Charles Bronson would know how to handle the Death Wish situations
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Now that more information is available, it looks like this was not a true RNC, at least as to my very non-expert understanding. Video shows the fellow flailing about for quite some time even after the Marine had secured his arm around the fellow’s neck, which I understand is just not going to happen in a properly applied RNC. Also, it appears that the Marine lets go within seconds after someone else announces that the fellow had gone limp. That’s quite different from my impression from the initial reports, which made it sound like a martial arts expert had put someone in an RNC and just kept him there in reckless disregard of the consequences.
Can you link the more complete video?
Hell, George Floyd lifted Derek Chauvin’s entire body with his neck while being intentionally and maliciously killed.
There is a lot of truth to this. But in terms of pure control, there are better options. As you say, the problem is that the only way to increase the controlling capacity of an RNC is to apply force that is increasingly lethal. Compare that to a “gift wrap” control (ex. arm wrapped around the neck) which is very powerful but has little if any lethal potentiality.
A few years ago, a jiu-jitsu black belt tried to subdue someone on a bus using an RNC. He was shot in the face.
https://jiujitsutimes.com/jiu-jitsu-instructor-killed-trying-to-disarm-a-robber-on-a-bus/
This article doesn’t describe the technique used. But my recollection contemporaneously is that it was an RNC.
I’ll give some credit to Rener Gracie and Gracie University’s Combatives course. I haven’t taken it (non LEOs are not allowed). But from what I’ve seen, it does a great job of teaching truly effective “control” techniques.
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We’re getting off-topic, but I must dive down this rabbit hole.
If you’re talking about a physically powerful or even a really fit BJJ blackbelt imposing his will on an untrained random person, I would agree.
For the grappler trained at the level I’m at, I’m taking the RNC every time off of the mats, should the option present itself. Put them to sleep and then you can gift wrap them, take high mount with knees-in-armpits, pin their arms, or just put them wherever you want. Simply putting on the squeeze with a RNC always got the kind of reaction I wanted, which was just giving up the struggle. I never needed to sleep anyone.
It was there if I needed it, and that’s a good option to have.
Gift-wrapping is great. I got to that position quite a bit on the mats, as you would expect from a really big and strong guy who can just lay on the arm when it crosses the torso or get to it using my weirdly big skull. I like holding people down in side control too, especially if I can lace their legs by posting my arm in between their thighs while posting my other elbow against their head. Most people are just stuck at that point, and that’s great.
I’m not a good enough grappler to hunt those positions, not when the whistle blows and the game is on. I’m always looking to knock on the front door first.
To bring the topic back to the subject-at-hand, you cannot expect any form of decisive grappling from whoever has enough balls to confront the violent crazy person on the subway.
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This is another thing: Society has become so pussified that it seems everyone just assumes anyone who puts up any resistance to shitbags is some sort of trained super ninja. It’s sad.
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Yeah. You just never know who you’re fucking with, or how.
Like, I have a lot of problems. I know that I have a lot of problems, and do my best to keep away from stuff like large crowds, places where people are easily targeted- generally just keep to myself- Because I know that my response to things, especially angry yelling, people getting in my face/personal space, etc. Is abnormal and usually very violent.
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You learn who you are fucking with when the violence takes place, and you rarely get to choose the moment that it does.
That’s the mind-fuck of violence that people who have never experienced it often lose sight of.
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Thats kind of the thing. Somebody could be running at the mouth and feeling like, a little extra strong or confident or what ever, but what they don’t realize is that someone like me has been exposed to real and severe violence from an early age has a completely different scale and response to aggression.
And once something starts- its not over. Not by a long shot. It has happened way too many times that someone thinks putting their hands up and saying “whoa enough” or what ever means its over. I’m unleashing demons at that point.
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Interesting thoughts. We’ll agree to disagree on the efficacy of the gift wrap vs RNC as a control mechanism.
I did want to correct one mistake I made: the program I meant to refer to is not Gracie Combatives, which is what they call their regular training. It’s actually called Gracie Survival Tactics.
https://www.gracieuniversity.com/Pages/Public/Informationpages/graciesurvivaltactics2
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Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t call the gift wrap a bad option at all. It’s just not what I would look for first in this type of situation. If the gift wrap is right there, I’d take it. Same with a lot of other positions. I’d still rather sleep him and then get him completely under control. And that’s only if I somehow decided that I had to confront him instead of just leaving his crazy ass alone.
You also have more grappling training than 99.9 percent of men, whereas I only have more grappling training than maybe 95 percent of men. I’m only a slightly refined goon.
The article you linked above illustrates why I don’t hang my hat on my jiu jitsu when I’m out minding my own business, as well as the risks involved with inserting yourself into violent situations. Jiu Jitsu isn’t worth a lick of salt against someone armed with a gun. Even that highly-trained black belt failed to control the weapon.
That’s why I choose a Sig Sauer P365 over my grappling skills to defend myself. Unfortunately for the people of NYC, they typically don’t have that option.
The course you linked looks like a fantastic concept for LEO’s. My instructor’s coach offers free training to any and all active LEO’s. I’d like to see the Gracie brand do the same.
Now, if society can just figure out how to sequester guys with 44 arrests in the last decade along with attracting and retaining qualified LEO’s, we may not have to have more debates about how untrained civilians ought to be handling the violent psychopaths terrorizing people in a confined subway car.
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This is the most complete video I’ve seen so far. You all tell me what you think.
Manslaughter
Wow, that’s a lot different picture than what I’ve read in the news.
Neely appears to get KO’d right around the 2:00 mark, when his legs stop moving. The marine releases about 55 seconds later. The question I have is how long and how hard was he squeezing during those 55 seconds? The guy pinning the arm says the marine is not squeezing right around 33 seconds after he seems to go to sleep.
The marine is also clearly trying to help after he put Neely to sleep.
It is NYC, so I still think charges are likely. Some form of manslaughter.
Anyone remember this case of a New Yorker who defended himself against multiple robbers—ahem… I mean “vigilante” who terrorized robbers?
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Another nutcase with irresponsible gun usage trying to be Jason Todd.
@tlgains He was confronted by four robbers who, if I recall correctly, had sharpened screwdrivers on them.
Is there an appropriate way to take on four men?
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Shoot, but don’t gloat about violence.
He got his ass kicked a few times before that whole thing went down i believe. Like robbed and hospitalized.
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