So why is Hip Hop not a culture?
I may have missed that.
To have a culture you need a shared social trait which HipHop doesn’t have.
At one time it was age but even that now has crossed generations since those who started in the 80’s are no 40 somethings.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
To have a culture you need a shared social trait which HipHop doesn’t have.
At one time it was age but even that now has crossed generations since those who started in the 80’s are no 40 somethings.[/quote]
“Age” was the only shared trait of Hip-Hop??? You’re gonna have to better than that…explain why “Rap”(expression through rhymes)is not the main shared trait and component of Hip-Hop culture. And why do you keep using 50 Cent as examples in your arguments?..no wonder you deny Hip-Hop as a culture.
i think what he is now delving into is a sub culture(rap) within a culture(hip hop),
IMO a culture is a cultivation of a particular premise. To use resources available and build something that can then represent a group of subcultures. Such as:
Fashion, music, a common social trait (black people), art, politics, what more?
This has branched to many different subcultures. And hip hop is not exclusively a black thing anymore. But that’s the roots.
To a degree every culture is a subculture. Of a city, of a state, of a coast, of a country, of the world.
E.g. European Hip Hop, West Coast Hip Hop, New York Hip Hop, Southern Hip Hop, African Hip Hop. Subcultures of Hip Hop that will one day be considered their own cultures, if it hasn’t happened already.
Can’t forget Raggaeton.
But language will be the divider of the subcultures.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
The exact reason I say hip hop is not a culture there is not consistent dress, unless your going to say the likes of Common, Talib, andre 3000 and others are not part of hip hop. They don’t dress anything like 50. They don’t rock baggy shirts, hoodies, or huge sweaters.
Even Jay-z brought out the button up. Are you going to say he is not hip hop? For the last 2 years rappers have been wearing alot more suits, are they immediately casted out of hip hop culture?
I am not against confining the music to only people who like it, but generally when you call something a subculture you confine it to the style that it should be.
[/quote]
Hiphop style in general involves baggy clothes, but not necessarily.
I believe Ice-T best answers this question. I was watching his Rap School show one time, and one of the kids rocked up in a purple suit. Ice-T asked “do you think that suit is hiphop?”
…Then he said yes, that is VERY hiphop, because hiphop is about being yourself.
Yes that’s all true, but it gets a bit much when all some rappers do is brag about how much better they are than everyone else because of all their money and lavish lifestyle, which they have gained from being in the industry. Hiphop does involve lyrical battling and venting aggression, but I don’t think that it should be all about trash talking to make others who listen to the music feel inadequate.
Like, when Fiddy talks about “you just a window shopper looking at shit you can’t buy”, etc. I mean, most people in the world are not in the top percentage of wealth and can’t afford to buy anything they see in a store window, but that doesn’t mean that they are inadequate.
Everyone wants that lifestyle of a baller (well, most), and tries to emulate it, but most (outside of the US) can’t reach it.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
“Age” was the only shared trait of Hip-Hop??? You’re gonna have to better than that…explain why “Rap”(expression through rhymes)is not the main shared trait and component of Hip-Hop culture. And why do you keep using 50 Cent as examples in your arguments?..no wonder you deny Hip-Hop as a culture.[/quote]
I specifically said social trait. Since the shared SOCIAL trait is what defines a culture. “Age” at one time, since it was a youth movement, was the only SOCIAL trait it had.
Rap is not just expression through rhymes, but expression with a melodic tone through rhymes, otherwise poetry would be rap. I use 50 because 1) JohnnyBlaze 2)He utilizes many of the stereotypes of hiphoppers.
Blaze:
Your right they do brag too much its annoying. This is why I argue so hard against calling it a culture. Otherwise I wouldn’t give a shit since its just a technicality of the word. But when you call something a culture you confine it to a certian structure, which is what the music industry has done.
15 years after hip hop started when everyone decided to classify it as a culture it became about being hardcore East Coast stomping cats with timb boots and army fatigue. West Cost killing ni@@as over colors, and not givin a f about ho’s. EVERY rapper had to choose one of those styles.
Finally 2000 people got sick of it. Started rhyming about money and fast cars. Now labels are not talking to you unless thats your style.
Your statement about Ice tea is true hiphop is about being you, but so is every other music genre and life in general. When we can leave hip hop as a music genre and not a culture we don’t have to worry about all rappers sounding a like, and record labels will start looking for mc’s that sound good instead of fitting a certian cultural norm.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Your statement about Ice tea is true hiphop is about being you, but so is every other music genre and life in general. When we can leave hip hop as a music genre and not a culture we don’t have to worry about all rappers sounding a like, and record labels will start looking for mc’s that sound good instead of fitting a certian cultural norm. [/quote]
Another important cultural aspect. Evolution.
IMHO You’re just pointing out it’s cultural aspects that need tightening up. Or they’ll just evolve.
I don’t think any supporter of Hip Hop music goes out an buys a CD hoping that it will sound exactly like the rest of them. You always expect these artists to be doing new things. Growing.
How many people are trying to evolve this culture to a more enlightened state, if you will. Kanye, who has been ridiculed on these forums for the past week or so is doing NEW things. He is evolving Hip Hop.
Yes execs expect 16 bars 3 verses and 2 chorus’. But shit, I don’t think that is exactly limiting.
Once again I think people speculating that something needs to be fixed when it isn’t broken. Or more appropriately trying to take sight of a moving target. You muthafuckas are birdwatching.
In My eyes Kanye is a genius with the beats, and great lyrically so exceptional that he is able to overcome stereotypes and break barriers. Not many artist are able to do that.
Of course I expect hip hop to evolve but there is a difference between evolving and not being a part of. At the time of hardcore and gangsta rap there were still many hip hop artist who were good and did not conform to either of those styles yet never gained the proper recognition.
You also have many of the so called gangsta rappers being clowned because they were not gangsta. They were forced to play a role that wasn’t them. Even many of the artist now are just acting when they rap, so your not getting a culture your getting an actor that Execs expect you to like.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
In My eyes Kanye is a genius with the beats, and great lyrically so exceptional that he is able to overcome stereotypes and break barriers. Not many artist are able to do that.
Of course I expect hip hop to evolve but there is a difference between evolving and not being a part of. At the time of hardcore and gangsta rap there were still many hip hop artist who were good and did not conform to either of those styles yet never gained the proper recognition.
You also have many of the so called gangsta rappers being clowned because they were not gangsta. They were forced to play a role that wasn’t them. Even many of the artist now are just acting when they rap, so your not getting a culture your getting an actor that Execs expect you to like.[/quote]
To those same Execs its all about marketing a profit…and thats it…sadly.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
To those same Execs its all about marketing a profit…and thats it…sadly.[/quote]
Yep and this is why everybody thinks 50 now sucks. After his monster “Get Rich or die Trying” they think he is a tired passionless lyrically weak artist. But after that album he specifically said I’ve found the formula to sell records I’m going to use it to death.
When he was coming up he was much more artistic. He had different types of songs some pop(thug love) some hardcore(many men) some off-beat(how to rob). Now he has one sound. This is not 50 and this is not hip hop.
All this 50 talk funny thing is this week I really really hate him. He’s been on New york radio on wednesday for 16 hours, thursday for 8, and replay morning today and guest artist afternoon today. All on one station. Right now I wish he never existed.
50 used to make some dope songs. Corner Bodega, Ghetto Qu’Ran, Too Hot… Now he’s the poster boy for generic, redundant ass rap music. I guess 800.000 sold in 1 week corrupts.