The Nation's Cruelest Immigration Law?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

“Shouldn’t conservatives be pushing for migrant worker laws that include taxation on earnings? Restricting cheep labor is not in the best interest of the free market.”

Funny how I get no response on this comment, just keep having the conversation they want you to have, Illegals are bad. They are taking jobs and a drain on social services, blah blah blah. Currency and investment have no borders. You can stop illegal immigration all you want, but if the work force is cheaper somewhere else corporations will move the jobs over there. Secondly, if you believe in a free market then you should support migrant workers and taxation to pay for the services they are using. Criminalizing and jailing illegals is stupid. Deportation fine, but putting them in jail is dumb.

As for what BC is getting at I agree that to take away a charities status or make them refuse to help someone because they are illegal is not a good law. We cannot trust our courts to use commonsense on these issues. Just look at the wiretapping situation as it is being used against the public in filming police and public servants. That was not what those laws were intended for by any stretch of the imagination. It is only liberal news outlets that seem to be covering these type of stories as well. There seems to be this consensus on the right that if you got arrested then you must have been in the wrong. It makes the world simple but it is not reality. [/quote]

Excuse me, but I was out all day speaking with an assemblyman on how to overturn a bullshit bill that will probably pass.

Ok, so getting back to your question.

Taxation laws on migrant workers are worthless, because taxing those who make nearly nothing is not worth them being here in the first place. They would not qualify to declare taxes since their overall income would be minimal, so the idea of taxing them but letting them stay is worthless because they do not make up the costs they consume.

Like I mentioned before, if you mean charity that you help with food, water, and shelter, that’s fine. But that is not grounds for amnesty. So when you think about jailing illegal aliens, we are being perfectly charitable. We are housing, feeding, and attending to any medical needs, and then sending them back. So I don’t see how we are not “charitable.” Breaking into my home does not automatically make you a member of my family.

You clearly didn’t read the law, which states…“upon a lawful stop or contact with police…” That does not mean you are being yanked off the streets and asked about your immigration status. The idea of having your papers as a foreigner on your person are not new, they were a part of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

As far as cheap labor, what is the difference between shipping jobs to China, or importing cheap workers ? If anything, importing cheap workers costs more because of the costs they incur with living here (welfare, education, incarceration, foreign remittances, health care).

If anything, this is kind of a Leftist issue, by leveling the playing field for worker’s wages and not allowing some foreign clown to low-ball every guy with a skill. [/quote]

I have no problem with stoping illegals. Never argued that illegals should be allowed to stay. Are you going to completely stop illegal alians from coming here? Do you believe that you can even make a significant dent in this issue with a law like this? There are claims of lofty imaginations from conservatives against liberals, but this is ripe. You believe this law is going to make a significant change in illegal aliens and healthcare costs, ect ect ect? I expect to see some major dollars spent on litigation despite finding that checking papers is legal. Give it time there will be abuses of this law by authority just like any other.

You also still cling to this idea that there is something to be gained for american workers by not allowing illegals to do menial jobs. It is a joke. More and more produce is already coming form mexico. I for one would personally prefer that the oversight and profits go to ammerican farmers not mexico. No one is going to pay more for this type of labor and americans are not lining up to do it for next to no pay. Even if they did pay more then the cost of the items would go up and the consumer would not be able to afford it anyway and turn to the cheaper product from mexico.

I see two options. One embrace the free market whole heartily which is what is driving us towards a bigger and more intertwined global economy, which in turn will lead us to globalization and less and less control to be had for nations. The second being taking an isolationist approach. Get rid of all illegals, stop immigration, stop importation, essentially become a self reliant producing nation again.

There is in reality a third that would be a combination of the 2 but we don’t have reasonable solutions in this country. [/quote]

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

62

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

[/quote]

California is a joke. I live in LA for the time being as well. I am mind F-ed every time I go out the door. We have ridiculous taxes and fees and the infrastructure is shit. You have areas like the one I am in that every other car is 50K+, but I know that 1 in 7 people is on food stamps in LA. This is not Arizona or Texas by any means.

I also have worked in the Hotel industry for 10 years and can tell you that once I got to management I saw how illegal aliens get employment. Most of the ones that end up employed by businesses, not day labor types, actually have legal relatives. They will use legal peoples social security numbers to get employment. Often it is caught many months later, but in Texas I know that as an employer the only thing you can do is assume they made a mistake and request a new SS#. Then the whole thing starts over. Several cases of this and INS will make a visit.

I have a problem with passing more laws when there are existing laws not being used to enforce issues. Most conservatives use to be the same way. I can also say I am against giving money for education of illegal immigrants. However when it comes to hospital care, food, clothing, ect I donâ??t think that institutions or citizens should be punished, they should however report the people and if not that of course is against the law.

Perhaps harsher laws against housing illegals would be useful. Like if you are caught housing illegal family members then you can get jail time?

63

[/quote]

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

[/quote]

Very well put.

64

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

Very well put.[/quote]
I agree that it makes sense, but again here is where I am an idealist and a realist all at once. I have a major problem with the attitude of don’t feel bad most farms are corporate owned. Most states are selling off every last inch, and even selling income generating programs to corporations. This is the globalization issue that I fear, as corporations do not care about a strong american economy or a large middle class. So corporation will export jobs, which impacts income and tax revenues here in the USA, and then once we face financial short falls they will buy up every last inch of this country for pennies on the dollar.

65

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

Very well put.[/quote]
I agree that it makes sense, but again here is where I am an idealist and a realist all at once. I have a major problem with the attitude of don’t feel bad most farms are corporate owned. Most states are selling off every last inch, and even selling income generating programs to corporations. This is the globalization issue that I fear, as corporations do not care about a strong american economy or a large middle class. So corporation will export jobs, which impacts income and tax revenues here in the USA, and then once we face financial short falls they will buy up every last inch of this country for pennies on the dollar. [/quote]

Exporting jobs to China, or allowing illegal aliens to work those jobs, are the same argument, cheap labor. But we don’t have to pay for Chinese nationals if the jobs are shipped overseas.

66

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

Very well put.[/quote]
I agree that it makes sense, but again here is where I am an idealist and a realist all at once. I have a major problem with the attitude of don’t feel bad most farms are corporate owned. Most states are selling off every last inch, and even selling income generating programs to corporations. This is the globalization issue that I fear, as corporations do not care about a strong american economy or a large middle class. So corporation will export jobs, which impacts income and tax revenues here in the USA, and then once we face financial short falls they will buy up every last inch of this country for pennies on the dollar. [/quote]

Exporting jobs to China, or allowing illegal aliens to work those jobs, are the same argument, cheap labor. But we don’t have to pay for Chinese nationals if the jobs are shipped overseas.[/quote]

Or their kids, or when they get sick, or locked up ect.

But hell, it’s only 113 billion a year… right Orion?

67

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
It bears repeating over and over…

Illegal aliens cost U.S. Taxpayers aprox. 113 BILLION dollars annually.

[/quote]

Pea…

…nuts.

That is all. [/quote]

Not…

…yours.

THAT is all.[/quote]

Hardly an issue anymore.

That is all.

68

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

Very well put.[/quote]
I agree that it makes sense, but again here is where I am an idealist and a realist all at once. I have a major problem with the attitude of don’t feel bad most farms are corporate owned. Most states are selling off every last inch, and even selling income generating programs to corporations. This is the globalization issue that I fear, as corporations do not care about a strong american economy or a large middle class. So corporation will export jobs, which impacts income and tax revenues here in the USA, and then once we face financial short falls they will buy up every last inch of this country for pennies on the dollar. [/quote]

Exporting jobs to China, or allowing illegal aliens to work those jobs, are the same argument, cheap labor. But we don’t have to pay for Chinese nationals if the jobs are shipped overseas.[/quote]

Or their kids, or when they get sick, or locked up ect.

But hell, it’s only 113 billion a year… right Orion?[/quote]

Right.

Its a diversion, just like gay marriage, medicinal marijuana and creationism in school books.

Irrelevant, you are fiddling while Rome burns.

70

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
It bears repeating over and over…

Illegal aliens cost U.S. Taxpayers aprox. 113 BILLION dollars annually.

[/quote]

Pea…

…nuts.

That is all. [/quote]

Not…

…yours.

THAT is all.[/quote]

Hardly an issue anymore.

That is all. [/quote]

Only you could write that with a straight face.

Or maybe you’re about to become a naturalized American?

God, that’s a scary thought…[/quote]

No thank you, I still live in a moderately free country.

I would have my head examined if I traded that in for even more taxes and less freedom.

I would however be a loyal subject of the Prince of Lichtenstein, I swear!

I would even put on a suit and wave once a year on his birthday!

He had me on “everything over 6% income tax is tyranny” and I would like to bear and raise his children…

swoons

71

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

If you stop giving them entitlements, jobs, education, welfare, etc there is alot less incentive for them to come here. Do I think illegal immigration can be stopped completely ? Probably not, but we can make a HUGE dent in it. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a HUGE illegal alien population. I can tell you first hand, that this is a problem that should be nipped in the bud before it festers. We spend $14 BILLION per year in California on illegal aliens, $14 fucking BILLION dollars, when our state deficit is $29 Billion. That is nearly half. We have implemented DUI checkpoints for the point of getting illegals off the roads and deported, and it works. So much to the point where the ACLU tried to claim they were unconstitutional, when both the Fed and State of CA Constitutions say they are legal. You can tell how effective a law is by how bad the backlash is. This week, our state legislature is about to vote on giving public tax money to illegals for school. Yes, PUBLIC tax dollars, not private grants, not loans, but free fucking money. People are in a frenzy on this, and the shit storm is brewing if it passes.

The problem with your free market argument, is that the costs of illegal aliens are never fully accounted for. An accurate analysis would include their total costs (education, health care, incarceration, lost remittances, etc) when most analysis only account for corporate profit versus payroll costs.

You see, you are either going to pay for illegal aliens on the front end or the back end. They talk about “we only come here to work.” BULLSHIT. They are having kids, getting sick, getting arrested, which all figures into their costs. So you either pay more a better wage for an American to work the job, or you pay later for the illegal alien to work that job accompanied with their costs on the back end (having kids, school, medical care, etc.)

At bare minimum, if we give the job (even with a higher wage) to the American, that money is more likely to be recycled back into the economy (paying rent, buying food, etc) rather than the money being sent back out of the country (Mexico’s #2 GDP is remittances sent back from the US). Free market principles will also not allow for a head of lettuce costing $10, because no one will buy it. Don’t feel bad either, most farms are corporate owned, you have VERY few farms that are family owned these days.

Very well put.[/quote]
I agree that it makes sense, but again here is where I am an idealist and a realist all at once. I have a major problem with the attitude of don’t feel bad most farms are corporate owned. Most states are selling off every last inch, and even selling income generating programs to corporations. This is the globalization issue that I fear, as corporations do not care about a strong american economy or a large middle class. So corporation will export jobs, which impacts income and tax revenues here in the USA, and then once we face financial short falls they will buy up every last inch of this country for pennies on the dollar. [/quote]

Exporting jobs to China, or allowing illegal aliens to work those jobs, are the same argument, cheap labor. But we don’t have to pay for Chinese nationals if the jobs are shipped overseas.[/quote]

Or their kids, or when they get sick, or locked up ect.

But hell, it’s only 113 billion a year… right Orion?[/quote]

Right.

Its a diversion, just like gay marriage, medicinal marijuana and creationism in school books.

Irrelevant, you are fiddling while Rome burns. [/quote]

I prefer to think of it as …you have to start somewhere.

I also love how everybody loves to compare America with Rome…I swear some of you Euros have small penis syndrome.

72

http://nation.foxnews.com/illegal-immigrants/2011/09/02/illegal-aliens-got-billions-irs-tax-credits-last-year

more info on the money that is stolen from taxpayers and given to illegal aliens

74

That has been the argument (it’s not the government’s money so who cares).

Cali is on the verge of passing the CA Dream Act, giving illegal aliens money for college. NOT legal kids, but illegal aliens. This has people so fucking pissed, that a recall and referendum are being drawn up should Governor Moonbeam sign it.

75

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I’m not sure if a majority do, I have never seen statistics. However, I can see as to why they might have. Help the poor, well that is about it.

But, I don’t think most Catholics are educated enough to vote “Catholic” they are more of a Post-JFK, modernist NICOs, than faithful to the Church Catholics that we had before the 1950’s. Stealing from citizens (which the Church views income tax and other such taxes as theft) is definitely not something someone entrenched in the teachings of the Church would be willing to vote for.[/quote]

At least here in PA it is that way, it is a tradition so to speak. It is how Obama won a state that clings to it’s bibles and it’s guns. The people here are a majority catholic and wouldn’t listen to, he is pro abortion, against the church and so on. They burried there heads and said we are catholic and vote democrat. I mean we had PACs called Catholics for Obama. [/quote]

Yes, that is what we call CINOs (sorry, I must be dyslexic, it is not NICOs), Catholic in Name Only. There are definitely those who fit the profile this last Presidential election. I mean serious the guy basically clears the entire five non-negotiables: abortion, cloning, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, and gay-marriage. Don’t even get me started on Pelosi.

76

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Luckily, she lives in Texas, so it doesn’t matter.
[/quote]

Lol.

77

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
Mostly I’m okay with the law.

That said theres a really ugly undercurrent to it thats mostly veiled racism. Now I’m against anyone being in the country illegally but I can’t help but believe that a Ukranian post doc who “forgets” to renew their visa will not get the same sort of scrutiny that a Costa Rican migrant worker will.

As for the churches being charged for aiding them I’d agree with an expemtion for them if they gave up their tax exempt status. [/quote]

I don’t understand this tax exempt status thing, why does everyone bring it up?

78

I agree with the new Alabama law. Now, I’d really be impressed if they actually enforced it — and sent the bill to the Federal Government for failing to protect the border in the first place.

The good churches have plenty of other opportunities to show their love, grace, mercy, etc. – go to U.S. citizens in need in the jails, hospitals, poor neighborhoods, schools, etc. It shouldn’t be difficult to find U.S. citizens that would benefit from a little churchly attention. Or, if they really wanted to be helpful to the illegal immigrants, they could escort the illegals back to where they came from, or at least to deportation officers, but I’m sure that would become problematic.

If you really want to talk CRUELTY – what about the nasty rape/murders performed by illegals on U.S. soil? There have been several in my area in NJ over the past several years.

79

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I agree with the new Alabama law. Now, I’d really be impressed if they actually enforced it — and sent the bill to the Federal Government for failing to protect the border in the first place.

The good churches have plenty of other opportunities to show their love, grace, mercy, etc. – go to U.S. citizens in need in the jails, hospitals, poor neighborhoods, schools, etc. It shouldn’t be difficult to find U.S. citizens that would benefit from a little churchly attention. Or, if they really wanted to be helpful to the illegal immigrants, they could escort the illegals back to where they came from, or at least to deportation officers, but I’m sure that would become problematic.

If you really want to talk CRUELTY – what about the nasty rape/murders performed by illegals on U.S. soil? There have been several in my area in NJ over the past several years.[/quote]

So, you’re saying that because they are not American, and specifically illegal immigrants, mostly considering those from south of the border, that they are not persons who should be helped when in need? Interesting.

And my Church does go to jails/prisons, hospitals, poor neighborhoods, and schools (we actually own hospitals and schools).

What does your Church of eighteen links do?

80

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I agree with the new Alabama law. Now, I’d really be impressed if they actually enforced it — and sent the bill to the Federal Government for failing to protect the border in the first place.

The good churches have plenty of other opportunities to show their love, grace, mercy, etc. – go to U.S. citizens in need in the jails, hospitals, poor neighborhoods, schools, etc. It shouldn’t be difficult to find U.S. citizens that would benefit from a little churchly attention. Or, if they really wanted to be helpful to the illegal immigrants, they could escort the illegals back to where they came from, or at least to deportation officers, but I’m sure that would become problematic.

If you really want to talk CRUELTY – what about the nasty rape/murders performed by illegals on U.S. soil? There have been several in my area in NJ over the past several years.[/quote]

So, you’re saying that because they are not American, and specifically illegal immigrants, mostly considering those from south of the border, that they are not persons who should be helped when in need? Interesting.

And my Church does go to jails/prisons, hospitals, poor neighborhoods, and schools (we actually own hospitals and schools).

What does your Church of eighteen links do?[/quote]

Please point to where I said ‘they are not persons who should be helped in need’. You must be thinking of some elses post. Primarily, I think they should be helped back to their homeland and schooled in legal U.S. immigration policy.

Charity is wonderful…but not if it involves harboring illegals.
Why don’t you provide safe haven for a few terrorists while your at it?
Because the burden of illegals on our economy, government, and future American generations is truly terrifying.

Look, I used to be much more liberal. I actually had cleaning ladies that were certainly illegal. Cleaned better than anything I ever saw before at 1/2 the price. No espeeka eengles. I gave them Christmas bonuses, presents and all our household hand-me-downs for years.

Then, our community experienced a few horrible rape/murders by illegals. And the lesser villains were consistently being caught doing bat-shit things…drunk driving on the wrong side of the road (no license of course), walking into peoples houses and hiding, showing up at school giving out-of-town addresses, etc. Our mayor made headlines by being among the first in the country to sign up for the new federal program that trains and authorizes local police officers to check for immigration status while enforcing local laws. No documents? Local police were authorized to hold them until the feds could come and take over. Guess what happened? The illegals scattered like you know what. Ran out of town. Good for us — but bad for the communities where they went.

Then, I finally become KNOWLEDGABLE on the enormous economic burden on our government (and us) — NOT supporting illegals becomes a no brainer and a matter of civil self-defense. If there weren’t so many ENABLERS, (like I used to be), we’d be moving in the right direction a lot faster.