Hi guys,
Am gathering research for my first fatloss stack on gear…
I was considering using 75-100mg of Winstrol combined with Clenbuterol tabs…
Is this a good/fairly good stack?
I’m continuing using the search engine here, so hopefully I’m not posting a FAQ…(cross fingers)
thanks guys!
Winny+Clen=Good
Winny+Test Prop+Clen=Better
Thanks for the feedback. 
I guess I also have to keep in mind that old cost/benefit ratio…
borusa, I’m in the process of putting together a similar stack myself.
I’m focused a little more on the clen as my main goal is fat loss and I’m probably only going to take enough winstrol to avoid any muscle loss from the clen, as my research has indicated that with the faster burning of fat comes a faster burning of protein in the body.
I’ve had trouble finding good data regarding dosing suggestions relative to bodyweight for either of the two drugs. Have you had any success?
The best I’ve come up with on winstrol is Cy’s Steroids for Dummies article which simply gives the average dosage range of most bodybuilder’s as 25-100mg/day. Other than that I’ve only pulled random Q&A’s where guys list their stacks, but no mention of why they chose those amounts.
Zell dosing for any aas depends on goals and previous experiance. Do you have any previous aas experiance?
For fat loss winny is good but, like previouly mentioned many of us on the boards would suggest stacking it with something else. I would also suggest to you and the original poster of this thread looking up info on stacking tren, primo and test, there was a great thread about this stack some time ago.
On another note, to both guys with questions, Clen always seemed too strong for my liking so I stick to eca stacks. Have you ever used clen before? Or any other hardcore fat burners?
One more question on my long post… Do you guys already have your training, diet, and rest periods in order before you go messing with any of your hormones?
Ok I’m done… Hope I can help…
DA
All incredibly relevant questions and shame on me for not including that info in my intial post.
This theoretical stack I am looking to construct and execute will be my first experience with any aas. I’ve had intervals of intrest at various points over the years, but each time I ended up concluding I lacked both the funds and the connections to get legit, quality gear. That is no longer is the case so I’ve decided to look into doing a stack with weight loss as a goal.
As for the strength of clen, I’m fairy confident it will not prove problematic as I’ve used eca stacks in fairly large quanties without incident from as early as my freshmen year of highschool(circa 1994) on.
I’m already pretty squared away in terms of training, rest period and diet. I’ve been lifting for almost 10 years at this point and have experience with all sorts of workouts and exercise types.
Right now I lift three days a week doing compound exercises such as deadlifts and box squats. I use an 8x3 rep scheme with 60 sec rest intervals. My workouts are usually around 35-45 minutes. In terms of diet, I will conceed I’ve only been eating properly for a little under 3 weeks, but I’ve been doing a relatively low carb diet with red meat, spinach salads and as few processed carbs as possible. I have no doubts that if I stayed the course I could lose plenty of weight naturally, but I personally see nothing wrong with responsibly using an aas and stimulant to increase my benefit from diet and exercise.
On top of my weight training regim I train in brazillian jiu-jitsu and submission wrestling 3 days a week, so I have to be careful to avoid overtraining.
As for the already mentioned suggestion of stacking another aas such as test prop or primo, while I have faith it’s sound advice, I’m hesitant take it for a few reasons.
I deliberatly picked winstrol because it’s a relatively weak steroid and therefore has minimal side effects. I’m already somewhat dispositioned to getting acne on my back and chest and I fear taking test could produce a very considerable increase in acne. Also, it doesn’t aromatize so I don’t have to be conerned with using clomid during or after my cycle.
Plus, I’ll admit I’m squeamish about needles and it’s one of the few orals which takes it relatively easy on the liver. I won’t completly rule out an injectible, but I have to say I’m leaning away from injectibles right now.
As for goals, I’m not certain what is reasonable at this point. I’m looking to do a 6-8 week cycle and would like to lose 30 pounds of fat and put on 5 pounds of lean body mass. Again, I’m not certain if this is realistic or not, but I’m carry a lot of extra weight right now so it’s certainly there to lose.
Any advice is welcome, thank you.
Zell, I would have to say if you are going to do something than you might as well do it right…Any oral can be both rough on the liver/ kidneys and possibly suppress natural test levels. The amount in daily dosing and in duration is what makes both cases. Being on any oral for 6-8 weeks at a high enough level to have any effects will do a little damage to T production and to your organs.
With that being said…I would suggest getting over your fear of needles and looking into trying out a cycle of Test prop, tren, letrosol, and winny. With these two injectables you would only have to prick yourself every 3 days and you could keep the doses pretty low seeing how this would be your first cycle. Look up some info on the drugs I have outlined for you and put together a cycle(including PCT) for the board to critique. With these your goals could be met or surpased with either one long cycle or a few short ones. These would take a little more cash and research than what you had originally asked for but, I can say that I think it would be worth the effort.
If this dose not sound appealling to you then another stack I would say you could try that might be closer to what you had originally asked about would be:
weeks1-3
50mg winny ed
10mg M1T ed(before bed)
200mg caffine/50mg ephedrine/200mg white willow bark 2-3xed
weeks 4-5
1 dose “M” in morning ed
2 Alpha Male caps 2x ed
repeat weeks 1-3
repeat weeks 4-5
Throwing in milk thistle and cranberry concentrate to either stack would be a good idea.
Once again sorry but, I know nothing about clen dosing. One thing I do know is that either one of these suggestions will only work as well as your diet and training will allow.
I would add atleast 2 more days a week of traing to your current schedule if time allows, even adding 30min run or 30min of GPP on 2-3 of your current off days would be a great start to losing some fat.
Hope this helps and feel free to ask any more questions.
DA
Here is an article you might find helpful…
In the quest to get ones body to a physical zenith, two factors must be considered. The first is maintaining as much lean body mass (LBM) as possible while trying to drop to single digit body fat levels. To accomplish this the bodybuilder will drop his calories to low levels while at the same time employing adequate amounts of aerobics.
This in turn puts the body in a catabolic state, which is the process in which your body breaks down pre existing muscle tissue for a quick energy substrate. To fix this problem many who have already crossed over to the dark side will employ an Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (AAS) regimen.
By doing this it will insure that the body is in an Anabolic State at all times and they will not risk catabolism.
When introducing AAS into a cutting cycle, dieting theories that once held true for the natural bodybuilder can be somewhat altered. Be it high carb, or low carb, your calories during cutting can be dropped to levels that once before would put you in a very catabolic state.
But now with the assistance of AAS your primary concern should be to keep your protein moderately high (1.5 per lb.) and total calories relatively low. The total calorie intake can be reduced greatly due to the fact that AAS has a strong muscle preserving effect on the body.
Because of this, calories could be kept at 10 to 12 X bodyweight. I dont feel I have to get into dieting specifics due to the fact if you have the notion of adding AAS you should have your diet in order. If you dont know how to diet, you should not be reading this article.
This may sound foreign to some because most people feel that steroids are most notably used for building muscle at a rapid pace. This is true, but steroids are probably the most powerful dieting aid around due to their profound anti-catabolic effects on the body.
Some users that dont have to greatly restrict their calories to diet down to low body fat levels will experience a body recomposition. The scale will stay the same but they will be loosing body fat and gaining muscle tissue at the same time. Remember, its not weight the bodybuilder is trying to loose, its fat that you are looking to loose. So if the scale doesnt change there is no reason to panic, the calipers are what actually count in the end.
Outside of contest dieting regimens water should not be a concern, this means that you should not limit long acting esters or drugs such as Testosterone or Boldenone. Contest dieting is a completely different process, employing very fast acting ester steroids to keep water retention to a minimum.
During a regular dieting cycle excess water weight can be keep to a minimum by using Anti-Estrogens. Water weight is not necessary on a cycle which is why a drug like Arimidex or Femara should be used at a reasonable dose through out and also after for recovery purposes.
These drugs will inhibit Estrogen conversion and keep you dry and sharp looking. Ever see a girl going through her cycle, they put on body fat due to high estrogen levels in the body. High estrogen levels will smooth out your physique quickly and leave you looking puffy, so invest in an estrogen inhibitor.
Another myth that I would like to dispel is that certain steroids have magical cutting qualities to them, most notably Winstrol and Trenbolone. Winstrol is an ester less anabolic, which makes the user not hold any water from the drug. The drug also makes the user look hard and dense, which is why many believe it has fat burning properties.
Trenbolone is a highly androgenic drug, and is an acetate ester. So the user will not experience water retention and due to the high androgenic nature of the drug they will look hard and dense. Androgenic properties usually account for strength, hardening, density, etc. Trenbolone also makes the user very vascular looking, which is an added bonus when dieting.
I feel that Trenbolone and Winstrol used together are a very good adjunct to a cutting cycle. These two drugs also have some synergy when used paired together and Winstrol also has a positive effect on progesterone sides, which some users experience with Tren.
The Base Of The Cycle
The base of any cycle, whether bulking or cutting, over four weeks in length should include a form of testosterone. Testosterone should be the backbone of your cycle with a does of around 500-1000mg. Testosterone is known to have powerful anti-catabolic effects and also a slight fat burning effect. It also makes the other drugs used in the cycle work more efficiently.
When dieting Propionate should be the preferred ester, using around 150mg EOD, to 100mg ED. But if you do not have access to Propionate one could use Cypionate or Enathanate. An ideal way to use Cypionate or Enathanate to get the most out of the drug would be to incorporate Propionate for the first two weeks, and also two weeks after you cease using the Cypionate or Enathanate.
This would insure that the test becomes quickly active in your system and you dont have to worry about building up your blood concentration. Also this technique will allow you to come of the test at once and not wait for the slow ester to come out of your system.
After you have your base of testosterone in place you should then incorporate an androgenic drug such as Trenbolone or anavar. These drugs used alone or together make the user very strong due to the androgenic nature and with no bloat or water retention. These two drugs will also provide you with a dense and hard look, which is encouraged during a cutting cycle.
Anavar is also known to increase protein metabolism, which is a very desirable attribute. Tren could be used at 75mg to 100mg EOD to get the desired effect the user is looking for, and Anavar could be used at 40mg ED. If Anavar is cost prohibitive one should defiantly use Tren during their cutting cycle.
Test and Tren could suffice for a very effective cutting cycle, but most prefer to add a pure anabolic as well. Boldenone is very effective for dieting due to the protein anabolism and also increased vascularity. The only problem is that hunger sometimes becomes an issue when using this drug, but if one can control it, or use suppressants than it would be a very good addition.
If Boldenone no ester could be acquired that would work even better than the normally used undecylenate due to the fast acting acetate ester. Most users experience some degree of water retention while using the long ester, and should be ceased early in the cycle to allow time for the ester to clear the system. Another anabolic, which I spoke highly about earlier is Winstrol, especially if tren is paired with it.
These two drugs promote hard dense muscle and also attribute to strength. Primobolan Depot is probably one of the safest anabolic out there and is notorious in cutting cycles with out disruption of the bodys natural testosterone production. This drug works very well on low calorie diets (anti-catabolism), and will add tone and roundness to the bodybuilder. Any one of these three drugs would result in positive effects during ones cutting cycle.
Cycle Design
Cycles’ should be designed with a base of test including a dosage of around 500mg to 1000mg per week. On a typical 12 week long cycle one could start with 100mg EOD of propionate and 500mg of Enanthanate for the first two weeks. The Enanthanate would be used at a dose of 250mg EOD for the next eight weeks, than the cycle could be ended with 100mg of propionate ED for the last two weeks.
Boldenone could be used for the anabolic at a dose of 100mg EOD during weeks 1-10. If you have previous experience with Boldenone you could frontload it at 800mg for the first week to bring up your blood concentration faster. Trenbolone and Winstrol could be employed during the end of the cycle (4-10) to encourage a hardening to the physique. Tren could be used at 75mg EOD, and Winstrol at 50mg EOD to ED.
For the Anti-Estrogen Femara could be used at 2.5mg EOD throughout and also with post-cycle Clomid.
The cycle outlined above will produce dramatic results on ones body composition. Along with a cutting cycle most bodybuilders would incorporate glucose disposal agents, metabolic stimulators, and also appetite suppressants, to produce dramatic and rapid results. But one must remember, all the drugs in the world wont be worth a damn if diet and training isnt on point.
Yeah, you can use the drugs above to look good, but I feel that is a complete waste of money. If you are going to inject yourself nearly every day, then there is no excuse for your diet and training not to be on point. But this article is for the bodybuilder who already knows how to diet and train, so I wont get into specifics regarding diet. If you dont know how to diet already you shouldnt be reading this article.
I feel the cycle designed above could be altered to ones drug responsiveness, preference, and also availability, but will provide a bodybuilder with a good outline of which drugs will have the best effects in the fat loss arena.