The Predator Program

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[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:
Fix your form with lower weight first, and then move up. There is no sense in moving up with inferior form and then trying to work back up later with good form. All you are doing is ingraining motor patterns that will be harder to break later. I guarantee your lungs and body will burn with equal intensity if you drop the weight and start over.[/quote]

Putting aside all the other stuff in this experiment, I’ll heartily second this advice. I don’t see why you think building up to 225 with poor depth (that you already KNOW is poor) and then deloading to 155 and going with full ROM is a better idea than just dropping to 155 (or possibly further) now and getting the depth right from the beginning.

My admittedly-based-on-anecdotal-evidence belief is that you’re basically throwing away a couple of weeks of progress by doing this. You’ll take X number of weeks adding weight in the partial ROM, then have to drop the weight way down and start building strength in the full ROM anyway. Plus, as Goldie has pointed out, you’ll have to undo some bad habits that you’ll pick up in 4-6 weeks of half-squatting.

Why not start out building strength in the full ROM now?

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[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:

  1. Missed the point
  2. Missed the point
  3. Missed the point

Congratulations. Trifecta! Good day. [/quote]

How the hell did I miss #3? I asked you a question. I completely get your point - you think my form has issues and I need to lower the weight. Point taken. But what I don’t know is what you think is wrong with my form.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
In the classifications of lifting being beginner, intermediate, advanced, and elite, I definitely consider myself an intermediate lifter. Not saying I’m the biggest or strongest, but to say that I don’t have notable strength or physique over the average non-lifter is BS.
[/quote]

It’s difficult to be objective about ones self. [/quote]

I was going to say this…

OP, you actually look EXACTLY like a non-lifter/beginner. I consider a beginner to be essentially anyone with less than a year of gym experience. You have more experience, but your results don’t reflect this fact. I’ve worked with quite a few non-lifters through their first few months in the gym, and the non-lifters who started off not-obese could generally do pretty much everything you did in the video within a few months. This was really disappointing.

Before watching the videos, I had taken your word on your numbers. I can’t do that anymore. Your squat depth is unreasonably high, so it makes me doubt the maxes you posted without video proof. You mentioned that you intend to increase depth later, but if you’re dropping the weight that much, how will you be able to track progress? And you never offered a reasonable explanation of WHY you’re not doing full range squats now, just THAT you will change this later.

I believe ROM progressions have merit, as thepwnisher has demonstrated in his own training, but if you have to drop the weight well below you’re starting point in several weeks to increase the ROM, I just don’t see the benefit. Do you also intend to increase your ROM on your pull ups eventually? Or maybe perform bottom half pull ups to go along with your top half pull ups? You’re limiting lat stimulation at the moment.

Anyway, will be following this. Good luck.

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[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Putting aside all the other stuff in this experiment, I’ll heartily second this advice. I don’t see why you think building up to 225 with poor depth (that you already KNOW is poor) and then deloading to 155 and going with full ROM is a better idea than just dropping to 155 (or possibly further) now and getting the depth right from the beginning.

…

Why not start out building strength in the full ROM now?[/quote]

I think that’s another valid option, but I don’t think it discounts the ability to build strength at box depths. Louie Simmons and Westside advocate a lot of box depth squats - even high box. I know I’m not doing a box squat because I’m just doing a touch and go, but the depth does have it’s uses.

Many other leg exercises with limited ROM like leg press and extensions are also valuable exercises.

I do also work out with deep squats, but I vary my techniques greatly over the year. Breathing sets, rest-pause, box squats, jump squats, front squats, DE training, ME training. I thought this approach would be useful to build up tolerance to the exercise particularly in a fasted state.

I see your point, but I don’t think it’s a waste. It was my thoughts on what could condition me for better chances doing 30+ full depth squats with a half decent weight for my level.

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I just don’t think you’re nearly as open minded as you claim to be. Obviously, you are not obligated to take anyone’s advice, but you shoot almost everything down without really giving any good reasons why. If you are here to bounce ideas around, why does it seem like you have already made up your mind on every last, excruciating detail?

I recognized that you are eating some organ meat. But, skeletal meat makes up the large majority of your diet, currently. I’m saying with this type of diet, you need MORE organ meat and LESS skeletal meat. However, the larger point is that you are preoccupied with protein when you should be more concerned with fat.

You missed the point on changing things up. Shifting between 30 and 60 reps is not what I was talking about, and you know it. But, obviously you have a serious hard on for this type of training, and no one can convince you otherwise. That’s fine, but I don’t predict good results in terms of strength. You will ready for some met-con competitions, though.

As to your form: Depth is the issue. Depth, despite what you might think, is as integral to form as any other part of the squat. By only doing half squats, you are doing a disservice to, off the top of my head; glute, ham, hips and lower back development, your knee health, your mobility, your total power output, and your dignity. You are not a bodybuilder, right? You don’t need a sick pump in the quads. You need to milk the most out these big compound movements to get the best possible results.

Leave your ego at the door and try to do full squats with lower weight. You may be surprised how much harder it is when you have to hit true depth 50 times. It’s not a coincidence that several people, today alone, have recommended you fix your depth immediately. Most of those people, I’m guessing, can squat more than you, to depth, for what its worth.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
I see your point, but I don’t think it’s a waste. It was my thoughts on what could condition me for better chances doing 30+ full depth squats with a half decent weight for my level.[/quote]

I can’t tell if you’re unaware of it, or intentionally avoiding the whole “specific” part of SAID. You know, “specific adaptation to imposed demands”.

What conditions you for doing 30+ full depth squats with a half decent weight is… doing 30+ full depth squats in the first place, working up in weight.

At this point, I’d almost say you’d be well served starting with the bar, doing sets of 10 deep squats, ramping up to something you find challenging for 10. Then dropping back a bit and doing your 30+ there.

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Also for someone who doesn’t wear a squat suit, doing non-box squatting to “box depths” (which you should realize you aren’t even doing if you are honest with yourself) is utterly useless, so you should stop lying to yourself about that one immediately.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I’ve worked with quite a few non-lifters through their first few months in the gym, and the non-lifters who started off not-obese could generally do pretty much everything you did in the video within a few months. This was really disappointing.[/quote]
Alright then prove me wrong. Use box depth and show me how many you can do with your body weight.

I’ll try to alleviate those doubts in later videos.

Good point. I’m looking for obvious signs of improvement. Things that show without a doubt it works. If it doesn’t I’m back to age test approaches.

Now my pull-up ROM is something I hadn’t been paying attention to. On review it definitely seems to need work. Thanks!

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[quote]Goldie4545 wrote:
Leave your ego at the door and try to do full squats with lower weight. You may be surprised how much harder it is when you have to hit true depth 50 times. It’s not a coincidence that several people, today alone, have recommended you fix your depth immediately. Most of those people, I’m guessing, can squat more than you, to depth, for what its worth. [/quote]
I do full depth squats and I do know how much harder it is hence why I planned to target doing them when I planned a deload. I agree that the majority of advice is f*** that go full now and I can definitely take that.

My question becomes then, when is it appropriate to work in box squats, leg press, and other more limited ROM movements?

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[quote]LoRez wrote:
What conditions you for doing 30+ full depth squats with a half decent weight is… doing 30+ full depth squats in the first place, working up in weight.

At this point, I’d almost say you’d be well served starting with the bar, doing sets of 10 deep squats, ramping up to something you find challenging for 10. Then dropping back a bit and doing your 30+ there.[/quote]

The mentality I had was similar to static holds. If I prepared my body for the endurance then the respective drop in weight would make full depth feel easier. Again, I have no issues changing this next squat workout.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
My question becomes then, when is it appropriate to work in box squats, leg press, and other more limited ROM movements?
[/quote]

What do you understand to be the purpose of each of those? What does a box squat accomplish? What does a leg press accomplish?

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What conditions you for doing 30+ full depth squats with a half decent weight is… doing 30+ full depth squats in the first place, working up in weight.

At this point, I’d almost say you’d be well served starting with the bar, doing sets of 10 deep squats, ramping up to something you find challenging for 10. Then dropping back a bit and doing your 30+ there.[/quote]

The mentality I had was similar to static holds. If I prepared my body for the endurance then the respective drop in weight would make full depth feel easier. Again, I have no issues changing this next squat workout.
[/quote]

If you’re talking about from a cardiovascular endurance standpoint, there are better ways to do that than what you chose. Whether it be loaded (sled, prowler, sandbag work), or just straight up HIIT, biking, etc.

If you’re talking about from a sense of conditioning the body to handle high reps through a full range of motion, well, yeah… you’re missing a big chunk of that.

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[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
My question becomes then, when is it appropriate to work in box squats, leg press, and other more limited ROM movements?
[/quote]

What do you understand to be the purpose of each of those? What does a box squat accomplish? What does a leg press accomplish?[/quote]

For the box squat… Increased leg strength. Dynamic effort training. Louie Simmons and Westside don’t do a lot of it for nothing.

For the leg press it’s a good quad focused exercise advocated a lot more by body builders for isolation purposes as far as I understand. Now me I work them in every now and then because I’m hamstring dominant. I’m sure there will be critiques, but my last workout from this morning I did full range deadlifts, 225 lbs, 1x40ish. I try to post that tonight.

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Look, everyone here is thinking it but I suppose I’ll be the one to go ahead and say it.

What are your shits like?

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
My question becomes then, when is it appropriate to work in box squats, leg press, and other more limited ROM movements?
[/quote]

Gee, that almost sounds like doing a normal weightlifting program instead of The Predator Program ™, so I’m not sure there’s any place for those in your program.

Honestly, it’s kind of funny that you would embark on this sideways program based entirely around sets of breathing squats and then fall back on principles from Westside because “Louie and the boys don’t do them for no reason.”

Louie and the boys do box squats because box squats are really, really good for people training for a powerlifting meet in which they’ll be squatting in a suit. Other people do box squats for varying reasons; I did them quite a bit when I was playing football because I thought the explosion out of the hole was a great simulator of coming out of a stance (sidebar: you seem to equate “box squats” with a specific depth. Wrong, Batman. Box squats can be done to high boxes, medium boxes, low boxes, shoe boxes…there is not one magical depth that is “box depth”).

There is nothing inherently wrong with doing box squats or partial ROM…except that when your entire program is doing sets of breathing squats and nothing else…I don’t even know what we’re talking about any more.

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[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Look, everyone here is thinking it but I suppose I’ll be the one to go ahead and say it.

What are your shits like?[/quote]

HA! Yeah, for the history of all my health experiments I get that a lot… All beef shits are dark, small in size, and wet.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
My question becomes then, when is it appropriate to work in box squats, leg press, and other more limited ROM movements?
[/quote]

What do you understand to be the purpose of each of those? What does a box squat accomplish? What does a leg press accomplish?[/quote]

For the box squat… Increased leg strength. Dynamic effort training. Louie Simmons and Westside don’t do a lot of it for nothing.

For the leg press it’s a good quad focused exercise advocated a lot more by body builders for isolation purposes as far as I understand.
[/quote]

Don’t you think this is pretty lazy thinking?

That reads to me as if you’re saying “I don’t really know/understand, but it must make sense because people do a lot of it and it works for them”.

In contrast…

You stated earlier that your premise for taking your current approach is basically “I did what other people did, and it didn’t work for me”.

Perhaps you should spend more time trying to understand the whys.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I’ve worked with quite a few non-lifters through their first few months in the gym, and the non-lifters who started off not-obese could generally do pretty much everything you did in the video within a few months. This was really disappointing.[/quote]
Alright then prove me wrong. Use box depth and show me how many you can do with your body weight.

I’ll try to alleviate those doubts in later videos.
[/quote]

You’re asking me to prove my own strength? I can do it, but I don’t think you’ll be happy with the results. I only weigh 175-180 right now, and I have a 405 tested max, to depth, on video. As recently as last night I worked up to a single at 385, followed by sets of 8 at 295, all full depth. I’ve performed a set of 30 squats with 225 on the bar, also to full depth. Do you really think I’m going to have a problem half-squatting 185 for 50 reps?

My gym doesn’t have plyo boxes, but if you can get me a height for the box you used, I can stack aerobic steps to the correct height. I’m 5’10, and I think you said you were 6’0, so the box height should be fine. Or I can set the steps 2 inches lower if you’d prefer.

Fair enough on the response regarding your own maxes, I’m sure you’ll be able to post vids of these later on. I wouldn’t expect these to be tested in the midst of your experiment.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Well shit, I guess this wasn’t an elaborate troll job after all. There you are, eating a bunch of raw meat on camera. I’ll be watching to see how this plays out.
[/quote]

In the hospital…[/quote]

I’ve consumed about 600 lbs of raw beef over the last 20 months and from all my YouTube videos the most common comment is how I’m going to die. Heh… Still fine and there are others like me who eat primarily raw meat too.
[/quote]

I don’t think you’ll actually die, but Salmonella (which could kill you) is in your future.

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[quote]LoRez wrote:
Don’t you think this is pretty lazy thinking?

That reads to me as if you’re saying “I don’t really know/understand, but it must make sense because people do a lot of it and it works for them”.

In contrast…

You stated earlier that your premise for taking your current approach is basically “I did what other people did, and it didn’t work for me”.

Perhaps you should spend more time trying to understand the whys.[/quote]

It’s not lazy thinking it’s lazy writing. I know a lot more of the reasons but I don’t want to hash out over all those details. What I’m hearing from you is only do full depth and what I’m trying to establish is there are reasons for not doing full depth.

Exercise selection is a lot different than a complete methodology. Just because I’ve done box squats before in a different methodology with a different diet doesn’t mean it won’t work now.