Some disagree but I still consider the 800m the hardest race. Short enough it’s still pretty much a sprint, but twice the length of the already tough 400m.
Imo it’s more than that. Guys at the NFL level who are good react to football situations at an instinctive level; it goes beyond mere athleticism. Here’s a rugby player that generated a lot of buzz when first signed.
It’s the same reason that guys who are super fast and can jump high don’t dominate the receiver position. Route running is even more important than athleticism apparently. Antonio Brown believe it or not is not impressive at all based on his workout metrics; the only attribute where he is above the 50th percentile is agility (58th).
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Robert Oberst is a world class strongman who actually played football in high school and college. He never even survived the cuts at an NFL camp.
I won’t pretend to know what makes a successful lineman in the NFL. But apparently it’s not just size and strength; or even whether you played the game growing up lol.
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probably not bad. I mean, the combine is a set of workouts. That’s their thing. Even I can do a handful of combine events fairly well.
I’m not sure why this would be interesting, though.
From the basic strength/speed metrics, sure. But the fact that Rugby players aren’t migrating to the NFL more often shows how difficult the sport is beyond just those basic metrics.
That being said, I don’t think that anyone will argue against large, fast athletes in general having a few of the basic physical requirements of pro football
There’s no real way to really guess if Hall could have been a successful NFL athlete. He’s got some of the necessary qualities, but clearly not all of them. Explosive strength is waaaaay more important than static strength in football. So is footspeed and agility, even at the linemen positions. I have no idea if Hall could have developed those qualities. I don’t know if he could have been fast enough. I also don’t know if Hall is mentally cut out for a team sport, or to be coached, period. I also don’t know how Hall would have done in a drug tested sport at the highest level. I don’t know how well he can take a hit. You make a whole lot of assumptions by saying he’s gifted enough to have played. I just don’t see evidence of that.
Let’s look at it the other way around, just for fun. How many Left tackles in the NFL could have been pro strongmen instead of playing in the NFL? The answer is likely: all of them. Starters and backups. These guys have been limited by drug tests throughout their career, and even being ‘mostly’ clean, could almost universally earn a pro card within a year of training for strongman. Whereas we can think of less than 5 strongmen who we believe could have been pro football players. A few, like Oberst, tried and failed. Brian Shaw was clearly exposed to football and he had no shot.
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A thought I had now that we’re getting close to the start of the NFL season.
Another random thought I’m having now is how big of a part people think motor coordination plays into a being an impressive athlete.
100% agree. Athlete to athlete I’m not sure there is much between rugby and NFL. Id argue the strongest NFL players are stronger than rugby guys, but rugby reqiures a high level of stamina from even the stronger guys. So there is a trade.
The idea that cross over from sports is an indicator of comparable physical ability is (as highlighed) a false one. There are too many factors involved.
For example Sam Burgess world cup winning rugby league superstar who captained his national side.
Came over to rugby union, a sport so similar it shares a name with it and struggled to get a first team spot and was largely lambasted for being a bit crap.
This is the difference between athlete and sports man/woman.
Athletic ability is the gross motor skills and physical ability to run, jump and exert strength / power.
The fine motor skills needed to do this on a game are sporting ability.
CREW, Gymnasts, Boxers.
Funnily enough, he was the first name that sprung to mind for me too!
Sonny Bill Williams is another outstanding all-round athlete. Played both codes at the highest level (International Player of the Year in League and represented the Kiwis whilst winning 2 World Cups in union with the All Blacks). He’s even boxed as a pro as well. 7 wins out of 7.
Manu Tuilagi deserves a mention, he’s a freak. There’s no way they make jeans that would fit him. And yet, he’s ridiculously quick and agile whilst being that build and that powerful.
Soccer. Insane stamina and sprinting. Performance after running for 90 mins. There have been players measuring sprints that will place them at top 6 at olympics.
Skill. You all argue basketball has skill. While everyone can dribble and pass a ball with hands, please try doing so with legs.
Competitiveness and talent pool. The entire world, not only USA plays soccer. NBA and NHL draws talent pool mainly from USA, while soccer and top European clubs get players from all the world. The clubs are professional, extremelly well developed scouting system, medical system, the most complex tactics and coaching systems and etc. There is perhaps a billion kids in the world right now that dream to be a professional football… not sure if there are 50 mil kids that would like to make it to NBA or NHL.
That is like comparing MMA to boxing. Boxing is so well developed that MMA would need hundred years to get 50 % of the kids that would like to become boxers.
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No there absolutely have not. Here’s a list of the top 6 recorded speeds from the Premier League last season https://www.90min.com/posts/6340479-premier-league-fastest-players-the-6-quickest-during-the-2018-19-campaign
21-22mph is the top end for professional footballers recorded. Cristiano Ronaldo (probably the most complete athlete in football) clocked ca. 21mph at the World Cup last year. The top speeds in the top leagues were all around the 21-22 mph mark.
The speed of Olympic sprinters are arounfd 25-26mph.
Strength-wise, footballers are nowhere near rugby players or guys in the NFL either, yet athletes in those sports certainly match footballers for pace.
I am a huge football fan but they’re nowhere near the most well-rounded of athletes.
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Kostas Manolas from Roma, now Napoli was at 23 a couple of seasons ago. And he is not the fastest one out there. The reason they do not gain top speed is their sprints are usually short bursts. Ronaldo is far from the best athlete in the sport. I would give that to a stronger forward or a central defender or a full back. For example his team mate Mandzhukic is way more athletic. I d rate higher their central defenders as well.
Funny that you rate strength as athleticism, but not stamina, agility, quickness and etc. And in comparison NFL and rugby are a walk in the park or a chess game to the intensity of soccer. Even amateur soccer players average 10 km per game and half of it is in short sprints or intensive action.
soccer fans are the most myopic fans in all of sports.
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I can say that regarding the US sports. You would always announce them as a world competition, yet they are played mostly in the states… you do realise the talent pool and athletes entering in Rugby and NHL is lower than lets say a big soccer country such as Brasil for example.
To put it in a perspective - there is not good enough competition and a pool of athletes to make them the best well rounded athletes. The competition in soccer is about … 100 times bigger.
Let me give you another perspective. Come from Bulgaria. That is south east Europe. My town is 80 thousand people population. There are 4 amateur soccer divisions created by villages around my town. Every village has a soccer team and every given sunday there will be 100 people or more gathering to watch these games. Local guys playing, scouts watching, coaches, doctors, refs, some cathering. The local municipality would invest into this competition. I lived in Spain for few years. They have even more amateur leagues, a couple of them dedicated to emigrants.
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Yes, but when your recreational options are limited to buggering goats or watching grown men kick a ball in a field it’s not unreasonable to believe 100 out of 80,000 Bulgarians will choose to watch soccer.
It is more about 1600 men, but this was not the point. The point was. There is such a competition in local level to make it to the local professional teams. That is 40-50 amateur local teams. These are the reject and the youth trying to get noticed.
It takes a lot to make it to a professional. And it takes even more to make it to a top European club.
Lets put it another perspective. Locally volleyball and basketball are also big sports. Yet they draw the soccer rejects. Who ever will not make it to soccer, may try another sport if he likes it.
The popularity of a sport has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.
Soccer players will probably, on average, exceed athletes in others sports in certain criteria, fitness, endurance etc. But while they may be a little faster than, say, a rugby or american football player, they will be much MUCH weaker physically. When talking about ‘well rounded’ athletes, this almost by definition excludes people with very specific and specialised skill sets with glaring weaknesses in other areas.
The question of skill is moot because every sport at the highest level requires very high levels of skill, but skill is very hard to either define, or compare across sports. Its literally apples and oranges.
w.r.t sprint speed, there are loads of rugby players clocking sub 11s 100m sprints. Carlin Isles has clocked 10.13. Same in the NFL. There’s nothing unique about individual athletes being fast, it’s almost inevitable that there are some across a few sports who probably could have gone olympic 100m. They chose not to because that doesn’t pay the bills in the same way that pro soccer, nfl or other sports do.
And this was my point right there. People play soccer, because it pays the bills. Everything else outside of the states is paid less.
Another point you mention with the skill. If there are lets say 100 mil kids in a competition to be professionals and a 10 thousand kids in US in a competition to enter NHL… you do realise that the soccer kids have to be way more skilled due to higher competition.
Lastly regarding strength. I would not argue other sports produce stronger athletes, however I would argue that soccer players are weak to their weight. They squat heavy and have huge legs. Upperbody training and back training has been popular the last years.