so straps are no good huh? shucks
[quote]MikeSh wrote:
with all due respect to you and travis mash, he is not a high level olympic lifter (if you mean international level, as he is in powerlifting). He is an incredible athlete and ridiculously strong, but not at the olympic lifts (comparitively). At 105+ he would need to be snatching AT LEAST 375 and c&j AT LEAST 450 to be considered international (those are actually very low estimates, and i dont think he even is near those).
in addition, if he does end up improving his lifts to the elite level (which i hope he does) it is very possible that he does this in spite of deadlifting rather than because of it. [/quote]
You are right of course. But I took this non-deadlifting stance to mean that you can’t achieve high results from any perspective while deadlifting. I believe that dl’s can hinder tech. and form and take you out of planned volume/intensity progressions. But I just wanted to point out that there are people who can clean and jerk 170+ and snatch 130+ while doing deadlifts. Not Olympic level, but I’d call that pretty high level.
[quote]GenSurg69 wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Stupid, yes.
- knee SLEEVES. they keep your knees warm. many people like to wear them while deadlifting.
Stupid? I’ve been around a few gym, and I’ve never ever seen anyone deadlift with knee sleeves or kneewraps, seeing how it is a back lift so I’d watch that stupid remark kid.
bomber221 wrote:
2) he is an olympic lifter. olympic lifters dont deadlift for the most part. but apparently he has chosen to care about his deadlift and its carryover from olympic lifting. deadlifting twice a week will ruin an olympic lifter. deadlifting heavy once a week will set back progress significantly.
Like I said, I know plenty of oly lifters and lifters who train oly style who squat, dead, etc 3 plus times a week. In fact, oly lifters squatting 3 x a week is pretty common…is that taxing?
Brad Gillingham wears Rehband knee sleeves for ALL of his Squatting, Deadlifting, and Power Cleaning (check his awesome video). I’ve seen MANY powerlifters wear knee sleeves when deadlifting. Since when is deadlifting a “Back” lift. It really depends on your build, limb length (upper and lower), and deadlift style.
[/quote]
Its true about how some builds put more strain on certain muscles. My build is awesome for deadlifting ,but sucks for bench. Benching for me is almost all chest despite the fact i use a CG 12 inches. The deadlift for me is almost all back.
I’m in. I pulled 405 whilst standing on 35’s last tuesday. I’m sure I can ramp up to 500 in a few months. In the last 3 months I went from 335 to 405, so If I can nail 500, then I’ve gone up 165lbs in less then a year 
And who says you can’t wrap your knees for deadlifting? I wrap my knees every so often for deadlifts, and as much as you all will say they don’t help, they do. Especially if I’m pulling Sumo (which I rarely do, usually as Assistance) wraps can help out a bunch.
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
GenSurg69 wrote:
Since when is deadlifting a “Back” lift. It really depends on your build, limb length (upper and lower), and deadlift style.
You must be a sumo guy. Otherwise how do you NOT consider it to be primarily a back lift?
[/quote]
LOL! yep…you are right. I am a sumo guy! LOL! Good call.
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
GenSurg69 wrote:
Since when is deadlifting a “Back” lift. It really depends on your build, limb length (upper and lower), and deadlift style.
You must be a sumo guy. Otherwise how do you NOT consider it to be primarily a back lift?
[/quote]
And of course, you ARE right. The deadlift IS considered to be primarily a back lift. I should have made the distinction between different deadlift styles involving the back to different degrees.
[quote]bomber221 wrote:
so people are claiming olympic lifters train the deadlift often. thats blatantly false with regards to international level lifters and top national level lifters. yea heavy squatting is taxing, but its a necessary part of an olympic lifters program. deadlifting takes away from time spent squatting heavy.
in olympic lifting everything revolves around leg and back strength. if you spend time doing both the classical lifts you will develop all the back strength you need and if you spend time squatting almost every workout you will develop the leg strength you need.
the rest is just adding in accessory exercises such as pull variations or good morning variations(both of which would mimic the classical lifts in technique) and overhead work. the goal would be to work on weak points in technique or strength. you then periodize to either increase volume, increase strength, or peak for a competition depending on what stage you are in.
take a look at some russian manuals on how they develop their lifters from a young age. they never do any deadlifting. it is a static strength exercise. most olympic lifters even do good mornings completely different than powerlifters do them. they do them much more explosively and mimic the finish on the second pull. they are firm believers in developing strength-speed as they call it. [/quote]
are you an international level olympic lifter?
Alright fellas, how’s everyone doing? I stopped deadlifting as much and started hack squats. Then I took a week off of lifting altogether. Today when I went to lift I added 20lbs to my dead for a PR of 425!
I finally hit 500 last week, even though my face went numb and i was blowing snot out of my nose. lol
5 10 205 age 16
[quote]defen21 wrote:
I finally hit 500 last week, even though my face went numb and i was blowing snot out of my nose. lol
5 10 205 age 16[/quote]
haha, got any pictures?
haha no it was for my testing in my weight training class at school
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Now I’m going to throw a curveball. No high level Oly lifter deadlifts heavy, except Travis Mash. He is working on doing PL, Oly, and bobsledding all at an elite level. The logs are at elitefts, and they’re awesome. He’s got a video of him snatching against bands, among other things. Somebody tell him he can’t do it. I dare you.[/quote]
High level? Hardly.
Asian olylifters deadlift 
mikesgym.org/newsletter/issues/APRIL%20ISSUE.pdf
?How much do you squat?? How many times do you hear this question? It is probably the next questiona lifter is asked after they are asked about their competition lifts. But why do we ask just about the squat, whynot the dead lift? After all you have to pull a weight first before you stand up with it. In the other parts of the
world you may be asked what your dead lift is along with your squat.
My introduction to the concept of regular dead lifting began in the summer of 2000. I received a stipendfrom the University of Cincinnati to attend advanced language studies in Nagoya, Japan at Nagoya ForeignLanguage University. Wanting to lift while I was in Nagoya I contacted the Japanese Weightlifting Association
and they gave me the name of Chikara Takahashi coach of the Meiden High School Weightlifting team in Nagoya.
Having almost 3 months to study in Nagoya I was able to spend many hours talking training with CoachTakahashi and other coaches and athletes who stopped by to visit and train. Being in close proximity to China
and Russia many of the coaches and athletes go to those two countries to train and be coached.
One of the interesting topics that came up regularly was ?Do American weightlifters dead lift much??
Outside of RDL?s I told them no. ?Why not?? At the time I really didn?t have an answer but as I observed the
training of different levels the athletes both male and femail from Jr. to Master I noticed almost everybody dead
lifted. Some of the athletes had quite impressive dead lifts. It wasn?t just dead lifts from the floor but off of
blocks from various heights targeting specific weak points. Another interesting thing I picked up on is Japanese
and Chinese lifters could dead lift what they squat or even exceed their squat max at times. I do want to clarifythat the dead lifts were done with a regular overhand grip. Some of the guys would do their deadlifts with strapsand some wouldn?t. If you have the grip strength then tape up your thumbs and give it try sans straps.
Curious I asked Coach Takahashi what was up with all the dead lifts. He replied that in Asia the dead lift
is viewed as a fundamental strength lift along with the squat; dead lifts are for base pulling strength, squats forstand up strength and press work for pressing strength. He said dead lifts help build and maintain ?Everydaystrength?. I had never heard that phrase before in English or Japanese; I understood the words but not the concept. Everyday strength he explained is strength you have day in and day out. To show me what he mean he
walked over to a bar loaded with 200k and dead lifted it with a flat back and little effort weighing only 67.5k at
52 years of age. ?I can do this any day of the week and more if I want?.
According to Coach Takahashi this focus on dead lifts and base strength work I was told was a concept
they picked up from the Chinese and Russians. The concept has also been accepted in other Asian countries besides Japan. The reason is some Asian lifters are not only shorter as a general rule but some Japanese have a
longer trunk with shorter legs resulting in weak leverage in regards to the 1st pull and so they develop their deadlifts to compensate for the weak leverage. Secondly if squats build stand up strength then they reasoned deadlifts build pulling strength provided a more complete strength base for a weightlifter.
One example of a Japanese weightlifter with exceptional base pulling strength is a lifter by the name ofNishimoto from Okinawa who held the Japanese national records at 108 and 105k with competition lifts of 180/
- He dead lifted 300x2, squatted 310k and pressed 150k. My training partner Toyotaka Murata an 85k lifter
I trained with (155/195) dead lifted up to and over 250k and snatch dead lifted around 200k.
Being the curious type I decided to add dead lifting to my training and see what would happen. I found itis possible to train and recover from dead lifting 4X a week. I woud DL 2x off the floor and 2x off blocks at the
transition of the 1st and 2nd pull. After three weeks or so I started noticing that cleans which had been a problem
in the past starting moving much smoother and my control of the lift improved. For me I was able to see a directlink between a stronger deadlift and the improvement in my clean results.
Returning to the States in August of 2000 to finish my senior year I really felt physically prepared, confident, and was looking forward to competing in ?01 Nationals. However a week before Christmas 20000 I was
7
hit head on by another driver resulting in blunt force trauma to my left knee (think sledgehammer to the knee),
lumber/hip problems and a torn muscles in my left shoulder.
After the wreck I really couldn?t put much power through my left knee and gave up trying to squat or do
any competition lifts but found I could dead lift. I started doing snatch and clean dead lifts 1x a week. In June of?01 the pain in my knee somewhat disappeared to the point I could front squat with out much pain. I front squatted 2x the first week and on the second week feeling my oats I decided to see what I could do for a double. Iworked up to 150K (pretty much pain free) and then did 180k for a single! 1 month later I front squatted 200kfor a single! This was without doing squats of any kind and only dead lifts for 6 months. It was a major shock tome; it didn?t make sense to me. How could I front squat 200k for a single without front squatting for 6 months
with a gimpy knee? Maybe there was something to this dead lift thing? This was massive paradigm shift for
me and really started me on a study of training techniques from around the world to see what kind of different
techniques and methodologies were being used and if they had application here in the US.
[quote]defen21 wrote:
haha no it was for my testing in my weight training class at school[/quote]
awesome that they actually have that at your school.
CoolColJ,
Good article. Good to see you back on these forums too.
Thanks for bringing up that very interesting article. A few ideas -
- As the article mentions, asians tend to have leverages suited for squatting and not particulary suited for deadlifted. So does this make the deadlift uniquely suited for asian olympic lifters?
2."Secondly if squats build stand up strength then they reasoned deadlifts build pulling strength provided a more complete strength base for a weightlifter. "
I would agree if we are talking about the stle of deadlift that is basicaly a clean pull without the shrug at the top, but it seems to me that when most people deadlift heavy there is much more back involvement than in a traditional first pull.
- In my opinion, those lifters mentioned do not posses deadlifts that are inconsistent with the strength of their lifts. If one can clean and jerk and jerk 450+, a 600lb deadlift should be easily within reach with little to no training.
[quote]MikeSh wrote:
Thanks for bringing up that very interesting article. A few ideas -
- As the article mentions, asians tend to have leverages suited for squatting and not particulary suited for deadlifted. So does this make the deadlift uniquely suited for asian olympic lifters?
2."Secondly if squats build stand up strength then they reasoned deadlifts build pulling strength provided a more complete strength base for a weightlifter. "
I would agree if we are talking about the stle of deadlift that is basicaly a clean pull without the shrug at the top, but it seems to me that when most people deadlift heavy there is much more back involvement than in a traditional first pull.
- In my opinion, those lifters mentioned do not posses deadlifts that are inconsistent with the strength of their lifts. If one can clean and jerk and jerk 450+, a 600lb deadlift should be easily within reach with little to no training.
[/quote]
yeah but a straight back double overhand clean deadlift is different from a powerlifter style “do whatever it takes to get it up” deadlift
[quote]Politico wrote:
so straps are no good huh? shucks[/quote]
Straps rock if your back and legs are WAY stronger then your grip. I can easily do 405 with straps but am stuck around 350-360 range. My lift always fail at the hands. I wont know till next week when I try to max out again.
Of course when you dont work your grip you dont improve your grip so I would only rarely use straps, and only then when I want to absoluetly hit every main muscle in the lift as hard as possible.
I have been doing farmers walk to help improve my deadlift. Maybe its a longshot but ill race you to 500. Thats only 150lbs improvement in 5 months, so 7.5lbs a week improvement…
[quote]HunterKiller wrote:
Politico wrote:
so straps are no good huh? shucks
Straps rock if your back and legs are WAY stronger then your grip. I can easily do 405 with straps but am stuck around 350-360 range. My lift always fail at the hands. I wont know till next week when I try to max out again.
Of course when you dont work your grip you dont improve your grip so I would only rarely use straps, and only then when I want to absoluetly hit every main muscle in the lift as hard as possible.
I have been doing farmers walk to help improve my deadlift. Maybe its a longshot but ill race you to 500. Thats only 150lbs improvement in 5 months, so 7.5lbs a week improvement… [/quote]
two words - hook grip!
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/4/0/4056e-Tony’s_grad_and_lift-2_005.jpg
Hey, to everyone going for 500lbs, good luck. I was happy when I hit it for the first time.
I’m on the quest for 700lbs. Goodluck to you all.
Oh the picture is of my 617.2 lbs at my last comp.
There is hope!
Ass down, head up!
Respectfully,
Ant