Nope, I create MY opportunities.

No, I would FIND A BETTER JOB! Wow what a concept huh?

-I did get laid off…in July 2010
-I did look for work…
-I did accept a job making 30% of what I did before…
-I did accept that job because I have bills to pay. Even though my expenses exceed that income, you HAVE to start somewhere.

AND FINALLY

I will keep on the path to job and income improvement.

That’s the difference between us, I push forward without bitching, doing what needs to be done… and you would rather focus on what’s bad, and complain and cry about how unfair the world is. It’s like you think someone needs to come TO YOU with a job offer, and then that’s not enough either. Pathetic. You are a true example of the problem.
[/quote]

And how did you manage, during that time of unemployment, and of underemployment, not to end up in copious amounts of debt? [/quote]

Another shocking concept for you …

It’s call being responsible. It’s called putting a few dollars away each month. I drained my savings severely to make the ends meet. I also accepted unemployment for 2 months which I had paid into for over 20 years.

You seem to have the whole well…what if…what if no job, what if no savings, what if fired and no unemployment???

I conduct my life as to NOT be that guy.

Responsibility is the final answer.

Our grandparents used to work 2-3 jobs and 90 hours a week and never complained like martyrs or bitches. You did what needed to be done, and your life is nobody elses fault but YOUR FUCKING OWN.

92

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

How many GENERATIONS of families have been poor all their lives?
[/quote]

That coincides almost exactly with how many generations have been on welfare. Are you seeing a cause and effect yet?

Why work when you get things for free?

93

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes.

Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.[/quote]

You study much economics?[/quote]

If the government didn’t tax people as much, but instead raised the min. wage, I think it could work out and make both parties happier (employer and employee).[/quote]

Minimum wage is one of the worst things one can do to the economy, the amount of jobs it destroys(especially for teenagers) should be a crime.

94

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

I wish that were the problem. In reality the problem is that most on welfare, and now the Obama extended unemployment insurance debacle, are turning down jobs that are close to what they’re making on these programs. They would rather make a little less and do nothing than show up and try each day for a little more. Human nature my friend…human nature.

By the way that’s one reason that you will never see unemployment below 9% or 10%. As long as you pay people something close to what they were making to not work most will continue to take that money and not work.

Simple logic that liberals cannot grasp for some reason.
[/quote]

I disagree about the “human nature” part. If it really were just a matter of humnan nature, a lot more people would do it.

But you’re right when you say “As long as you pay people something close to what they were making to not work most will continue to take that money and not work.” Maybe if jobs paid more, people would be on welfare less?

Again, there goes my horrible vision of the majority of the country living comforably instead of the countries wealth being concentrated on a small group. That’d be awful.

95

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Never mind that more and more people have to work 60+ hours just to keep up with bills. [/quote]

Well…maybe they shouldn’t spend more money than they make?[/quote]

How dare even suggest that people live within their means and perhaps do without certain things that others can well afford.[/quote]

Sorry, I guess I should go back to my economics class and learn some more, Keynesian economics. Print, Print, Print, Animal Spirits, Animal Spirits, Animal Spirits![/quote]

LOL…

96

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

How many GENERATIONS of families have been poor all their lives?
[/quote]

That coincides almost exactly with how many generations have been on welfare. Are you seeing a cause and effect yet?

Why work when you get things for free?

[/quote]

I think you’re confusing cause and effect. You seem to be saying that welfare is the problem. I’m saying the conditions that lead to people being on welfare are the problem.

97

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I’ll pay you three dollars a day to clean my entire house, take care of my dogs, and do my grocery shopping.

What? You dont do it because its a lot of work for shit pay? BUT I’M GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY, I’M CREATING A JOB!

Ungrateful prick. The nerve. :P[/quote]

I wish that were the problem. In reality the problem is that most on welfare, and now the Obama extended unemployment insurance debacle, are turning down jobs that are close to what they’re making on these programs. They would rather make a little less and do nothing than show up and try each day for a little more. Human nature my friend…human nature.

By the way that’s one reason that you will never see unemployment below 9% or 10%. As long as you pay people something close to what they were making to not work most will continue to take that money and not work.

Simple logic that liberals cannot grasp for some reason.
[/quote]

I disagree about the “human nature” part. If it really were just a matter of humnan nature, a lot more people would do it.

But you’re right when you say “As long as you pay people something close to what they were making to not work most will continue to take that money and not work.” Maybe if jobs paid more, people would be on welfare less?

Again, there goes my horrible vision of the majority of the country living comforably instead of the countries wealth being concentrated on a small group. That’d be awful.

[/quote]

If you take your picture of what a comfortable life is from that small percentage it is actually impossible.

Show an Indian the lifestyle of the American poor and see him laughing his ass off.

98

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Another issue is that a full time working person (40hours) at minumum wage can’t bring a family out of poverty. Like what was said above to some extent, someone working 60hours a week isn’t going to be able to get out of that rut through education financially and the time it takes.

Remember that someone has to watch children through certain ages and also many min. wage jobs don’t give regular hours making it even more difficult to support a family (child care and financially). Daycares are very expensive. I think a lot of the welfare issue could be fixed through raising the min. wage.[/quote]

You study much economics?[/quote]

If the government didn’t tax people as much, but instead raised the min. wage, I think it could work out and make both parties happier (employer and employee).[/quote]

Raising the minimum wage is not the answer. According to government statistics over 85% of those making the minimum wage are teens, or those in starter jobs. If someone wants to make more than the minimum wage they must work their way out of it. Also, raising the minimum wage will cause business to hike prices thus causing inflation.

99

Someone mentioned John Maynord Keynes so I am obligated to post this fun yet informative video.

100

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Also, rockscar, all your personal attacks are completely off base. But you are, after all, an idiot who thinks saying angry things and posting some douchebag picture as your avatar gives you any merit.[/quote]

Gotcha. You have no argument to logic and responsibility as evident here. If you think I wrote a personal attack then you have some very soft skin.

I’m sorry for thinking you are a lazy “the world is not fair” doucher, but your posts led me to believe that.

I can see now that is not the case.