The Media and Roids?

Off Topic
21

[quote]boxingash wrote:
I find it hilarious that someone who has never used steroids, and is against them, thus meaning you have done no research on them, is an apparent expert on what they can do. You are making the claim that Pro’s are Pro’s because of steroids, so ignorant.

I see a fallacy here… You don’t need to watch someone fall to their death by jumping off a bridge to be an expert on the fact that jumping off bridges is not a good idea…

I believe there is a little bit of truth in everything…Roids will make you more of who you really are.

But you should really exercise a little more depth of character here …

[/quote]

Boxingash, look I really don’t have a problem with you. But you already demonstrated your ignorance on this subject in the T-Vixen thread, do you feel necessary to do so again?

Every common side effect you can name I can tell you how to reverse it, or stop it. All the lies the media has spoon fed people about these “dangerous” side effects can be reversed in a matter of days.

Your analogy is a poor one, you are saying that taking steroids is essentially the same as jumping off a bridge to your death? Are you kidding me?

22

[quote]G87 wrote:
You seem to have the attitude that you can’t have a good physique without them. Who knows, maybe I’m reading you wrong here, but that’s the vibe I’m getting. You saying you don’t find “Natties impressive” stands out in my mind, especially.

What I feel the person you quoted was referring to is clueless dudes who jump into steroid use without doing the proper research, and putting in the time to get to know their body first. I agree with him - I think it’s fucking retarded, even though these guys DO seem to see good gains, at least in the short term.

Then again, the OP seems like a pretty douchey character after a re-read, so you may just be right on!

[/quote]

G87 when I said that natties don’t impress me I am referring to the pro Bodyduilding world. When I compare a IFBB pro to a natural Pro, the natty’s don’t impress, that goes across the board. I’ve already mentioned to Stu and to several others that they look great.

As it’s been mentioned natural bodybuilding is a conditioning contest. No offense to stu here or 1morerep, but if they walked past you in street clothes you’d probably just give them a passing glance.

Now in a swimsuit, you’d be like Damn those fellas look good. Now someone like Prisoner walks down the street and people will just stare regardless of what he’s wearing.

My problem with the OP is he is just making an assumption. He says he has seen “Too many” get big off just steroids. My question is, how many people is too many? 20? 30? And he knows all of these guys personally and knows they did no research and just jumped in and started doing steroids and got magically got massive?

That’s just not possible. Me, someone who avidly loves bodybuilding and pays tons of attention to it, has 4 people around me that I know either do or have taken steroids. I know probably 6-8 more in various states that do also.

Now the OP, who is completely against steroid use and wants nothing to do with it apparently has all this contact with steroid junkies and is saying HE KNOWS dudes just injected themselves one day and got big.

The truth is, the guys who jump right into it w/o having knowledge on what they are doing are the guys who don’t gain off of it b/c they don’t even know how to eat or train in the first place. All they get is a bad case of gyno.

So all in all, the OP made up that entire part of his post. The OP came on here to rant b/c he is out of shape and so he sees this big lean guys in the gym and wants to make the cop out of steroids so he can feel better about himself.

These are the same people that think Ronnie Coleman would just be an average sized dude if he never took steroids, it’s just stupid.

23

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
boxingash wrote:
I find it hilarious that someone who has never used steroids, and is against them, thus meaning you have done no research on them, is an apparent expert on what they can do. You are making the claim that Pro’s are Pro’s because of steroids, so ignorant.

I see a fallacy here… You don’t need to watch someone fall to their death by jumping off a bridge to be an expert on the fact that jumping off bridges is not a good idea…

I believe there is a little bit of truth in everything…Roids will make you more of who you really are.

But you should really exercise a little more depth of character here …

Boxingash, look I really don’t have a problem with you. But you already demonstrated your ignorance on this subject in the T-Vixen thread, do you feel necessary to do so again?

Every common side effect you can name I can tell you how to reverse it, or stop it. All the lies the media has spoon fed people about these “dangerous” side effects can be reversed in a matter of days.

Your analogy is a poor one, you are saying that taking steroids is essentially the same as jumping off a bridge to your death? Are you kidding me?[/quote]

You said that people who haven’t tried it the way you have don’t know what they are talking about. That’s not true. A scientist may have never used crystal meth, but they can still tell you what it will do to your body. I’m no scientist, but i have experience on a personal level.

You are 19 stop acting like a veteran. I’m young too and its cool to have an opinion, but realise that there is a little bit of truth you can take from everything that is being said here.

24

[quote]boxingash wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
boxingash wrote:
I find it hilarious that someone who has never used steroids, and is against them, thus meaning you have done no research on them, is an apparent expert on what they can do. You are making the claim that Pro’s are Pro’s because of steroids, so ignorant.

I see a fallacy here… You don’t need to watch someone fall to their death by jumping off a bridge to be an expert on the fact that jumping off bridges is not a good idea…

I believe there is a little bit of truth in everything…Roids will make you more of who you really are.

But you should really exercise a little more depth of character here …

Boxingash, look I really don’t have a problem with you. But you already demonstrated your ignorance on this subject in the T-Vixen thread, do you feel necessary to do so again?

Every common side effect you can name I can tell you how to reverse it, or stop it. All the lies the media has spoon fed people about these “dangerous” side effects can be reversed in a matter of days.

Your analogy is a poor one, you are saying that taking steroids is essentially the same as jumping off a bridge to your death? Are you kidding me?

You said that people who haven’t tried it the way you have don’t know what they are talking about. That’s not true. A scientist may have never used crystal meth, but they can still tell you what it will do to your body.[/quote] but they wont know how awesome it is if they havent tried it[quote] I’m no scientist, but i have experience on a personal level.

You are 19 stop acting like a veteran. I’m young too and its cool to have an opinion, but realise that there is a little bit of truth you can take from everything that is being said here.[/quote]

25

[quote]boxingash wrote:
You said that people who haven’t tried it the way you have don’t know what they are talking about. That’s not true. A scientist may have never used crystal meth, but they can still tell you what it will do to your body. I’m no scientist, but i have experience on a personal level.

You are 19 stop acting like a veteran. I’m young too and its cool to have an opinion, but realise that there is a little bit of truth you can take from everything that is being said here.[/quote]

A scientist yes, you however, are not a scientist and have no idea what you are talking about so until you come up with some facts other than “its like jumping off a bridge” just stop. Cool you had a friend who got addicted and ended up screwing his life up. What does that have to do with anything? That is not a side affect of steroids, it’s a side affect of being weak mentally.

who said I was a vet? This information is everywhere, all you have to do is look. That just goes to show how much you really know if you think what I’m telling you requires the experience and knowledge of a “vet”. I’ve hung out with and bounced ideas off of the real vets in the steroids forum for probably 4-6 months, and done plenty of research on my own. I can see that you still have yet to take any initiative and research AAS for yourself.

26

Media on Roids, hilarious!

http://movetheneedle.blogspot.com/2009/02/espns-tony-kornheiser-explains-why-he.html

27

I believe that professional athletes should use everything at their disposal to remain as strong and healthy as they can be for as long as they possibly can. Especially synthetic hormones that will treat or repair the soft tissue damage incured during an athletic performance.

I don’t understand why the viewing public and team owners don’t feel the same way.

In any other profession where repetative motion injury or any other type of on the job related injuries could occur, I doubt a supervisor or company owner would even bat an eye if he discovered that one of the best and most consistent employees was using chemical assistance to help turn out a better product or stay stronger longer.

28

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
boxingash wrote:
You said that people who haven’t tried it the way you have don’t know what they are talking about. That’s not true. A scientist may have never used crystal meth, but they can still tell you what it will do to your body. I’m no scientist, but i have experience on a personal level.

You are 19 stop acting like a veteran. I’m young too and its cool to have an opinion, but realise that there is a little bit of truth you can take from everything that is being said here.

A scientist yes, you however, are not a scientist and have no idea what you are talking about so until you come up with some facts other than “its like jumping off a bridge” just stop. Cool you had a friend who got addicted and ended up screwing his life up. What does that have to do with anything? That is not a side affect of steroids, it’s a side affect of being weak mentally.

who said I was a vet? This information is everywhere, all you have to do is look. That just goes to show how much you really know if you think what I’m telling you requires the experience and knowledge of a “vet”. I’ve hung out with and bounced ideas off of the real vets in the steroids forum for probably 4-6 months, and done plenty of research on my own. I can see that you still have yet to take any initiative and research AAS for yourself.[/quote]

I think you’re reading into her bridge reference incorrectly. I believe she meant that if you observe a person jumping off a tall bridge, you could probably safely assume the results based on a level of knowledge you have of physics. She was referring to your quote:

You don’t have to jump off the bridge to know the outcome. It’s a very simplistic analogy but it holds true in the way that just because someone does not do steroids, and may even be against them, does not necessarily correlate to their level of research on the subject. She wasn’t attacking you, or steroids(I don’t believe), but merely your assertion that it is impossible to be well versed in the subject without personal use or advocation of steroids.

With that said, I know why you jumped on her about it, because clearly MISCONCEPTION has some misconceptions about the subject, and is not someone who is informed about it. Also it sounds like ash has made some comments about steroids before I am unaware of which may have also provoked your response.

29

One thing ive always wondered about baseball (I’m not a huge fan)… Dont you think that Arod and Bonds are going up against pitches who juice also? I would imagine pitchers are some of the biggest users due to the healing effects.

I could care less what someone else does to their body. I am not one to judge them for it.

30

Yes red04, she had. This whole thing sparked because she made the comment in another thread that “you cannot be happy or healthy if you are not natural or use drugs.”

Then when I challenged her statement all she has come up with is that one of her friends became addicted to the benefits that steroids provided and “messed up his life”. And so according to her, steroids are evil, even though she has done no research on them and is basing her entire opinion on her friends addiction.

My point was that she hasn’t used them, hasn’t done any research on them, so how can she hope to argue with someone who has done both and hope to prove anything to me?

Her analogy was a blanket statement concerning the use of steroids. That’s like me telling someone who enjoys drinking that it is the equivalent of jumping off a bridge to your death. It’s just a foolish thing to say.

(And before anyone jumps on me about equating alcohol and steroids, go do some research and see which one has more related deaths or even emergency room visits. You will find alcohol is vastly ahead of steroids in that regard.)

31

the only thing that pisses me off, is that the ones who stay natural never get a fair playing field. The A rods of the world, and and clemens of the world would of been filled in by others who could of been not juiced to the gills.

32

[quote]RWElder0 wrote:

So many people in this country think that if you take a pill something magical happens. That you can hit a ball farther, or run faster or be thinner, etc. It just does not work like that. You have to work to get better at these things an 99.9% of the population is incapible of that sort of single minded dedication and sacrifice.

[/quote]

So i take it you never watched “Roger Ramjet” as a kid??

33

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I believe that professional athletes should use everything at their disposal to remain as strong and healthy as they can be for as long as they possibly can.

[/quote]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the above statement, particulary with the word healthy.

I for one would love to see the removal of simple substance test from sports and see them replaced with a general health test.

Athletes being allowed to use whatever they like as long as their liver is not damaged, cholesterol is acceptable, etc, and they also pass a psych/ mental test.

IMO it would even the playing field for all, as well as encourage safe and responsible use.
It would take a lot of education, cost alot of money, and require the changing of laws around the world, something which i doubt is going to happen any time soon.

34

[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
the only thing that pisses me off, is that the ones who stay natural never get a fair playing field. The A rods of the world, and and clemens of the world would of been filled in by others who could of been not juiced to the gills. [/quote]

I am going to assume we are still framing the discussion in terms of use in professional sports.

How could you even begin to quantify something like that? Attempting to dissect the effect of steroid use from simple development of athletes over time is an impossible task. Can we separate the increased hitting power of a player from his natural and practiced ability to hit?

I believe it to be clear that the attributes increased by steroid use are also increased with simple experience and training. Therefore just how much use might have effected the careers of any particular athlete is impossible to say.

That said it seems just as clear that the net effect of steroid use is positive toward athletic prowess. The point of this post is to highlight the absurdity of saying that “The A rods of the world, and and clemens of the world would [have] been filled in by others who could of been not juiced to the gills.” as if you could possibly quantify such a thing.

35

I really think its a matter of integrity. I think its simply the decline of sport. Theres simply no more integrity in sports any more, just a bunch of guys trying to catch their $10 Million a year and get on down the road. What happened to sport for sport’s sake? Steroid usage isn’t really the issue here. It pervades our society where everyone is just out to get their own.

Its really sad when guys back in the day used to play sports because they simply loved to play and now its just about getting to the front of the pack. Its alot more than the substances, its our culture, do we have any integrity as men any more?

36

[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
the only thing that pisses me off, is that the ones who stay natural never get a fair playing field. The A rods of the world, and and clemens of the world would of been filled in by others who could of been not juiced to the gills. [/quote]

A quite fitting screenname.

37

[quote]jerm wrote:
Its really sad when guys back in the day used to play sports because they simply loved to play and now its just about getting to the front of the pack. Its alot more than the substances, its our culture, do we have any integrity as men any more?[/quote]

Nahh, I don’t buy the whole romanticized view of “back in the day”

Back in the day- Babe Ruth used to get absolutely annhialated on anything he could get his hands on, then do what ever he wanted to or with who ever he wanted, with complete immunity.

The real question is Was there ever any integrity in sport or as men?

The public outcry you here in the media now is just the collective naivete of the American public being shattered.

38

I think now more than ever then is an opportunity to examine ourselves and make the right decisions and encourage the next generation, being our sons to make the right decisions as far as the usage of steroids, are we using them for the right thing? Are we actually using them to heal, to increase our natural potential or simply to get that scholarship, get that contract and get to the next level where we can get what those who chose not to use PEDs were left out of. This is the important thing to capture in this argument, steroids are not the problem, our integrity is.

And of course yes, Babe Ruth and whoever else used certain things, but don’t miss the point, the majority of the sports that are now massive multi-billion dollar conglomerates started out with a handful of tough as nails guys who just wanted to play some ball. If we are so hardcore and so manly, lets take it back to that, back to sport, back to the competitive spirit, not a corrupt one where its simply about “me and mine”.

Its disgusting to see how often we condone use and abuse simply “cause everyone else is doing it”. Screw everyone else, I’m going to stand up for what I enjoy in sports, which is the heart it requires to play and succeed.
We don’t need drugs running rampant in our society.

And trust me, theres no better incentive for a 16 year old kid to use stuff he shouldn’t be using than the idea kicking around that “everyone did it or does it” including my favorite superstar athlete. These guys need to get it right and start setting an example. They are in a tremendous position of responsibility as highly paid athletes.

39

[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
the only thing that pisses me off, is that the ones who stay natural never get a fair playing field. The A rods of the world, and and clemens of the world would of been filled in by others who could of been not juiced to the gills. [/quote]

You speak of professional sports as if it takes no talent or skills to become the best in the world in your respective sport. Yeah dude, they can make you stronger and faster, easier, but it sure as hell doesn’t put the bat to the ball, or help the oh-so-intricate coordination you overlook that it takes to play defense well. But you’re also foolish for underestimating how many guys are on SOMETHING. Shit I’m willing to bet most baseball players are (or were before all the shit came crashing down) taking something illegal, or not yet illegal. Whether it be amphetamines or AAS or whatever is on the market during the time, people have been finding ways to get an edge on the competition ever since the creation of organized sports.

40

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
the only thing that pisses me off, is that the ones who stay natural never get a fair playing field. The A rods of the world, and and clemens of the world would of been filled in by others who could of been not juiced to the gills.

You speak of professional sports as if it takes no talent or skills to become the best in the world in your respective sport. Yeah dude, they can make you stronger and faster, easier, but it sure as hell doesn’t put the bat to the ball, or help the oh-so-intricate coordination you overlook that it takes to play defense well. But you’re also foolish for underestimating how many guys are on SOMETHING. Shit I’m willing to bet most baseball players are (or were before all the shit came crashing down) taking something illegal, or not yet illegal. Whether it be amphetamines or AAS or whatever is on the market during the time, people have been finding ways to get an edge on the competition ever since the creation of organized sports.[/quote]

I think the biggest influence to aas has in sports such as baseball is the speed of recovery from injuries and/ or injury prevention.

you can’t tell me that playing upto 160 games a year won’t wear you down. especially playing at such a high level.

i mean come on, barry bonds is 45, he should be loosing lbm and athletic ability each and every year it’s part of the ageing process.

further i belive once you hit the ball (assuming it’s not out of the park) you have to run, which is the most fundimental aspect of athletic performance power. oh yeah and when you field i think you get to the ball quicker as well.

saying aas dosen’t make you good/ great at technical aspects of anything is one thing, but saying that it can’t improve the technical aspect of a sport in an already good/ great players is an entirely different conversation all together.

seriously, simple aggression may make someone hit a ball further.
depending on how they react to or conrtrol their stress/ excitment levels.