[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Orion: ok, ok, they’re spiritually the same, but the way I see it we need to prioritize cutting the entitlements we actually can’t afford over the relatively small expenses of WIC and so on, which frequently do help the needy. We can see if we want the state to really wither away when that’s actually a salient issue – right now it would be nice to not go broke.
Zeb: I have no firsthand experience as to whether welfare actually makes individuals’ lives worse, so I can’t comment on that. One thing that does seem like a problem is marginal rates – that point at which getting a minimum-wage job would actually make your household POORER than remaining unemployed, because it reduces benefits sharply. That actually happens, and I think that does make people’s lives worse.
On the other hand: I know “think of the children” is a cliche, but my doctor’s office used to serve primarily teen mothers on TANF, and the thing is, some of the moms might be morons (or raised in an environment where long-term thinking never seems relevant, I don’t know how it works, I probably can’t understand it) but the infants do need milk and it isn’t their fault.[/quote]
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
That bitch. She should be working 60 hours a week for minimum wage to make some already rich people even richer while she struggles to pay her rent.
Let the flaming begin, but don’t miss my point: when the system is designed to fuck people, don’t be surprised when people decide to start fucking the system.[/quote]
Yes, good point. Let’s be mad at this woman for scamming us out of a new Infiniti while ignoring the people who actually caused the recession and are getting paid billions of dollars for it.
[/quote]
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
…
Zeb: I have no firsthand experience as to whether welfare actually makes individuals’ lives worse, so I can’t comment on that. One thing that does seem like a problem is marginal rates – that point at which getting a minimum-wage job would actually make your household POORER than remaining unemployed, because it reduces benefits sharply. That actually happens, and I think that does make people’s lives worse…[/quote]
Welfare, public housing etc make lives worse, this has been demonstrated over and over again.
The unemployment argument is quite different and temporary. Unemployment is supposed to run out after six months.
Paying extended unemployment puts the country deeper in debt which has major negative effects.
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]
Welfare has it’s place. It’s the abuse of the welfare system that is being discussed here and what can be done to limit the abuse.
Things like drug tests, job assignments, etc.
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]
Welfare has it’s place. It’s the abuse of the welfare system that is being discussed here and what can be done to limit the abuse.
Things like drug tests, job assignments, etc.[/quote]
Bingo. It’s the difference between a social safety net, and a hammock.
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]
Sick people die in the streets?
As long as people use bullshit rhetoric like this the system will never be fixed.
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]
Sick people die in the streets?
As long as people use bullshit rhetoric like this the system will never be fixed.[/quote]
If medicare and medicaid are entitlements, and entitlement programsare bad and should be ended, what the fuck do you think will happen to the sick people who get their medicine and medical supplies from medicare and medicaid?
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]
Sick people die in the streets?
As long as people use bullshit rhetoric like this the system will never be fixed.[/quote]
If medicare and medicaid are entitlements, and entitlement programsare bad and should be ended, what the fuck do you think will happen to the sick people who get their medicine and medical supplies from medicare and medicaid?
Durh, uh, charities?[/quote]
They work very well. Cut my taxes and I would give even more.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Zeb: I have no firsthand experience as to whether welfare actually makes individuals’ lives worse, so I can’t comment on that. One thing that does seem like a problem is marginal rates – that point at which getting a minimum-wage job would actually make your household POORER than remaining unemployed, because it reduces benefits sharply. That actually happens, and I think that does make people’s lives worse.[/quote]
You’re confusing having less money with having a worse life. If you think someone ultimately feels better about themselves after taking 20 years of free money from the government as opposed to making an honest living then you are confused relative to how one very important way people are able to raise the self-esteem.
Well, I do agree with that. No one wants to see an innocent child suffer for even a second. But, the type of entitlement atmosphere that these grow up in only serves to make their own lives equally dependent as they see their mom fat (they usually are) and happy collecting their free check from the government. Wrong message to send a developing mind. So, maybe we help the kids but not the parents.
Unemployment comp and welfare are about 2% of the Federal budget in 2010.
If you want to look at what’s driving our fiscal crisis, it’s Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Welfare is salient in a lot of people’s minds but it’s not the big issue.[/quote]
And the programs you mentioned are what exactly?[/quote]
Entitlements. I am entitled to the money!
[/quote]
LMAO.
Entitlements. Not letting sick people die in the street because they don’t have lots of money for medicine = entitlements.[/quote]
How about we make (yes force) them to work for their money? Let’s get rid of the welfare state completely and give these people jobs cleaning the streets, washing cars and a number of other menial jobs. At least this way one of two things will happen:
1-They won’t like it very much and go out and get a job that they prefer.
2-Build a little self esteem by actually working for the money that is given them by the government.
The only people that should ever get a hand out are those who are unable to work through some sort of REAL disability. And of course I am not for taking money from seniors who have become accustomed to their SS checks. But I would also raise the retirement age to 70. People are living longer now and their is no reason anyone should retire before 70, unless they have some sort of disability.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
That bitch. She should be working 60 hours a week for minimum wage to make some already rich people even richer while she struggles to pay her rent.
Let the flaming begin, but don’t miss my point: when the system is designed to fuck people, don’t be surprised when people decide to start fucking the system.[/quote]
Well, she could always start up her own business doing hair, or doing nails. Then she could really “stick it” to the man by charging his wife $150 to do her hair and nails.
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Society wants the poor to be fed and have a place to stay, so lets coerce everyone into being charitable. Makes sense… makes sense. =/[/quote]
Going with what ZEB said.
Living in Canada, and the winters we have here, I’ve often wondered why they don’t get people on welfare to clear the snow in the streets, after all, they’re already being paid.
Cut grass in the parks, and other landscaping activities.
Clean up garbage in certain districts that you want to look nice.
Sweep up streets in the spring from all the salt and sand that was laid down over winter.
I’m sure there’s plenty more that could be thought up.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Do some ya’ll think charities are enough to help get people back on their feet again after lay offs and whatnots? And don’t give me that ‘they should’ve saved money’. Some jobs just don’t pay enough to have reserves. And don’t give me ‘they should have gotten an education and/or better job’. If no-one took the shit jobs, how would things get done (burger flipping, garbage man, bottom of the ladder retail). I definitely think there needs to be major welfare reform, but unfortunately the kind I’m thinking about doesn’t win politicians votes…
[/quote]
It matters what kind of charity you are talking about exactly. Soup kitchens and homeless shelters? No.
About three times a year I help run a “career” fair where we bring in employers, skill builders, dentists (always can use a teef check-up), people to give a general physical exams for young children, trade schools, low-income housing, showers (homeless people need to smell good to get a job), clothes, &c.
Every time we do it we get a dozen or so homeless people off the streets and into housing, jobs, and set them up with a food bank ($5 for a weeks worth of food). Also, we usually take care of all the families to get them back into housing and get them jobs.
So, yes charities work better than welfare, at least in the long run. No one wants to come back to the “career” fair twice, unless they are volunteering the second time.
Why do democrats always compare republicans to Fascists? Do you know what fascists believe in? Don’t say Nazi’s. They do not encompass all fascists. And their political ideals more closely resemble a socialist than a true Conservative Republican.
I did some work at a WIC clinic years ago and I can not begin to tell you how many women came into our clinic driving an Escalade with a Gucci purse and Gucci sunglasses, etc. Taking all the free stuff offered and feeling no shame. That is the problem they have no pride in themselves. They don’t care.
I think all welfare offered to adults should require some service in return. Put them work. Cleaning streets, picking up trash, something. I am sure there is something they can do to earn that money.
FDR created projects that paid people to work. When did the US take the work out of it?
FDR created projects that paid people to work. When did the US take the work out of it? [/quote]
That would be 1964 when the worst modern day President (democrat) Lyndon Baines Johnson decided to launch something called a “War On Poverty” (oh my such a militarist name-I guess the lefty’s didn’t care then). The government then began handing out checks as if it had the right. From the point on the the welfare roles grew and the entitlement mentality along with it.