The Plan

Gentlemen, let me start by thanking all the regular posters for making the archives such a good source of information. My stupid question output was greatly reduced(I hope)thanks to guys taking the time to answer questions that those new to steroids tend to ask.

I now wish to present my plan regarding my first cycle.

I’ve 24 years old and I’ve been lifting weights for approximately 10 years. I’m 6’1 and 317lbs(approx 25% bodyfat). I not in terrible shape as I actively train and compete in submission fighting tournaments, however I’ve accumulated some unwanted weight while making the transition into the working class. A more sedintary day combined with poor lunchtime choices packed on the pounds. I’ve already cleaned up my diet and I’m feeling the effects of having quality fuel running through me when I lift, but I haven’t pushed it to the next level and increased my training sessions(sport specific cardio really)to the point where I’m running a calorie deficit.

The reason I haven’t done so is I do covet my strength and don’t wish to lose any of it along with the excess weight. So I turn to an AAS in hopes to have my cake and eat it too.

So what I want to do is a 6 week cycle of winstrol and clen that looks something like this.

Weeks 1-6 Winstrol 50mg injected ED
Weeks 1-2,5-6 Clenbuterol in pyramiding daily doses, probably 20/40/40/60/60/60/80/80/60/60/60/40/40/40 {Mcgs}

Weeks 7-8 50mg Clomid ED

Weeks 3-4 I’ll be switching to hot rocks for a change as if I did the clen strait through it would have little effect by the end of the cycle. I’ll also be suppelmenting w/Grow and Surge for quality calories.

Now I know what your thinking "Damn steroids newbies, always think they can lose weight with a small winstrol cycle. "

I want to assure you that I know I’m the one that’s got to lose the weight, not the winstrol. All I want from the winstrol is to help me keep all my LBM and allow me to train more often without overtraining.

I’m currently lifting 3 days a week and attending sport specific training session 2 times a week, but I can usually only really take myself to the wall at one of these. The other needs to be mostly technique or I end up a little overtrained and it hurts my lifting. When on the cycle I’d like to increase my training to three days of lifting and three training sessions a week with high intensity at all the sessions.

While on I’d be looking to implement a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet with approx 3500 daily caloires and 325-350 grams of protein.

Aside from general impressions, do you guys feel 50mg of Winstrol daily will be enough to allow me to increase my workload past my prior overtraining point? More importantly, will it be able to preserve my LBM as I desire it to?

Thank you in advance for all input be it a slight tweak or a complete dismantling of the entire plan.

Bro, at your age 300+ lbs. and 25%Bf, you won’t need to worry about losing LBM until you get down to 12-14%Bf. My advice is to diet naturally down to a respectable amount and then implement a cycle of AAS.
I personally can’t stand clenbuterol. I get terrible shakes off of merely 40mcg/day…And clenbuterol has been shown to downregulate beta-2 receptors over extended periods, which isn’t what you want when trying to ditch the Bf. I prefer a regular ECA stack combined w/ a little t-3 for dieting.
If you do opt to do a cycle right now heres what I suggest:
40mg anavar ed for 6 weeks.
25mcg. t-3 ed for 6 weeks.
ECA stack for 6 weeks.
follow it up w/ 100mg. clomid ed for 4 weeks just to be safe as anavar does bind avidly to the AR.
Good luck in whatever route you decide to take.

MK

Steroids is not a license to over train - especially using winstrol! Good luck with the dieting, I however agree with MikeKatz that you can loose a lot of weight yet, without messing with juice. I don’t agree with recomending any clen or ephedrine anymore since a few more bodies have dropped around here lately, and two of my friends have developed an eratic heart beat and one of my friends had a heart attack, and all were heavy users of the said products. However its your choice, you know the risks.

Here is an article you might be interested in, no AAS involved…

So, now its summer time and everyone is looking to show off their bodies, but is your body yet ready to be shown off? Many people out there are probably on top of their game and are almost at their ideal “summer” physique. This article is not intended for this group, but for the group of people who got a little too carried away with their bulking phase and are now trying to drastically loose fat as fast as possible without loosing their hard earned muscle tissue. In this article I am going to discuss what I feel are some very good “natural” pharmaceuticals, and how to properly apply them to drastically accelerate your fat loss diet. Now before I get natural bodybuilders yelling at me for saying that being natural entitles NO pharmaceuticals, these are what I feel to be natural, and also I would consider these non-natural if you were to compete using them. This is an article for people looking to get lean for the summer, not for a tested competition.
Anything I mention in this article will not be worth a damn if your diet is not properly in order, and your calories while dieting with these tricks should probably be even lower than a normal fat loss diet. I won’t discuss nutritional practices in this article due to the fact that if you are willing to try some methods I discuss in this article your diet should already be on point as it is. The one thing I do recommend is to keep your protein intake at around 2g per pound of bodyweight, and your calories decently low.
They should be in the range of 12 calories per pound of bodyweight, although they could be adjusted upward or downward depending on your metabolism and training/cardio regimen. This is as far as I will dive into the nutritional aspects due to the fact that this isn’t a nutritional fat loss article but more of an article discussing pharmaceutical tricks to aid your metabolism and fat loss efforts.
So lets get down to the main aspects of this article. I’m going to break up the content into three groups:
? Glucose disposal agents
? Metabolic Stimulators
? Anti-Estrogen’s
This may be extended into a 2 part series where I will discuss some of the non-natural aspects of dieting, but like I said that would be for a different article.
Glucose Disposal Agents
Glucose disposal agents do not play a direct role in fat loss, but act as an awesome aid in a fat loss diet. Many have probably heard or used some of the OTC (over the counter) glucose disposal agents such as, vanadyl sulfate with chromium, and ALA. Yes, these are all pretty decent glucose disposal agents due to the fact that they mimic and support the effects of insulin in the body, but they are not the best. My personal favorite is Glucophage, or by the trade name Metformin.
This drug heightens the body’s sensitivity to insulin, and is currently used to treat type 2 diabetes. For fat loss purposes Metformin is used in ketogenic diets to rapidly drop blood sugar to quickly induce ketosis. For a mixed ratio diet, Metformin would be used with carb meals insuring that the carbohydrates go to muscle tissue over fat, this is a great addition to a high sugar post workout meal.
Additionally, due to the fact that it controls insulin levels in the body, it also greatly reduces hunger in between meals. Metformin is very beneficial in that it heightens insulin sensitivity, which is very good due to the fact that most Americans are insulin insensitive. This over production of insulin which insulin insensitivity causes can lead to weight gain and also various other health problems. Now, the best way to use Metformin would be to take 2000-3000mg divided up with meals. On a moderate carb diet, you could split up the dose and take it only with your carb meals.
If you follow a CKD (cyclic ketogenic diet) type diet, the best way to use it would be with your weekend carb up, which would follow the same schedule as above. Metformin is not needed during the week, but if you like the appetite suppressing effects that it gives you, you can also use it during the week. Another thing you can do on a CKD is to have a small amount of fast acting carbs (around 40-50g) after your workout with Metformin. This will not cause you to drop out of ketosis due to the fact that the Metformin will quickly shuttle the carbohydrates into the muscle cells while still running on ketones.
Metabolic Stimulaters
This is a given, I mean really, who uses a fat loss diet with out incorporating a thermo like ECA? Not too many people do, with all the fat loss ECA stacks on the market these days. Now don’t get me wrong I think ECA is very good for fat loss, but the “optimal” fat loss combo would have to be T-3 (mostly known as Cytomel and Cynomel) and Clenbuterol. Yes, these two drugs are illegal, but not too hard to find with a little research. T-3 is a great drug whether you are natural or not, you just have to adjust your dosage accordingly and also supplement your diet with high levels of protein.
Don’t get me wrong, this drug is extremely powerful, I mean its straight thyroid (you can feel it pretty quickly) and also dangerous when not used correctly, let me repeat that, very dangerous! T-3 greatly enhances your metabolic rate which slows down as your body fat and calories get lower, which means you don’t have to drop calories extremely low towards the end of your diet. It also works synergistically with Clenbuterol, and keeps the effect of the drug longer.
Everyone thinks that you have to be on gear to use T-3 due to the “wasting effects”, this is bunk. If you use a suitable dosage which (for a natural) would be somewhere between 50mcg-100mcg in divided dosages, and someone on gear could use upwards of 150mcg or more depending on bodyweight.
On T-3 you CANNOT develop the more is better mentality due to the fact that number one, you will burn up all your muscle tissue, and number two, you could potentially screw up your metabolism for the rest of your life, I think number two catches peoples attention. Also every one talks about the “T-3 crash” when you discontinue using it, this is also false due to the fact that most of the people who talk about this normally go back to a bulking diet after the finish, of course your going to gain fat back if you do that!
The best way to come off would be to taper down and when coming of (due to the sluggishness of your metabolism) resume you diet plan for 4-6 weeks after, then start to slowly add calories back in until you are at your normal level. To cycle T-3, I would start with 25mg for the first week, 50mcg the second, 75mcg the third, (you could go up to 100mcg if you feel your body needs it) then stay at that dose for 2 weeks, then taper down by 25mcg per week until you are off. Again this is a dangerous drug when not used correctly, and you have to know your body very well (diet wise) to avoid muscle loss, which could occur.
Clenbuterol is similar to the effects of Ephedrine, but I feel they are much better and also it is less harsh (side effects). The proper way to use this is 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off (ECA would be used on the off weeks). Dosages range from 60mcg per day to 180mcg per day, but again this is very individual due to the fact that people experience side effects at different dosages. Clenbuterol’s effects are very profound on body composition, users commonly report overall fat loss and a hardening to the physique very quickly. I feel this drug works very well in two-week intervals. Again like T-3, I would start off at 60mcg per day and taper up by 20mcg per day until you are at your desired dosage, I really don’t feel you have to taper off of this drug, but some do. Also if you are not a first time user you can start off at the dosage you normally use and run that through out, but if not taper up to find out the effects it has on your body.
Also, take your daily dosages before 3-4 due to the fact that it could cause some insomnia in some people when taken later. Another drug I would use (only on the weeks with the Clen) is Yohimbine HCL. This enhances the overall effects of Clen and T-3 by allowing the effects to last longer, and it also suppresses your appetite very well. The only downside to Yohimbine is that it is an anti diuretic and will make you hold some water while using it, but I feel it is worth it. Dosages are usually around 2-3 5mg tabs spread out with the Clen.
Anti-Estrogens
Most people have heard of Anti-E’s due to their role in a person’s steroid cycle. Anti-Estrogens are used to prevent gynocomastia (the formation of breast tissue) from steroids that aromatize and also reduce water retention. However, Anti-Estrogens can be also used for a host of other reasons, and in our case, fat loss. Estrogen is a “fattening” hormone, and if it is kept in check while dieting you can receive a hard look without even using anabolic steroids. If you don’t believe me, notice the body fat gain when a girl starts using birth control, this is caused by the increase in estrogen levels.
The best drugs for this effect would be Nolvadex (if you are not using anabolic drugs), or the much more powerful (but also very expensive) Arimidex and Femara. Dosages of Nolvadex are usually between 20mg and 40mg a day, Arimidex is usually 1/2mg to 1mg a day, and for Femara, one 2.5mg tab could be used ED or EOD. These could all be used by them self but you could stack Nolvadex with Arimidex or Femara due to the fact that Nolvadex and Arimidex both effect estrogen in the body differently.
These are very good for the natural dieter due to the fact that they will give you a hard (steroid) look, and they will also allow you to retain more muscle mass while dieting. For someone using Anabolic drugs during a fat loss cycle, they should be used regardless because of steroids aromatizing into estrogen, and also they will keep water down and give you a “dry” look.
So here they are, but how would you combine them for the best results? Lets put together a theoretical cycle using only the drugs mentioned in the article for someone who has used them before, for someone that has not, just taper like stated in the article.
Week 1-2
? 20mg of Nolvadex
? 60mcg of Clenbuterol upon wakening
? 50mcg of Cytomel
? 1 tab of Yohimbine around 30min after the Clen
? 25mcg of Cytomel
? 60mcg of Clenbuterol before 2-4 pm.
? 1 tab of Yohimbine around 30min after the Clen
? 2000mg of Metformin spread through out the day
Weeks 3-4
? Same as the previous weeks, but switch the Clen with ECA, if you want to you can also increase the Nolvadex to 40mg a day.
Weeks 5-6
? Drop the ECA and the Yohimbine, and taper down the dosage of T-3 by 25mcg each week, you can keep the Metformin the same or drop it if you want.
Weeks 7-10
Stay off all the drugs and keep your calories the same or slightly increase your carb intake (if you are on low carbs) to aid in your metabolism. During these weeks your metabolism will be sluggish, so watch your diet and keep up with your cardio, the diet isn’t over yet.

The androgenic component of winstrol is NOT significant enough to completely prevent you from losing LBM while dieting. Combine that with the catabolic effects of clenbuterol, and the two drugs you have selected are not a good combo for retaining LBM while dieting. You may want to consider adding in something with a stronger androgenic component, such as test prop, or maybe tren. Like the other guys said, your diet is the key.

Good luck,
TF

P.S. - In my experiences with clen, I wasn’t really that impressed. Not worth it IMHO

[quote]tfrench wrote:
You may want to consider adding in something with a stronger androgenic component, such as test prop, or maybe tren.[/quote]

I’ve gone back and forth on adding test prop. My main concern with adding test is the ancillary drugs I’d want. I’d definetly put arimidex in throughout the cycle, but I’m already prone to acne so I’d want to add accutane to the cycle as well. Problem is I have yet to find a source for accutane.

Also, w/test in the cycle I’d probably convince myself that I’d be an idiot not to add proviron and before I knew it I’d have a much larger cycle on my hands than I had intended.

As for all other comments, I agree that my diet will be everything. In terms of dieting down w/o an AAS, I have no doubts that a natural weight loss regiment would work very well. But, my feeling on the subject is if I can get better results on a few drugs, then why the heck not?

Yes you are right if everything is point on - diet, activity, then the addition of the drugs will better your results

“As for all other comments, I agree that my diet will be everything. In terms of dieting down w/o an AAS, I have no doubts that a natural weight loss regiment would work very well. But, my feeling on the subject is if I can get better results on a few drugs, then why the heck not?”

I understand where you’re coming from…Afterall, why not use whatever’s at your disposal to better yourself…That’s the kind of mentality that arnold had, and look what it did for him…7xmr.o

Just remember that the first time you use AAS is most likely when you’ll reap the most benefits, so make sure all aspects of training,diet,rest,etc. are spot on.

MK