Whether it’s intentional or not…there seems to be a sort of “unspoken implication” on the Forum that goes something like this:“The Pros Are Lazy, Genetic Freaks that don’t work hard because they don’t have too.” Then for the Pros that state that they’re natural? “…Lazy, Genetic Freaks that don’t work hard because they don’t have too AND they’re liars!” Well…I’ve recently read and viewed a lot of the material and Videos of both King Kamali and Skip LaCour because I wanted to see FOR MYSELF why these guys generated so much passion on this Forum. Know what I saw? Dedication…Focus…EXTREME intensity! (these guys were pushing some SERIOUS iron!)…Planning…Follow Through…Sacrafice…Getting up when they were knocked down…Honesty…Straightalk…In answer to my own previous post: at least from THESE two Pro’s, I think we can learn a lot…and I personally will hesitate to bash one again…
Not arguing with you Mufasa, but think about this: if you knew you were being videoed while training and this video would be watched by thousands of people, don’t you think you’d really kick up the intensity and “put on a show”?
Arent the weights fake in those videos?
Go and watch the brand new Ronnie Coleman video and you will be shocked at what that man can do. in that old ratty gym in arlington texas i highly doubt they are fake plates when the guy appears to be close to busting on some sets. he issues a challenge to all bodybuilders to match his strength at 5 weeks out from the olympia. 200lb flat dg presses for 12 and inclines for 8, 805 deadlift for reps, 5 plate bent row for 10, 3 plate military for 10 (easy), but the most absurd thing in the video is front squats with 6 plates. he has the ultimate quote which goes something like this “everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but noone wants to lift any heavy ass weights” hes pretty old school with the training. back was deadlifts, barbells rows and tbar rows, legs was front squats, hacks and walking barbell lunges outside in 100+ degree weather.
Right on Mufasa! I’ve seen the Skip video, and I have to say it’s the best one I’ve seen. No talk, no bullshit, just hardcore set after set. I haven’t seen Kamali’s video, but I’m sure this guy breaks his ass too. And to those guys who say it’s all genetics and shit… These guys do work their asses off.
I don’t think anyone ever said they were lazy, but you gotta admit, without great genetics and LOTS of drugs, they wouldn’t look like that. Face it, lots of people work hard in the gym, but do they ever get 240 pounds at 4% bodyfat? No. I understand what you’re staying, but if you think that the pros look like they do because they simply outwork the rest of us, then you’re deluded.
I used to train at a local Golds Gym where a well known and sucessful over 40 Mr. Olympia competitor trained. Let me tell you it was less than awe inspiring. He used light weights and low intensity. I was shocked. I saw him train many times and always the same thing. I am sure his video showed a different story. Don’t be fooled if they can make Tom Cruise a tough guy in the movies, they can make anybody look like Mr. Intensity in the gym.
People bash the pro’s to make themselves feel better about their own pathetic physiques.
I used to lift in the same gym “Curly Top”, Darryl Stafford and Willie Stalling, three “number sixteen at the NOC” calibre pros, trained at, and they were pretty lax. Top was the only one who lifted heavy and his form was sketchy and there appeared to be any rhyme or reason to his routine. All three of them are dumb motherfuckers to boot.
“With those genetics and withot drugs they wouldn’t look like that!”
And without your genetics you wouldn’t look like that! Or He wouldn’t be as smart as he is! Or without those genetics and drugs I wouldn’t be as big as I am either!
That is a stupid point.
Steroids are a tool. At some point you come to the bridge of gains-a cliff really. If you want to cross the cliff of natural potential you must use the tool (ie The bridge) DRUGS.
That does not mean genetically gifted people on drugs don’t train hard! There are MANY, MANY, Pro’s that LIVE the bodybuilding lifestyle.
People sound jelous when they say its his genetics WELL EVERYTHING ANY OF US EVER DO IS BASED ON GENETICS! (physically or mentaly!)
Pro’s (most of them) Train hard & they ALL go through hard work & hell when getting ready for a show. There is a reason Dorian was unstoppable-HE TRAINED LIKE A BEAST! There is a reason Lee Haney won 8 Olympias!
That said I don’t like ther look, And I think the “sport” is a joke with almost no money to be made.
Most great physiques are worked for. Many drug users I know work harder & live the iron life a hell of a lot more than natural people do.
to be correct here, few if any bodybuilders train with a high intesity. If there is no common acceptence of intesity, then it means nothing.
I’d also like to add that it’s easy to train with intensity when you’re on steroids, you want to feel the pain.
Mufasa, this isn’t a flame or anything, but I find your point a bit naive. Sure, the pros work out hard. I don’t think anyone’s denying that. But face it, a LOT of people work out hard, you and me included. Are we ever going to look like that? Don’t know about you, but I’m not. The best I’m going to get is maybe 200-210 at 6 feet tall, probably 10% bodyfat or thereabouts. I’m not there yet, but that’s what I’m realistically looking at. Will I look absolutely fucking fantastic at that weight and condition? Bet your ass! Will I win any contests? Nope. So I gotta agree with Paul. If you’ve ever been in SoCal or anywhere else where you have the opportunity to see guys with great genetics work out, you’ve seen the difference, just like in any other sport. Gretsky, Kasparov, Arnold, Woods … everyone knew these guys were going to be great from a very early age. Occasionally you might find someone like Micheal Jordan who wasn’t that great to start with and just basically remade himself through his drive and dedication. But with basketball you’re talking about a set of skills to be developed; with bodybuilding it’s mainly size and shape. I don’t deny that Skip LaCour is an intense dude, but at the same time everyone talks about his one-in-a-million genetics, too. Which do you think is the more important factor?
And as for Mike the Lib…sigh. MUST you be so extreme? Lots of people make legitimate assessments of the pros without any sort of inferiority complex.
There were two guys at the gym I go to that were on steroids. One guy was probably 5’8 and weighed about 260. I didn’t see this guy for about a month and when he came back he weighed about 180 lbs. I later heard he got busted in college with steroids and had to go off them. The other guy was about 5’5 and weighed about 265 and was benching four plates for reps on a incline bench smith machine. He disappeared for a month too. When he came back I didn’t even recognize him. He must have lost 40 lbs of muscle. He did go back on the juice and put some size back on. Both of these guys had the look of a pro. When they went off steroids I was bigger and stronger than both of them. I am not saying that they don’t train hard but I don’t see them training harder than any one else. Does genetics play a part in it? I think it does to some degree. I would argue that drugs play a larger part. Lets face if it wasn’t for steroids and other drugs the pros would not look like pros. I think pro body builders would give better advice on pharmacology then they would on weight training advice. I am not a anti steroid zealot. They are pretty much used in every professional sport there is. I have never used them but I will probably give them a try one day. Why does every one say skip LaCour is natural? Just by
looking at him I would say that there is no way in hell he is natural
Mike The Libertarian wrote:
“People bash the pro’s to make themselves feel better about their own
pathetic physiques.”
Okay, and people that defend the pros can’t get over their hero worship and/or are harboring closeted homosexual feelings for these oiled and shaven men posing in their underwear. Actually, I don’t believe that. I just wanted to show you how silly your blanket statement is.
Don’t give it one thought, Bro…I didn’t get even a HINT of a flame. This is the kind of discussion I hoped we would have…I was afraid that the thread would get “hi-jacked” because of the strong feelings the Pro’s elicit. I am still trying to get at the essense of a previous post I had, and that was despite our feelings on the use of drugs by the Pros, there has to be SOMETHING we can learn from them. I THINK that this thread is proving that that is a VERY difficult question to answer without a strong bias. Do you think these guys know what strong Pro and Con feelings they elicit among the fitness community?
…and this Skip LaCour/Natural/Not-Natural issue is probably going to have to wait for a “tell all” book!
There is no psychological connection between defending the pro’s (which I did not do, BTW) and being a homosexual. On the other hand, the connection between having a poor physique and bashing those with good physiques is obvious. It’s a psychological form of self-defense.
princess, your ignorance is disgusting. Do me a favor and think before you spout that inane drivel again.
Uh GENETICS play 100% Part off it! (To the dude above who says otherwise.)
Pro’s have the genetics that allow them to resond BETTER to steroids than normal people that IS A FACT. I take 2000mg of test a week and I don’t look like a Pro!
Princess, steroids do not make you “want to feel the pain.”
This is becoming an anti-steroid post and thats too bad because I thought T-readers were open minded. Half of you should go back to Muscle Media.
JW,
My point was they wouldn’t look like pros with out a large amount of drugs. I wasn’t talking
about how different people respond to steroids, which is obviously a factor.