The Perfect Rep for Dips, Pull-ups, etc

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
1

I feel like I read somewhere that you answered this but I couldn’t find the thread from the search so I apologized if this is a FAQ that you are tired of answering:

To me it seems easy to apply the perfect rep to just about anything involving a free weight, but do you adhere to this strategy for Dips and Chinups and exercises that involve pushing or pulling your own body weight.

Also, this is probably another FAQ, but after we run out of the Biotest flavoring for the protocol, what is something we can use to easily flavor the protocol. I was thinking Crystal Light water flavoring.

2

I have read pretty much everything CT has written here and I have not seen any discussing about dips or chins/pull-ups. I am interested this as well because I am currently doing both of those 2 times a week with a procedure:

  • first ramp to max. 3,
  • then reduce weight 10-15 % and do 5x5.

So far going great (strength has gone up and so is my muscle size) although I am starting to think this is too much volume. I get usually 10-12 sets. But I only do one exercise per bodypart.

Anyway for dips I have not gone down superfast because it might be bad for the elbows and shoulders. What I do is go all the way down controlled but still moderately fast and with no stop at the bottom super explosively up. So the basic Perfect Rep protocal but just go down more controlled. Same for chins because you cant really drop down fast, lock your elbows and not suffer any injuries :stuck_out_tongue:

for pull-downs I have experimented with two different styles:
a) go fast down BUT dont go all the way down (dont lock your elbows, stop couple of inches before lockdown)
b) go all the way down controlled, lock your elbows and accelerate up. so controlled down, lock your elbows, accelerate furiously up. This style doesnt have the fast turnaround component which is critical in Perfect Rep.

I dont know which one is better but I have done a) for ramping to my max 3 and b) for the 5x5 sets.

Not very useful post but at least I now have a one post here lol

3

Why would they be different from any other exercise?

The only difficulty I’ve noticed is a bit of swinging with pull-ups, which is somewhat relieved by holding a dumbbell between your feet instead of using the weight belt.

4

well obviously the concept is the same. I just personally feel uncomfortable dropping down fast AND locking your elbows holding almost 90lbs (40kg) extra weight in your waist. Other than locking the elbows, I do follow the perfect rep protocol. It is my understanding that in the perfect Perfect Rep you should lock elbows (look at the bench press video and CTs comment how Kevin has the tendency to NOT lock and they have been working on that). I guess it doesnt matter so much though and common sense is still adviced :slight_smile: The main point is still to ACCELERATE as fast as humanly possible.

5

here is how I do the pull-ups (Tuesday 5th). Not sure what turnaround technique to use so I don’t apply any particular. But I’m pretty sure the drop would be at the top of the lift not near the bottom. I’ve seen people let go the bar, even do a clap or whatever, free fall for a few inches then grab it and go back up explosively. I might try that in a few weeks. For now I just try to get more explosive with pull-ups, it’s not something that I am accustomed to.

I put a pad on the bar and I make sure the chest touches it as fast and hard as possible every time. Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness

6

I use both pull ups with varying angles and dips also during the week. I have switched over using the “perfect rep” format myself, going 3 reps sometimes 8-10 sets for both movements. I go until I start to slow down then I stop. I LOVE IT. People have asked me why?

Funny thing was, we had a recent cold spell and I struggled big time after 5 sets and I just blew it off. I hate cold weather. Anyway, I am gonna run with it for a while and see what happens.

7

I feel fairly certain that locking should only be done when pressing. Note that when pressing the lock does not occur in conjunction with the drop. When pulling the lock will however occur at the end of the drop, which surely is much too hard on the joints. That would mean that the turnaround should be performed just before the elbows lock. Anyway, that’s the way I do it. Once you get the timing right once or twice it’s not really that hard.

8

That makes sense captaincalvert, i’m gonna do that myself…

Alternatively, Paused Reps (2-3 sec rest in the locked out position) might be the way to go?

I would love to see what Thibs think of this…

9

i believe the perfect rep signifies the turnaround speed. so it can be a full or half rep, it’ll still be “perfect” if the time between the eccentric and concentric is minimized. i do full chins (no weight) and as i go down nearer to the bottom i slow my descent. i sometimes pause, sometimes i just decend slowly, but either way the turnaround to concentric is as fast as i can. once i start grinding reps i stop the set and recover.

if CT comes, perhaps he could answer. but you really should never be dropping, you should be able to catch yourself at any time in the rep, or your using too much weight. remember your pullin with your back first, arms second. pull the scapula back to initiate movement and the joints should be fine

10

There is a video somewhere (think it was the "experimental arm workout), where he shows how to do dips: do down, then perform a “twitch”, which is a micro-rep (move up an inch, drop down from that), followed immediately by an explosive full rep.
On the “I,BODYBUILDER - PHASE 1” thread, CT says how important he thinks these twitches are

11

[quote]xilinx wrote:
There is a video somewhere (think it was the "experimental arm workout), where he shows how to do dips: do down, then perform a “twitch”, which is a micro-rep (move up an inch, drop down from that), followed immediately by an explosive full rep.
On the “I,BODYBUILDER - PHASE 1” thread, CT says how important he thinks these twitches are[/quote]

I tried Perfect Rep yesterday with a Fast Turnaround. Did ChinUps, medium grip, just bodyweight and aim was to pull up til bar touched sternum. It felt amazing - slower negative to the SRP and then a fast but controlled drop to full extension and explode to the top. Body was almost parallel when touching the bar to sternum, the contraction in lats was intense, next day, feelin’ it…

12

I have trouble getting into any kind of groove with pulling movements and only three reps; I’ll usually hit the 4-6 rep mark and end up ramping up with sets of 5 instead of three. It seems to work well.

13

[quote]xilinx wrote:
There is a video somewhere (think it was the "experimental arm workout), where he shows how to do dips: do down, then perform a “twitch”, which is a micro-rep (move up an inch, drop down from that), followed immediately by an explosive full rep.
On the “I,BODYBUILDER - PHASE 1” thread, CT says how important he thinks these twitches are[/quote]

Twitch reps are an all together different protocol than the Perfect Rep.

14

Has anyone noticed any shoulder pain with heavy dips using the P rep? I have been doing them for a while and have recently lowered the weight and upped the speed to use the p rep protecall. I use a weight belt with 80lbs on it and go down to 90 degree bend in my elbows. Now my shoulders hurt in the back of my shoulder above the scapula. Almost feels like a rotator cuff thing. Never had this before.

Any ideas on whats up?

15

[quote]stickel62 wrote:
Has anyone noticed any shoulder pain with heavy dips using the P rep? I have been doing them for a while and have recently lowered the weight and upped the speed to use the p rep protecall. I use a weight belt with 80lbs on it and go down to 90 degree bend in my elbows. Now my shoulders hurt in the back of my shoulder above the scapula. Almost feels like a rotator cuff thing. Never had this before.

Any ideas on whats up? [/quote]

Maybe try not getting a “bounce” off your connective tissue. I think you can relax and drop to use the stretch-shortening reflex but not so you actually feel an impact at the very end. See if that’s better.

16

[quote]Brian Smith wrote:

[quote]stickel62 wrote:
Has anyone noticed any shoulder pain with heavy dips using the P rep? I have been doing them for a while and have recently lowered the weight and upped the speed to use the p rep protecall. I use a weight belt with 80lbs on it and go down to 90 degree bend in my elbows. Now my shoulders hurt in the back of my shoulder above the scapula. Almost feels like a rotator cuff thing. Never had this before.

Any ideas on whats up? [/quote]

Maybe try not getting a “bounce” off your connective tissue. I think you can relax and drop to use the stretch-shortening reflex but not so you actually feel an impact at the very end. See if that’s better.[/quote]

tried it today for my workout. it helped and actually made it harder not getting the bounce. great tip. thank you

17

[quote]Mod Brian wrote:

[quote]xilinx wrote:
There is a video somewhere (think it was the "experimental arm workout), where he shows how to do dips: do down, then perform a “twitch”, which is a micro-rep (move up an inch, drop down from that), followed immediately by an explosive full rep.
On the “I,BODYBUILDER - PHASE 1” thread, CT says how important he thinks these twitches are[/quote]

Twitch reps are an all together different protocol than the Perfect Rep.[/quote]

Than I don’t understand what he means, on page 2 of that thread:

captaincalvert wrote:
Hi coach,

I just watched “monday” and “tuesday”, and noticed that there were no SRP twitch turnarounds. I’ve been practicing like crazy ever since I read about them. Why aren’t they in the program? Are they saved for later?

I apologize if they’re there later in the week. I prefer not to watch that far ahead. I’d like to digest the first couple of routines first. It keeps my head clear.

At the time of filming this video we had not realized how important SRP turnarounds were. This realization came when I experimented with twitch reps.

That having been said, the simple fact that you are trying to explode during the concentric WILL overload the stretch position.

As I mentioned earlier, all the programs we publish should basically be seen much like grades in a school system… before moving on to the next level you must master the stuff adapted to your level.

This first program is all about learning how to autoregulate, to ramp up and to lift explosively.

That having been said, if you already are practicing SRP turnarounds, keep doing them.

18

[quote]stickel62 wrote:

[quote]Brian Smith wrote:

[quote]stickel62 wrote:
Has anyone noticed any shoulder pain with heavy dips using the P rep? I have been doing them for a while and have recently lowered the weight and upped the speed to use the p rep protecall. I use a weight belt with 80lbs on it and go down to 90 degree bend in my elbows. Now my shoulders hurt in the back of my shoulder above the scapula. Almost feels like a rotator cuff thing. Never had this before.

Any ideas on whats up? [/quote]

Maybe try not getting a “bounce” off your connective tissue. I think you can relax and drop to use the stretch-shortening reflex but not so you actually feel an impact at the very end. See if that’s better.[/quote]

tried it today for my workout. it helped and actually made it harder not getting the bounce. great tip. thank you[/quote]

No problem. I’m not sure of CT’s opinion on it, but I would think that stopping before the bounce is a better turnover because your muscle fibers have to switch more from eccentric to concentric action. The bounce seems like an interruption of both contractions.

BTW, by avoiding a bounce, I’m not saying that you should avoid full-range reps or lock-outs, just you could get your muscles tight at the bottom of the stretch.