[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
trav123456 wrote:
So can we see an example of what you would consider a perfect rep?
At around the 2:55 minutes point. 2 reps with 405, pretty close to the max I could do at that time but you can still notice the fast turnaround.
This may be my in-expertise but I really didn’t notice anything different than what I would call a normal rep… I have a lot to learn… [/quote]
It’s the turnaround speed. I had 405 on the bar and at the time my mas was 420. The key point is the fast turnaround despite using a near max weight. My reps with 60-85% are much faster, but even with max weight I attempt to make a fast turnaround.
For those looking to increase say their bench 1rm rather than hypertrophy, would this still be an ideal way to train? It seems like one would benefit from the activation and increased power at the low end. However, it is also more taxing. So would one training for strength use the “perfect rep” in training but not when testing for a 1rm?
What about powerlifters that have to pause at the bottom of their bench in competition - does that change how would apply the use of a “perfect rep”?
Tried the fast-turnaround technique for the first time today, it feels pretty awesome. Got a bench PR too. When I was doing the feel sets, it felt like I was jumping off of the bench because of the fast bar speed. It seems counter-intuitive to pull the bar towards you near the bottom, but it definitely has an impact on the force you can output on that rep.
Coach,
I have a question about performing the perfect rep. You said to use your antagonist muscles muscles at the stretched position of the working muscle and then to explode with maximum force through the concentric phase.
When doing this today on incline barbell bench, I felt like I was literally just letting the bar drop toward my chest, putting it in a dead stop just before hitting my chest and then accelerating the bar as fast upward as possible. My concern is that performing the rep in this fashion feels as though I am performing nearly no work at all on the eccentric phase of the rep. Should I attempt to control the bar downward more slowly and only pull with my back just inches before reaching my chest?
[quote]Marther wrote:
Tried the fast-turnaround technique for the first time today, it feels pretty awesome. Got a bench PR too. When I was doing the feel sets, it felt like I was jumping off of the bench because of the fast bar speed. It seems counter-intuitive to pull the bar towards you near the bottom, but it definitely has a impact the force you can output on that rep.[/quote]
Yes, and that’s the thing. The perfect rep is not easy to illustrate by video because a lot of stuff is actually not seen (like pulling with antagonist for example). So a rep might look like just another rep while being miles away from it.
If I could only use pro bodybuilders to illustrate what I mean, Dorian would be the only near perfect example. I would just like to see more turnaround speed.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Coach,
I have a question about performing the perfect rep. You said to use your antagonist muscles muscles at the stretched position of the working muscle and then to explode with maximum force through the concentric phase.
When doing this today on incline barbell bench, I felt like I was literally just letting the bar drop toward my chest, putting it in a dead stop just before hitting my chest and then accelerating the bar as fast upward as possible. My concern is that performing the rep in this fashion feels as though I am performing nearly no work at all on the eccentric phase of the rep. Should I attempt to control the bar downward more slowly and only pull with my back just inches before reaching my chest?[/quote]
Good question. I had the same experience yesterday. I tried to focus on turnaround time for the following:
OHP - I was trying to pull the bar down and then reverse as fast as possible. Hard to imagine it was work since gravity was very helpful.
Pull-ups. I really focused on reversing as soon as I hit the bottom. Normally I pull up fast and lower slower till I’m fully extended then try to explode up. Yesterday I felt more like I was letting myself drop into the extended position and then exploding up as soon as I felt like I hit bottom.
Did some walking lunges, definitely did them faster, going down as fast as I could without hitting my knee to the ground. Balance is a limiting factor here.
Bicep curls / CG Bench Press: I normally do curls with dumbells but decided the preacher bench with an e-z curl bar would be best for the turnaround. On my last set, definitely saw the benefit of twitch reps as I couldn’t get the weight up through a full range of motion.
CG is just built for this technique… Again, felt like gravity was doing the work on the way down but the turn around felt more explosive because of the muscle stretch.
Overall, I see the wisdom in learning the movement first before trying to focus on the turn-around. For example, I’m pretty solid doing pull-ups - I don’t swing a lot. So I found it easy to work on the turnaround. I think if I had tried to do this when I first started doing pull-ups, I’d be swinging all over the place. Also, preacher curls were kind of awkward since I haven’t done them in years.
i tried to do this today and got a bench PR, i have a question, when trying to move the bar as fast as i can if say i get 7 explosive reps, and i feel the 8th will be a slow grinder should i just stop the set there or carry on?
I think a lot about the rep comes down to what CT was saying even a few weeks ago… the intention to move the weight explosively… it’s only normal that it might not look that different to someone observing from the outside (especially when it gets heavier), but to the person performing the rep, if you really focus mentally on that last portion of the eccentric leading into the explosive concentric, the rep is something you can feel for sure. And I don’t think I’ve quite made it to the perfect rep yet, but as I’ve really been focusing on it since it’s been brought up, and I can feel improvement already…
CT,
Since you wrote this I’ve had the opportunity to test things out with both pressing and pulling movements with what I think is good success. I set a PR with my previous 3RM and got 6 reps today on incline presses. In particular, I found that focusing on the antagonistic muscles (i.e. pulling down to the chest) very helpful.
However, with pulling movements, focusing on the antagonist wasn’t as clear cut. For example, on rowing movements, I felt that I should be focusing on pressing or focused on my chest during the negative portion of the rep. When I tried this, it felt like I was losing control of the weight and didn’t stay as tight throughout the movement. Simply put, focusing on the antagonist didn’t seem as intuitive as it did during pressing movements.
Any recommendations for these principles when it comes to back training? Or has anyone else had similar experiences and found solutions?
[quote]Kerley wrote:
i tried to do this today and got a bench PR, i have a question, when trying to move the bar as fast as i can if say i get 7 explosive reps, and i feel the 8th will be a slow grinder should i just stop the set there or carry on?[/quote]
The way I look at this is select in advance the number of reps you will be doing for your sets. For example ‘Today on the bench press I perform sets of 5’ and you gradually work up to the max weight you can do for 5. This means that the last set it is impossible to complete more than 5 reps (obviously that 5th rep will be slower).
Obviously as fatigue sets in or as the weight gets heavier, actual speed will not be that high. But the INTENT to accelerate as much as possible with any given weight is what counts.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Kerley wrote:
i tried to do this today and got a bench PR, i have a question, when trying to move the bar as fast as i can if say i get 7 explosive reps, and i feel the 8th will be a slow grinder should i just stop the set there or carry on?
The way I look at this is select in advance the number of reps you will be doing for your sets. For example ‘Today on the bench press I perform sets of 5’ and you gradually work up to the max weight you can do for 5. This means that the last set it is impossible to complete more than 5 reps (obviously that 5th rep will be slower).
Obviously as fatigue sets in or as the weight gets heavier, actual speed will not be that high. But the INTENT to accelerate as much as possible with any given weight is what counts.[/quote]
So is this whole idea similar to what Chad Waterbury has been talking about for awhile now, except you keep the set going when you slow down instead of stopping the set as speed decreases?
What makes this method better, more muscle damage?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Kerley wrote:
i tried to do this today and got a bench PR, i have a question, when trying to move the bar as fast as i can if say i get 7 explosive reps, and i feel the 8th will be a slow grinder should i just stop the set there or carry on?
The way I look at this is select in advance the number of reps you will be doing for your sets. For example ‘Today on the bench press I perform sets of 5’ and you gradually work up to the max weight you can do for 5. This means that the last set it is impossible to complete more than 5 reps (obviously that 5th rep will be slower).
Obviously as fatigue sets in or as the weight gets heavier, actual speed will not be that high. But the INTENT to accelerate as much as possible with any given weight is what counts.[/quote]
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Kerley wrote:
i tried to do this today and got a bench PR, i have a question, when trying to move the bar as fast as i can if say i get 7 explosive reps, and i feel the 8th will be a slow grinder should i just stop the set there or carry on?
The way I look at this is select in advance the number of reps you will be doing for your sets. For example ‘Today on the bench press I perform sets of 5’ and you gradually work up to the max weight you can do for 5. This means that the last set it is impossible to complete more than 5 reps (obviously that 5th rep will be slower).
Obviously as fatigue sets in or as the weight gets heavier, actual speed will not be that high. But the INTENT to accelerate as much as possible with any given weight is what counts.[/quote]
In some of your programmes you said something like “work up to 3RM , then work up to 1RM”
does this mean start with sets of 3 from 70%, work up to max 3, then add weight and perform 1 rep and repeat til you can (probably will take no more than 1-3 more sets) ?
when is this a good idea to use this? Would a regular “ramp up to 3 reps” workout turn out to be much more taxing if this is done ?
[quote]andrew88 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Kerley wrote:
i tried to do this today and got a bench PR, i have a question, when trying to move the bar as fast as i can if say i get 7 explosive reps, and i feel the 8th will be a slow grinder should i just stop the set there or carry on?
The way I look at this is select in advance the number of reps you will be doing for your sets. For example ‘Today on the bench press I perform sets of 5’ and you gradually work up to the max weight you can do for 5. This means that the last set it is impossible to complete more than 5 reps (obviously that 5th rep will be slower).
Obviously as fatigue sets in or as the weight gets heavier, actual speed will not be that high. But the INTENT to accelerate as much as possible with any given weight is what counts.
So is this whole idea similar to what Chad Waterbury has been talking about for awhile now, except you keep the set going when you slow down instead of stopping the set as speed decreases?
What makes this method better, more muscle damage?
[/quote]
I would also be interested to see your answer to this as I am currently using Chad’s methodology. Sometimes I find it hard not to try and grind out an extra rep (like I am wussing out.) But my numbers are improving so it seems to be working.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
So I guess these are also perfect reps:
If I could only use pro bodybuilders to illustrate what I mean, Dorian would be the only near perfect example. I would just like to see more turnaround speed. [/quote]
just thought id point this out because its gonna really confuse some people
i also thought that video did look pretty good for explosiveness except there should have been more explosive/turnaround speed especially on the earlier lighter sets.
The big problem with this example is the audio
I LOL-ed hard when the narrator who had that voice as if he was in the latest movie trailer said something along the lines of “dorian has textbook execution, he lowers in control and lifts the weight in a ‘NON EXPLOSIVE’ manner” when he is actually accelerating/trying to accelerate the bar a fair bit especially on the later near max weight incline bench sets… i think, i could be completly wrong lol
So is this whole idea similar to what Chad Waterbury has been talking about for awhile now, except you keep the set going when you slow down instead of stopping the set as speed decreases?
What makes this method better, more muscle damage?
[/quote]
It’s more muscle damage from the fast turn-around and this method also allows you to recruit more muscle fibres on the rest of the rep so will stimulate more growth through that too.
I think that both Thib and Waterbury are advocating that you stop when you slow down for the same reason - any reps after your nervous system becomes fatigued will favour the use of the slower twitch fibres while further fatiguing the nervous system. You need a fresh activated nervous system to produce maximum force and therefore you need a fresh activated nervous system to stimulate maximum growth.
Hey CT,
First off I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to teach those of us on T-Nation who are dedicated to increasing their training knowledge. I like you present information to us and allow us to think for ourselves instead of presenting cookie cutter programs. My question is
Would you consider the perfect rep to be the one you describe in your high-threshold muscle building book…contracting the muscle you are working, controlling the first 3/4 of the eccentric and then accelerating the bar the last 1/4 of the movement to increase turnaround speed?
[/quote]