bummmmmmmmp
I will answer these tomorrow or Thursday; sorry, but I’ve got to sleep!
Stay strong
MR
sleep well
The “area” looks like where the ITB attaches on the tibia. If your knees are collapsing in, you could be (as someone stated) tearing the fascia to some extent.
You need the same advice as many:
- Get rid of the swelling/inflammation
- Stretch the heck out of everything around your hips/knees
- Check into foam rolling/ART/massage
- Strengthen the glute max and glute medius
- Once you are feeling good again, be smart and progressively work your way back into the iron
This is kind of a blanket answer, but the best I can do for an internet diagnosis. Let me know what you find out!
Stay strong
MR
[quote]ohagajosh wrote:
ok so I had one post explaining the blue marker on my knee with another pic, but it was too big to go threw…anyway the blue marker outlines the area in which it hurts. Gradually as my knee gets somewhat better each time the pain is reduced to only palpation on that blue circle/dot in the pic of my knee above OR when I apply inward pressure to the outside of my knee. so far pain at this dot has never gone away like the rest of my knee the previous two times. Since it only hurt to palpate or put a lot of inward presure I thought it would be ok to squat since this didnt’ seemt o major to me…i guess I was wrong…enough rambling though, I need some help with what to do and what the problem is.[/quote]
Check out some of my above answers; I know I’ve discussed the many various reasons for knee clicking.
Have you had someone do a McMurray or Appley’s test on your knee? A good ortho/PT should be able to give you an idea if it’s torn or not w/one of these tests.
Stay strong
MR
[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
I was scoped once and they cut out the plica from my right knee. My knee still clicks on the medial side when I squat low enough. Im worried that it might be a medial meniscal tear. But it was scoped. The doctor said it was in good shape. The problem is, right now im not covered under insurance - i was before. So i cant get an MRI scan to see if thats the case. What should i do? 
(surgery in October 2004)[/quote]
Thanks Mike. I’ll heed your advice.
I have developed pain in both knees over the past 18 months. The pain occurs above the kneecaps, and only occurs when I’m doing deep squats (or other movements where the knee is weighted and highly flexed).
My knee pain started developing at roughly the same time I started Olympic lifting and consistently squatting. I squat ATG (hamstrings rest on the calves in the bottom position), and most of my squat sets are in the low rep ranges (5 or fewer).
I supplement with Glucosamine/Condroitin, flax seed, and I recently started taking fish oil, but these do not seem to have reduced the symptoms.
Obviously a true diagnoses is impossible over the internet, but – Have you had any experience with symptoms like these? I don’t want to stop squatting or O-lifting, but I worry about the long-term health of my knees. I have not yet consulted an orthopedist, but probably will if the pain continues – I’m afraid that the doctor will just tell me to curtail my lifting.
Any advice/insight is appreciated. Thanks for a great forum!
Alright Mike this is my list of things.
Mcmurray and Appley’s test next time i see a doctor.
MRI if needed when my insurance covers me again.
ART - I doubt there is any of this in Grand Forks North Dakota out of luck for a while…
EPA/DHA - what is this stuff? Sounds like I will have to order some
Glucosamine/chondrotin - MSM too?
Foam rolling - how about “the stick” i use that i think it accomplishes the same thing.
Internally rotated femur - after a few months of doing deadlifts and some Glute ham raises i still have that on my bad leg side - could this cause the medial side clicking from some tendon that is pushed out of place due to how my leg moves because of the internal rotation?
Hip Abduction - that explains why when i did ab and adduction excersizes my condition improved greatly (this was before i read NNM)
External rotation (weak) - how do i strengthen that? have someoen hold my foot while i push?
Hardcore stretching - will check that out
I noticed my VL seems very small compared to my VMO especially on the right leg (effected leg) - so wide squats to help that? (i noticed i click less if i do them wide … after i tried them recently… before that I have always done my squats about 10 inches apart for specificity for cyclign)
Serrapetase (serrapetidase) and bromalain - what do you think about those?
[quote]Mike Robertson wrote:
Check out some of my above answers; I know I’ve discussed the many various reasons for knee clicking.
Have you had someone do a McMurray or Appley’s test on your knee? A good ortho/PT should be able to give you an idea if it’s torn or not w/one of these tests.
Stay strong
MR
Jagrazor wrote:
I was scoped once and they cut out the plica from my right knee. My knee still clicks on the medial side when I squat low enough. Im worried that it might be a medial meniscal tear. But it was scoped. The doctor said it was in good shape. The problem is, right now im not covered under insurance - i was before. So i cant get an MRI scan to see if thats the case. What should i do?
(surgery in October 2004)
[/quote]
I would virtually guarantee you have some sort of quadriceps tendinopathy going on; the thing that really screams out at me is the fact that you are doing all these Olympic squats all of a sudden.
Check out EC’s “ACSM Recap” for ways to deal with tendinopathy.
Stay strong
MR
[quote]twoolf wrote:
I have developed pain in both knees over the past 18 months. The pain occurs above the kneecaps, and only occurs when I’m doing deep squats (or other movements where the knee is weighted and highly flexed).
My knee pain started developing at roughly the same time I started Olympic lifting and consistently squatting. I squat ATG (hamstrings rest on the calves in the bottom position), and most of my squat sets are in the low rep ranges (5 or fewer).
I supplement with Glucosamine/Condroitin, flax seed, and I recently started taking fish oil, but these do not seem to have reduced the symptoms.
Obviously a true diagnoses is impossible over the internet, but – Have you had any experience with symptoms like these? I don’t want to stop squatting or O-lifting, but I worry about the long-term health of my knees. I have not yet consulted an orthopedist, but probably will if the pain continues – I’m afraid that the doctor will just tell me to curtail my lifting.
Any advice/insight is appreciated. Thanks for a great forum![/quote]
I’ve edited this down for bandwith’s sake!
EPA/DHA is fish oil; run a search here and you’ll get about 10,000 hits
MSM is fine to add to that compound
The stick is ok, but I don’t feel it’s effective as the roller. Your choice, though.
To combat the internal rotation you need to work on loosening up the hip flexors, adductors and TFL/ITB, while strengthening the hip external rotators (e.g. your glutes).
Check out the NNM and Get Your Butt In Gear Article series’; they both discuss activation/strengthening techniques for the gluteals.
Yes, try some wide stance squats for a while.
I don’t know anything about the former supplement, but bromelain is a good anti-inflammatory.
Stay strong
MR
OK… im sorry to say that i did not read all the other posts to check if my question has been answered already… buut, here goes;
About 4 monthes ago, during Track season, i got a very bad case of shin splints. Long story short, they suck, and im not sure if they are gone yet, but i just started running again and now my KNEES hurt like mad. For example, i just went on a 20 minute run, and my legs were like molasses the whole time and my knees began to freeze up in achey pain. I have never had this problem before even after taking a year off from running due to another injury. I stretch very well and i take anti-inflammatories/multivitamins etc.
And now when i stand up my legs ache like i just ran a marathon or something.
Puzzled,
-M
Mike,
What do you mean by “terminal knee extensions” for the VMO?
Thanks
Mike,
I have been experiencing pain and stiffness in my left knee for almost 2 weeks straight. For instance, If I were to descend into a squat (I experience no pain during the descent) stop at thighs parallel to the floor and then begin to ascend, I notice that as I ascend I feel a popping sensation in my left knee on the lateral side. It feels like either the ITB or possibly a ligament is “grabbing” as I come up.
If I sit in a chair for too long with my legs bent at a 90 degree angle and then go to stand up I feel the same popping/grabbing sensation in my left knee as a I stand and straighten the leg. I get a sudden sharp pain as it pops/grabs and then releases. I don’t believe there is any cartilage/ligament damage, because I have no pain when I balance on the weak leg (i.e. the knee doesn’t feel like it’s about to give out on me). I don’t have discomfort when I walk either (which is odd).
I only experience pain when the knee is bent at 90 degress or beyond and then straightened. I think I may have ITBS and the popping/grabbing sensation is caused by the ITB rubbing on the bone.
Some background on me: I’m 30 years old and have been lifting consistently for 11 straight years. I have squatted 330 lbs. for 20 reps down to parallel, and can deadlift 365 for 20 reps @ 6’1" 212 lbs. I’m surprised I am having a knee problems because I am fairly strong in these two exercises. I have never done a strength cycle without including either the squat or the deadlift in some variation, so this is probably and overuse injury.
I will admit that I have not been diligent about warming up and stretching (which will now change). I have begun to use a roller to “massage” the ITB in both of my legs (man is it PAINFUL)and I have noticed a slight improvement. The knee is not grabbing/popping as often since I started using the roller to massage the ITB.
One final note: The pain/stiffness in the left knee began about 2 weeks after playing beach volleyball for a couple of hours. I had not played beach volleyball in over a year. The very next day was when this problem began. (I also experience pain/stiffness in the right knee—but not as bad as the left knee)
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you to have the full background.
What are your thoughts?
THANKS
Shin splints, eh?
Here’s a nice recipe that I’ve used with success:
- Stretch the gastroc, soleus and Achilles
- Foam roll the calves and tibialis anterior; massage/ART are good toi if you have the resources
- Use a DARD to strengthen the tibialis anterior
- Figure out what the cause of the problem is! I would start with your feet and work up from there. If not, you’ll keep suffering everytime you start to train hard again.
Stay strong
MR
[quote]sinnaman18 wrote:
OK… im sorry to say that i did not read all the other posts to check if my question has been answered already… buut, here goes;
About 4 monthes ago, during Track season, i got a very bad case of shin splints. Long story short, they suck, and im not sure if they are gone yet, but i just started running again and now my KNEES hurt like mad. For example, i just went on a 20 minute run, and my legs were like molasses the whole time and my knees began to freeze up in achey pain. I have never had this problem before even after taking a year off from running due to another injury. I stretch very well and i take anti-inflammatories/multivitamins etc.
And now when i stand up my legs ache like i just ran a marathon or something.
Puzzled,
-M[/quote]
Check out Dave Tate’s “Toolbox” series; he goes over TKE’s in one of those.
Stay strong
MR
[quote]Gridiron wrote:
Mike,
What do you mean by “terminal knee extensions” for the VMO?
Thanks [/quote]
Grid,
Unless you did some damage to the cartilage or a ligament, chances are the volleyball were just the straw that broke the camels back!
You’re right on with the roller, but I’d check into massage/ART of the lateral structures as well. TKE’s could help re-balance things around the knee joint.
I think you also answered your own question when you said you don’t warm-up and don’t stretch! Check out my “Hardcore Stretching” series and tell me how tight you are after you go through the low body stretches. Remember, strength can help keep you injury free, but so can improved flexibility and mobility.
Let me know how things go!
Stay strong
MR
[quote]Gridiron wrote:
Mike,
I have been experiencing pain and stiffness in my left knee for almost 2 weeks straight. For instance, If I were to descend into a squat (I experience no pain during the descent) stop at thighs parallel to the floor and then begin to ascend, I notice that as I ascend I feel a popping sensation in my left knee on the lateral side. It feels like either the ITB or possibly a ligament is “grabbing” as I come up.
If I sit in a chair for too long with my legs bent at a 90 degree angle and then go to stand up I feel the same popping/grabbing sensation in my left knee as a I stand and straighten the leg. I get a sudden sharp pain as it pops/grabs and then releases. I don’t believe there is any cartilage/ligament damage, because I have no pain when I balance on the weak leg (i.e. the knee doesn’t feel like it’s about to give out on me). I don’t have discomfort when I walk either (which is odd).
I only experience pain when the knee is bent at 90 degress or beyond and then straightened. I think I may have ITBS and the popping/grabbing sensation is caused by the ITB rubbing on the bone.
Some background on me: I’m 30 years old and have been lifting consistently for 11 straight years. I have squatted 330 lbs. for 20 reps down to parallel, and can deadlift 365 for 20 reps @ 6’1" 212 lbs. I’m surprised I am having a knee problems because I am fairly strong in these two exercises. I have never done a strength cycle without including either the squat or the deadlift in some variation, so this is probably and overuse injury.
I will admit that I have not been diligent about warming up and stretching (which will now change). I have begun to use a roller to “massage” the ITB in both of my legs (man is it PAINFUL)and I have noticed a slight improvement. The knee is not grabbing/popping as often since I started using the roller to massage the ITB.
One final note: The pain/stiffness in the left knee began about 2 weeks after playing beach volleyball for a couple of hours. I had not played beach volleyball in over a year. The very next day was when this problem began. (I also experience pain/stiffness in the right knee—but not as bad as the left knee)
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you to have the full background.
What are your thoughts?
THANKS [/quote]
Thanks Mike. I greatly apprecite the feedback. I have been “rollin’” for just 3 days and I am already feeling a difference.
You’re offering a great service to all of us here on the board. Keep up the great work!
I’ll keep you posted on my progress.
THANKS
Grid,
Glad I could help! Keep working on those tissues and hopefully things will clear up nicely for you.
Stay strong
MR
[quote]Gridiron wrote:
Thanks Mike. I greatly apprecite the feedback. I have been “rollin’” for just 3 days and I am already feeling a difference.
You’re offering a great service to all of us here on the board. Keep up the great work!
I’ll keep you posted on my progress.
THANKS[/quote]
I want to provide a progress report to my 6/3 post where I complained about Baker’s cysts in both knees, pain and swelling, and inability to completely flex or straighten my knee. I had surgery to trim the medial meniscus in May 2004 and underwent 7 weeks of PT after the surgery. The problems flared up again about seven months later. I have been doing a lot of rehab work on my own since June, and I am happy to report that I am about 95% recovered. I am finally pain free, can completely extend my knee and contract my quad, have almost full flexability, and my VMO is at long last making an appearance. I can do any lower body exercise, including squats and DLs, although I doubt if I’ll every attempt any plyometrics.
I’m listing everything I’ve been doing so that those of you in T-Land who are also experiencing knee pain may benefit.
- First I took ibuprofen for a couple of weeks to get rid of the Baker’s cysts.
- I stretch my hip flexors several times a week.
- I use the foam roller on the IT band, roll the adductors on a PVC pipe, and roll my quad up and down on a softball (lying prone and flexing and straightening my lower leg).
- I do the following exercises for knee strengthening: TKE’s, supine single leg hip extension, single leg body weight box squat (pistols), and single leg cycling on a stationary bike (must have a pedal strap).
Maybe someone on this thread can add to this list.
Hi everyone,
In the past I sufferred some serious damage to the aritcular cartilage in my right knee and have taken a long time to get back into doing lower body exercises as a result. I still feel some effects (it’s never going to be the same as pre-injury) such as stiffness or mild soreness if I push things too hard, but mostly it seems to be going OK.
After reading about it on T-Nation as well as seeing it advertised, I’ve just bought some glucosamine for the first time to see if this will lead to an improvement in how my knee feels. I was wondering what success you guys have had using this product, especially those who have injured articular cartilage in the past. Did you notice a difference at all?
How long did it take to notice the difference? Did a particular strength of tablet work while others didn’t?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Ben