Speaking of when citizens take thing into their owns hands
Gary Plauche
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As some here know, I have spoken about the increase in violent subway crime in New York over the past two years, as well as the entire country and schools. And as I’ve said, the notion that people can avoid this by moving to a “better area” or “nice town”, though it can reduce risk, isn’t an absolute solution for people at large. Numerous attacks were made on people in nice areas of NYC in the past few years.
I’ve been living in Long Island for five years and will not be visiting Manhattan and using the subways to get around. My cousin uses the subways daily. And as I’ve said, I know of women who stand with their backs against walls or columns and will not wear headphones while waiting for a train. This is not a normal way to live.
In conversing on here and in person about this, and the degradation of US society (as I’ve spoken at length about in the Balkanization thread), I’ve been told things are not that bad, and that “it’s not as bad as the eighties.”
My wonders:
- If this situation is not that bad, then what is? Are people implying that I and others are just alarmist and paranoid?
- If a situation is terrible, why is there comparison to a time when matters were even worse? What kind of a standard is this?
- How are untrained or even trained people supposed to defend themselves? Unfortunately and regrettably I am untrained, though I plan on getting some training in the future. If confronted and afraid and I were to believe there is no way out, I’m likely going to strike when unexpected, maul, bite, gouge eyes, or use a weapon—pretty much act like a freaking animal. And no, I don’t mean some stupid stuff like, “I’m gonna see red, bro! Ya’ll have never seen me when I’m angry!” But untrained people can find themselves in positions in which they easily lose, or in cases of getting upper hands on scary yet ill-equipped aggressors, kill them.
All of the above clips are from the past two years. I can go on a lot more.
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This is another situation I remember viewing on YouTube, also from two years ago.
See the 40-second mark, in which a man is “just yelling.” What shocked me then, and what still shocks me to this day, is when viewing such scenes, people actually behave as if such aggression is “just yelling.” They don’t flee! Is there some type of mental shutdown in ordinary, non-criminal people that interrupts the fight-or-flight response?
I know when a man screams like that, he is not playing games! I’m also not someone that allows myself to be close to street “entertainers.”
Yes, I know there’s an older guy in this video who likely was scared and thought he couldn’t run fast enough. If I were in that situation, while I had distance and the guy was screaming, I’d take off, dip between cars, whatever to get away.
My mom and her side of the family came to NYC in the 80s and say that NYC was worse then, but that it’s close to that bad now.
I honestly have no clue what to do as a New Yorker (that’s still what I consider home). Most young people I know there have accepted the way things are, and if anything, are supportive of things like police defunding, lighter jail sentences, getting people out of jail, etc. Most people below 35 in NYC seem to support what is causing crime to get worse.
So expect this to get worse, if anything. Being a New Yorker, this issue really bothers me.
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Yup. See my other post above.@startingagain
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Littering, maybe.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some very good lawyers willing to defend him pro bono. The crazy thing is that it’s NYC so he shouldn’t have to worry about getting convicted. I mean, the person he killed was arrested close to 50 times and he was free. I smell a double standard.
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@startingagain @twojarslave do you have two have any thoughts on this?
Yes, “tonic immobility” or “freeze response” can occur in people and interrupt the fight-or-flight response. This response is a survival strategy that some animals and humans use when confronted with extreme danger, where instead of fighting or fleeing, they become immobilized or “freeze”. This response is thought to be an automatic defense mechanism that helps to reduce the risk of injury or death in situations where fighting or fleeing would be futile or impossible.
In humans, this response can occur during traumatic events such as sexual assault, where victims may become temporarily paralyzed and unable to fight back or flee.
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That’s true. But what I’ve also seen is not a freeze, but just an attempt to ignore. For example some raving person boards a subway car and intrudes on everyone’s space by screaming, and yet people continue to read, stare at phones, eat, and so on. No one’s face perk up, no one is moving, no one is finding another spot, nothing.
Yes, absolutely. People freeze up in bad situations regularly. I have.
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I would guess that people have become desensitized to such behavior or have learned to tolerate it as a part of their daily lives. Probably due to repeated exposure to similar situations, especially in densely populated areas where people are exposed to unusual behavior in public spaces. It is also possible that some people may have a natural tendency to avoid confrontation or may not know how to appropriately respond to such situations, making them freeze or ignore the situation.
I know when I was younger, I was definitely guilty of the former.
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@startingagain do you think this might be a cope?
Sorry if I have too many questions. I’m just baffled by this.
You’re a fellow NYC’er, so we have commonality.
I can’t speak for the 80s since I’ve only heard about other’s experiences. My mom and her friends talked about how entire neighborhoods in Manhattan were no-go zones in the 80s due to gangs/crime. We’re nowhere near that bad right now. The only true no-go zone are the subways, which can thankfully be avoided.
My main concern is that I only see this getting worse due to what young people value.
As for people watching: Freezing up from shock definitely exists. Lots of NYCs also seem to be so desensitized that they just apathetically watch. The urge to record everything also can’t help.
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For example some raving person boards a subway car and intrudes on everyone’s space by screaming, and yet people continue to read, stare at phones, eat, and so on. No one’s face perk up, no one is moving, no one is finding another spot, nothing.
Yeah, definitely apathy. My wife and I’s usual response to bizarre behavior in the subways was to laugh, but we’d make sure to hide our faces and not stare for more than a split second. Most people would react like you described, though. If you’re half alseep from work and a long commute, you’re just going to try to tune out the craziness as best as you can. The first few times you might try to change train cars, but after a while you get used to the weirdness. Also, if you react differently from the crowd then you’re more likely to be a target.
On that note, I sincerely call bullshit on the majority of these people being irrational crazies. If you notice their targets, it’s usually frail old people, women who aren’t with a guy, and/or frail Asians. How often do these people attack 200+ lbs men? These people are a lot more rational and scummy than they let on. Seriously, I’d love to see them try to push a heavyweight-sized guy onto the tracks, but they always seem to be smart enough to avoid doing that.
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A BJJ black belt provided they aren’t 100lbs will destroy 99.9% of the untrained population
Even a blue belt with solid wrestling fundamentals will destroy 85-90% of those within 15-20 lbs of said blue belt
Teaches you to strip grips, sweep/get out of bad positions, use graded degrees of force (important from a legal context), control opponent etc.
Caveats being… it HAS to be 1v1, no sharp objects/weapons.
Where I live, it’s USUALLY a gang of teenage delinquents or a tweaker. For the former, no amount of training can save you from 6-12 guys.
From what i’ve noted, BJJ seems to be very prone to causing injury for practitioners.
Almost every BJJ guy/grappler I know is constantly dealing with some sort of nagging injury. Back, hips, knees, fingers, elhows, shoulders, herniated disks etc. However out of the sample pool, my anecdotes account for people who are competitive and train 6+ times per week.
With striking it seems to be more “concussions, broken ribs, shin splints”. However long term striking causes CTE for those predisposed and/or those who engage in gym wars. Wrestling CAN cause CTE (yes it can! Think about how many high school wrestlers wind up with concussions!) But less likely than boxing. But many of the strikers I know/knew train 2-4x/wk as a hobby.
I have never seen data to suggest BJJ can cause cte. However cartoid artery dissection is a legitimate risk with BJJ, and it isn’t spoken about akin to how CTE has been pushed under the rug for so long in striking.
Look up “bjj, had a stroke” and you’ll see what I’m talking about. We are talking about strokes in yoing people (20’s, 30’s) who aren’t predisposed caused by the strain induced from blood chokes.
Having tried both, and having cumulatively trained in striking for quite a number of years I tend to THINK that grappling probably is harder on the body. However I only ever got hurt in striking. I’m very hypermobile (pathologically so), submissions like kimuras don’t really work on me… though it sure did gross people out “what the FUCK! People shouldn’t bend like that!”
I wonder how common injuries would be for hobbyists (2-3x/wk) training in either striking or grappling. The problem is… if you like martial arts, it can be very difficult to stick to 2-3xwk.
Imagine telling a bodybuilder ‘only lift 2-3x/wk’.
Given how many people on here train or have trained in combat sports, I’m suprised no one has come up with the idea to create or revitalise a thread surrounding this topic.
Less risky to take the tiny chance that something REALLY bad will happen than to do something that will be recorded, go viral, and make you That Racist! Let’s call it like it is.
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In wrestling we actually only trained a combination of warm up, drills, percent of “live” and actual live rounds for 1.5 hrs per day with lighter practices before matches, so 3x per week, for a few months out of the year- with a designated conditioning only period for a few weeks prior to the season- and supplemental summer wrestling camps for kids who could afford it. And these are programs that produced olympic athletes.
When I see dudes posting about lifting 4x/week & training bjj 6 days a week I just shake my head.
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That’s likely it. I just cannot relate. While I don’t walk around scared of my own shadow, I’m always aware of my surroundings and I don’t take peculiar behavior lightly. I will never ever blame victims of violent crime; however, there has been news footage I’ve viewed and despite my heart going out to them, thought, “How the hell did you not see this coming?!” But, people should not have to live like this in the first place.
My granddad worked in the South Bronx in the late 70s and early 80s. My mom and her family had to move from the Bronx and then from Lefrack City. Northeastern Queens, though not a no-go area, and not as violent, had a fair share of brawlers and criminals in the 80s to early 90s too; it was also a hot spot of the graffiti scene back then.
It actually made me more sensitized.
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