The Right Way to Bulk

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]forlife wrote:
I was using myself as an example of a broader observation. Guys who start lifting later in life often get a bad rap in this forum. You may be working hard in the gym like everyone else, but unless you weigh X pounds, your opinions are dismissed, or you are told to fuck off and go to another forum because you’re not a real bodybuilder.[/quote]

Working hard… I’ll ask again, are you gaining muscle? How much have you gained in the last, say two years? I’ll listen to anyone who can show good results, regardless of age.

Besides, there is a over 35 forum… to me you just sound bitter that you didn’t get cracking at this when you were younger. I didn’t start until I was 26 myself, but I think I have pretty good genetics for this stuff, and I still have some years to grow some serious muscle. If you’ve never carried above average muscle mass, why would I care about your opinion?

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[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
First of all “bulking up” is not a method or even a goal, for fuck’s sake. It is merely a consequence of eating a caloric surplus to gain bodyweight while (usually) lifting weights, thats all.

Secondly, MOST people reading this site have wretched potential, and should avoid the idea of “bulking up” altogether. You are most likely not prof X or someone who can someday step on stage carrying enough size and development - and if you WERE you would realize it in your first 1-2 years of training. Eat a slight surplus, track your weight change and add weight to the bar = gain muscle with some fat. Hold the size gained till you have some density and then lean out slowly = you can add 15-20 pounds of muscle to your frame. If you want to call that “bulking up” feel free to do that.

Thirdly, the fact is that most people who have added well over 55-60 pounds of lean mass after puberty allowed themselves to bulk up in the initial stages of their development - thats a far cry from saying that the best way for you to gain muscle is to bulk up since that assumes that you HAVE the potential to gain and keep significant size by allowing yourself to bulk up and then lean out.

In conclusion, allow yourself to “bulk up” ONLY if you know you are young enough
AND have the genetic inclination to hold on to size while dieting down
AND the frame to not look fat in everyday clothes after gaining 30-40 pounds of bodyweight (narrow clavicles and wide hips = a LOT of grief while you’re gaining bodyweight) unless you have the patience to build heavy deltoids over the next 10-12 years or so.
AND if you have the “add weight to the bar” mindset
AND if you have a clue how to make your muscles grow (understand movements within your first year or so of training).

if you satisfy most or all of these conditions, bulking up naturally is a possible solution to try and gain as much size as your body will allow you. [/quote]

THIS post right here is put in a way that is just…brilliant. Good post.

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[quote]hawaiilifterMike wrote:
To properly bulk, visit and eat at fast food restaurants daily, it helped me get to 247lbs very quickly.[/quote]

…at 99.99% bf I assume?

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[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
forlife wrote:
I was using myself as an example of a broader observation. Guys who start lifting later in life often get a bad rap in this forum. You may be working hard in the gym like everyone else, but unless you weigh X pounds, your opinions are dismissed, or you are told to fuck off and go to another forum because you’re not a real bodybuilder.

Working hard… I’ll ask again, are you gaining muscle? How much have you gained in the last, say two years? I’ll listen to anyone who can show good results, regardless of age.

Besides, there is a over 35 forum… to me you just sound bitter that you didn’t get cracking at this when you were younger. I didn’t start until I was 26 myself, but I think I have pretty good genetics for this stuff, and I still have some years to grow some serious muscle. If you’ve never carried above average muscle mass, why would I care about your opinion?[/quote]

Some of the ‘regular’ folks logging in the Over 35 forum are stronger and make more strength progress than most on these boards.

I know PX and others speak generally about making size gains in their late 30’s, 40’s, and so-- he’s correct (I’m speaking from experience), but there are exceptions.

I happen to subscribe to the ‘you must eat more’ philosophy ESPECIALLY when you’re older because the hormones (for the vast majority) aren’t there in the quantities of the younger years. I wouldn’t have made near the progress that I’ve made in the past year if I stuck with the ‘lifting/eating to see my abs’ philosophy.

I’m not advocating to eat everything in sight, but just because you’re older doesn’t mean that thermodynamics change-- you still need excess calories/protein to grow, you just need to be smarter about it (and work a fuck ton harder).

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[quote]Bicep_craze wrote:
hawaiilifterMike wrote:
To properly bulk, visit and eat at fast food restaurants daily, it helped me get to 247lbs very quickly.

…at 99.99% bf I assume? [/quote]

No, only 40% by Tanita scales:)

Also by the latest reading I took at 202lbs it was 25%, = 151.5lbs LBM. I expect to be accused of taking AAS any day now;)

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You don’t get a bad rap. Its just that it doesn;t make sense for you to be as vocal as some of us who have spent years at this, thats all. And it irks a few, while the rest ignore it.

If you’re doing your best to put on size, and physique development is your goal and you respect and watch the bigger guys in the gym and learn and get inspried, in my book you are a bodybuilder. That 65 year old guy in the yoda posing pants ain;t very big, but he is also a bodybuilder - at least in my book.

That said, your opinion may not be worth as much as you think it should to someone in his 20’s or early 30’s trying to gain significant size - UNLESS you have managed to do the same at your age despite starting late in life - in which case your opinion will be worth a LOT more than someone who did the same albeit at a younger age.

If you want to be recognized/respected for your efforts, you are - so enough of the validation and self-assertion. But for most people here, gaining size is the goal and while you MAY be well qualified to give advice (and i for one think you are someone worth listening to at least once in a while), you are not yet an obviously credible source of information at this point.

Finally, based on what I can see in your pictures, you are short-selling yourself based on your visible potential. YOu have NOT yet seen the light and have a long way to go before you come close to realizing your own potential.

[quote]forlife wrote:
I was using myself as an example of a broader observation. Guys who start lifting later in life often get a bad rap in this forum. You may be working hard in the gym like everyone else, but unless you weigh X pounds, your opinions are dismissed, or you are told to fuck off and go to another forum because you’re not a real bodybuilder.[/quote]

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[quote]hawaiilifterMike wrote:
To properly bulk, visit and eat at fast food restaurants daily, it helped me get to 247lbs very quickly.[/quote]

PICS!

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[quote]hawaiilifterMike wrote:
Bicep_craze wrote:
hawaiilifterMike wrote:
To properly bulk, visit and eat at fast food restaurants daily, it helped me get to 247lbs very quickly.

…at 99.99% bf I assume?

No, only 40% by Tanita scales:)

Also by the latest reading I took at 202lbs it was 25%, = 151.5lbs LBM. I expect to be accused of taking AAS any day now;)[/quote]

I don’t wanna be an asshole by any means. But uh, why don’t you just add a slight caloric surplus to your diet? Why eat ‘as much as you can’ while gaining massive amounts of fat? Doesn’t make sense. Being a 250lbs lardass isn’t exactly good in my book. I used to have a similar school of thought, but ending up having to cut down on end after eating massive amounts of foods (Whatever massive means for you)is no freaking joke. Not everybody is the same. I have a slower metabolism then most for example.

So…why in earth should I eat excessivley? To gain 2 lbs of bodymass in a month and gain 20000000000000lbs of fat? Not a good trade off I think. I know that everybody has to start from somewhere but…150lb of lbm? Man eh I’m pretty sure you could have gained a lot more lbm till now if you had used a more intelligent approach towards your eating habits. Read some articles and THEN post anything. Hell I don’t know shit about nutrition but I’m talking from experience. Just saying.

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[quote]Bicep_craze wrote:

I don’t wanna be an asshole by any means. But uh, why don’t you just add a slight caloric surplus to your diet? Why eat ‘as much as you can’ while gaining massive amounts of fat? Doesn’t make sense. Being a 250lbs lardass isn’t exactly good in my book. I used to have a similar school of thought, but ending up having to cut down on end after eating massive amounts of foods (Whatever massive means for you)is no freaking joke. Not everybody is the same. I have a slower metabolism then most for example.

So…why in earth should I eat excessivley? To gain 2 lbs of bodymass in a month and gain 20000000000000lbs of fat? Not a good trade off I think. I know that everybody has to start from somewhere but…150lb of lbm? Man eh I’m pretty sure you could have gained a lot more lbm till now if you had used a more intelligent approach towards your eating habits. Read some articles and THEN post anything. Hell I don’t know shit about nutrition but I’m talking from experience. Just saying.[/quote]

I will work on increasing LBM to a more respectable level. (As a side note, one of the problems I have is reading TOO many articles and books but not applying any of it, which defeated the purpose of reading the material in the first place):frowning:

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[quote]hawaiilifterMike wrote:
Bicep_craze wrote:

I don’t wanna be an asshole by any means. But uh, why don’t you just add a slight caloric surplus to your diet? Why eat ‘as much as you can’ while gaining massive amounts of fat? Doesn’t make sense. Being a 250lbs lardass isn’t exactly good in my book. I used to have a similar school of thought, but ending up having to cut down on end after eating massive amounts of foods (Whatever massive means for you)is no freaking joke. Not everybody is the same. I have a slower metabolism then most for example.

So…why in earth should I eat excessivley? To gain 2 lbs of bodymass in a month and gain 20000000000000lbs of fat? Not a good trade off I think. I know that everybody has to start from somewhere but…150lb of lbm? Man eh I’m pretty sure you could have gained a lot more lbm till now if you had used a more intelligent approach towards your eating habits. Read some articles and THEN post anything. Hell I don’t know shit about nutrition but I’m talking from experience. Just saying.

I will work on increasing LBM to a more respectable level. (As a side note, one of the problems I have is reading TOO many articles and books but not applying any of it, which defeated the purpose of reading the material in the first place):frowning:
[/quote]

Now you’re talking. Reading less and apply what you have learnt is much better then reading a lot and don’t apply shit. Just keep that in mind and chances are you’ll be fine. Best of luck.

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[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
You don’t get a bad rap. Its just that it doesn;t make sense for you to be as vocal as some of us who have spent years at this, thats all. And it irks a few, while the rest ignore it.

If you’re doing your best to put on size, and physique development is your goal and you respect and watch the bigger guys in the gym and learn and get inspried, in my book you are a bodybuilder. That 65 year old guy in the yoda posing pants ain;t very big, but he is also a bodybuilder - at least in my book.

That said, your opinion may not be worth as much as you think it should to someone in his 20’s or early 30’s trying to gain significant size - UNLESS you have managed to do the same at your age despite starting late in life - in which case your opinion will be worth a LOT more than someone who did the same albeit at a younger age.

If you want to be recognized/respected for your efforts, you are - so enough of the validation and self-assertion. But for most people here, gaining size is the goal and while you MAY be well qualified to give advice (and i for one think you are someone worth listening to at least once in a while), you are not yet an obviously credible source of information at this point.

Finally, based on what I can see in your pictures, you are short-selling yourself based on your visible potential. YOu have NOT yet seen the light and have a long way to go before you come close to realizing your own potential.

forlife wrote:
I was using myself as an example of a broader observation. Guys who start lifting later in life often get a bad rap in this forum. You may be working hard in the gym like everyone else, but unless you weigh X pounds, your opinions are dismissed, or you are told to fuck off and go to another forum because you’re not a real bodybuilder.

[/quote]

I’ve told him that before, especially when he claimed to be using TBT (at least I think that was him) and his results over the past couple of years he has been here seem to show exactly what I was talking about.

I grew up listening to the guys in their 30’s and 40’s…but all of them had been training for years and LOOKED LIKE IT.

It is like some of these people hate to take advice from people even when they prove through their own results that they should have listened.

Someone just starting at the age of 36 is a beginner. Until they build some serious size or have some results to show for their effort, I will never understand this desire to GIVE advice when they should be taking more than they give.

As far as the “bodybuilder” title, I personally believe OTHER PEOPLE are the ones who label you as that. If no one is constantly pointing out how fucking muscular you are no matter what you wear, then you probably shouldn’t expect to be considered one.

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Also, Forlife, you were asked how much you weigh, how much you have gained and the length of time you have been training.

If you are going to dance around that question, then why argue your relevance to this degree in a bodybuilding forum?

Stats?

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[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
It’s simple. You find your maintenance level. Then you eat more than that and lift hard.
If you start getting too fluffy, cut back a couple hundred kcal or so.
If the gains are coming too slow, add a couple hundred kcal on.[/quote]

THERE IT IS!!!

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Forlife, go ahead and call yourself a bodybuilder. just don’t expect anyone else to.

and regarding genetics, It should be stating the obvious, but NO ONE knows there genetics at the start, and MOST people who lift weights don’t know what the hell they are doing in the gym, so the best bet is to train and eat like you can gain enormous size(and give advice as such).
If you’re getting too fat(lightbulb!!) dial back the food a little bit. not gaining weight? EAT MORE! It’s not rocket science, just feel it out.

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[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Sound advice for the most part, even if you’re trolling lol. The problem is there is no accurate established or even ballpark estimate for “maintenance” since your energy output chases your input.

Headhunter wrote:

Lift, do A LOT of aerobic training, and try eating a very tiny amount above maintenance. Hopefully, you won’t trigger the fat storage part of the primitive brain, is all I can say.

I took your advice and this is what I look like, WHERE DID I GO WRONG OH GOD!!!

[/quote]

Very tiny is way too general too and an understatement at best. Hell, Shugart says to start 1000 cals over maintenance.

I say overshoot a bit and scale back as you see how it goes. Your entire physiology isn’t going to be rewired abruptly or even real quickly.

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forlife is giving a bad rap to us old guys. I could care less if you call me a bodybuilder. I know I’m making more progress than 98% of the 20 something year olds on this board and have now built a pretty good base. I didn’t get started till my early 30s. Quit ya bitching and using age as an excuse. None of us ole guys wanna hear it.

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[quote]randman wrote:
forlife is giving a bad rap to us old guys. I could care less if you call me a bodybuilder. I know I’m making more progress than 98% of the 20 something year olds on this board and have now built a pretty good base. I didn’t get started till my early 30s. Quit ya bitching and using age as an excuse. None of us ole guys wanna hear it.[/quote]

Most of the people I would consider “serious” in the gym are in their late 30’s and 40’s. It is rare now to see someone in their 20’s truly going all out in the gym and looking like it. I saw maybe two people in the gym today in that age range (mid-late 20’s) who really looked impressive. Everyone else was just staring and going through the motions. There is one guy in his 40’s getting ready for the upcoming NPC and I haven’t seen anyone who looks like him outside of in the magazines in a long time.

I think Forlife was trying to represent all of the people who lift but make very little progress as if age is the reason why. Unless someone is in their 50’s at least, I wouldn’t expect so much of a slow down in metabolism that VISIBLE gains in muscle mass that signified hard work wouldn’t be apparent.

People blame everything from being a hardgainer to being too old for their lack of progress…everything but themselves.

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BBers are guys who walk in the gym and know it. They also see how others know it. You are the biggest or one of the biggest in the gym and push a shit load of weight. Being labaled a BBer is not done by meeting specific criteria, you just are one or not. There is no “to do” list, you gotta be swole.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
randman wrote:
forlife is giving a bad rap to us old guys. I could care less if you call me a bodybuilder. I know I’m making more progress than 98% of the 20 something year olds on this board and have now built a pretty good base. I didn’t get started till my early 30s. Quit ya bitching and using age as an excuse. None of us ole guys wanna hear it.

Most of the people I would consider “serious” in the gym are in their late 30’s and 40’s. It is rare now to see someone in their 20’s truly going all out in the gym and looking like it. I saw maybe two people in the gym today in that age range (mid-late 20’s) who really looked impressive. Everyone else was just staring and going through the motions. There is one guy in his 40’s getting ready for the upcoming NPC and I haven’t seen anyone who looks like him outside of in the magazines in a long time.

I think Forlife was trying to represent all of the people who lift but make very little progress as if age is the reason why. Unless someone is in their 50’s at least, I wouldn’t expect so much of a slow down in metabolism that VISIBLE gains in muscle mass that signified hard work wouldn’t be apparent.

People blame everything from being a hardgainer to being too old for their lack of progress…everything but themselves.[/quote]

It probably warrants a whole other thread…but as I have posted before in other threads I literally WASTED 7 or 8 years of my MOST PRIME being nothing but lazy. Not only that, but I had a real asset in a friend of mine who was training HARD and HEAVY. I got so lame that he quit training with me and I just floundered on my own…

Just as I got close to turning 30 I realized what a tool I had been, wasting my time. Prime time and it is GONE. NEVER TO COME BACK.

I actually credit X a bit just BECAUSE of his demeanor towards lazy bastards. He e-kicked my ass whether he realized it or not. You other guys can call me a fanboy or whatever, I don’t care, I’m over 30 and have to give credit where credit is due. I still stand by what I said earlier in this thread because it has worked for me, but I have to be extremely dilligent to keep the fat off. When I was 19 and didn’t even “workout” let alone seriously train I could drink 2 cases of beer a week and eat nothing but pizza and weighed 140. Last Christmas I slacked on “working out” for the end of Nov. and all of December and gained close to 20 lbs. of fat…(the other precursor to my obsession).

Anyways, every time I push out one more rep or add an extra 5 pounds and don’t even want to but know I need to I HAVE to, I have to say that the only key is to give it everything you have in the gym. I think of my friend and some of the elite guys here watching me quit early, I think of MYSELF watching me quit early and I do one more, I put on another 5 lbs.

I’m not huge, I’m not an elite PL, but 6 months of solid gains, 2x the strength I had this time last year and I feel some solid goals for October. I’m not eating to bulk, I’m eating to get stronger and bulking is a side effect and for me it seems that so is fat loss.

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I agree with the Professor. Alot of guys want to get big until they find out the work that they have to put in. I have witnessed this first hand. I’ve even had one younger guy tell me that it’s hard before switching to a lighter workout. At least he admitted it, most just make excuses. For me it’s just a passion that I’ve had since I was a kid and it doesn’t even seem like work. I don’t miss meals and I very rarely miss a workout.