The Fix for the Economy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

There are a number of reasons for the horrible economy in which America finds itself in today, but the number one reason is the lack of jobs.

The reason for lack of jobs again is for a few reasons, but the main reason is outsourcing. I do not blame outsourcing on the business execs or politicians allowing it to happen. The blame needs to be placed on the American people for buying those products that are made in other countries. This in turn chiefly blames the American people for its own economic peril.

I have heard many reasons why people buy the products of other countries and they are completely unfounded, especially the one about foreign products being cheaper. If one was to do a little research, they would find the same products made in the States as foreign countries to resemble each other. Americans just don’t care and now we are paying for it.

If Americans want to turn the economy around, we need to be responsible to our selves and buy the products we make.

2

[quote]J Eldred wrote:
There are a number of reasons for the horrible economy in which America finds itself in today, but the number one reason is the lack of jobs.

The reason for lack of jobs again is for a few reasons, but the main reason is outsourcing. I do not blame outsourcing on the business execs or politicians allowing it to happen. The blame needs to be placed on the American people for buying those products that are made in other countries. This in turn chiefly blames the American people for its own economic peril.

I have heard many reasons why people buy the products of other countries and they are completely unfounded, especially the one about foreign products being cheaper. If one was to do a little research, they would find the same products made in the States as foreign countries to resemble each other. Americans just don’t care and now we are paying for it.

If Americans want to turn the economy around, we need to be responsible to our selves and buy the products we make. [/quote]

Why arbitrarily draw the line at Americas borders?

Why not the US?

Why not your state?

Why not your city, your block, your family, you alone?

If what you are proposing really made sense, everyone should grow his own food, make his own clothes, build his own house and so on., thereby maximizing his wealth.

Since that is clearly a recipe for disaster, what makes you think that any step in that direction could make America better off?

3

This is so backwards it’s amazing. Protectionism never has and never will be the solution, only the problem.

You should make goods where they may be made at the lowest cost. Every person should conduct business in which they have a competitive advantage

4

So every company should be looking for the countries with the least amount of labor laws, the least amount of pollution laws, and the poorest population to make their products?

5

[quote]suruppak wrote:
So every company should be looking for the countries with the least amount of labor laws, the least amount of pollution laws, and the poorest population to make their products?
[/quote]

NO, companies should look to satisfy their customers in the best way they can. If that means producing in China/Mexico vs. America, so be it.

6

[quote]suruppak wrote:
So every company should be looking for the countries with the least amount of labor laws, the least amount of pollution laws, and the poorest population to make their products?
[/quote]

No, because for a lot of companies that would not make any sense, especially for the most capital intensive and the least capital intensive ones, meaning those needing highly qualified personnel and the service industry that cannot be outsourced.

7

Shookers, thanks for the clarification, it looked to me like you were saying that the companies should make goods where the cost was lowest, period.

I’m not sure that most companies move their businesses to Mexico or China, or their tech support to India, in order to best satisfy their customers however.

Anecdotally, I haven’t met anyone that is glad a particular product is made in China or Mexico, or are glad that when their computer breaks their tech support helpdesk is in India.

I can also see that lower prices would satisfy consumers, that is a valid point. However, I personally have not seen any product that was once produced in the US, that became noticeably cheaper upon moving to Mexico or China.

Orion, I definitely see where it wouldn’t make sense in those two cases.

I don’t have a background in economics, I get the impression maybe you guys do. I am only telling you what I have observed so far personally.

8

Pushing a large red button that excised all influence from the federal government at least, if not many state governments as well would a one million times more effective stimulus for this economy than anything being proposed by either party.

They will never enact anything that takes them out of the loop which would be the only hope we have.

9

[quote]J Eldred wrote:
There are a number of reasons for the horrible economy in which America finds itself in today, but the number one reason is the lack of jobs.

The reason for lack of jobs again is for a few reasons, but the main reason is outsourcing. I do not blame outsourcing on the business execs or politicians allowing it to happen. The blame needs to be placed on the American people for buying those products that are made in other countries. This in turn chiefly blames the American people for its own economic peril.

I have heard many reasons why people buy the products of other countries and they are completely unfounded, especially the one about foreign products being cheaper. If one was to do a little research, they would find the same products made in the States as foreign countries to resemble each other. Americans just don’t care and now we are paying for it.

If Americans want to turn the economy around, we need to be responsible to our selves and buy the products we make. [/quote]

You should read “free to choose” by milton friedman

10

Surupakk you may find this interesting:

And Zephead’s quite right, Free to Choose is a fantastic introduction to economics

11

[quote]suruppak wrote:

I can also see that lower prices would satisfy consumers, that is a valid point. However, I personally have not seen any product that was once produced in the US, that became noticeably cheaper upon moving to Mexico or China.
[/quote]

Good point, and the quality of those products became noticeably shittier…

12

[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
suruppak wrote:

I can also see that lower prices would satisfy consumers, that is a valid point. However, I personally have not seen any product that was once produced in the US, that became noticeably cheaper upon moving to Mexico or China.

Good point, and the quality of those products became noticeably shittier…
[/quote]
If you can think of a way to make products superior to what is currently offered (cheaper/better quality) you should do it and become rich. That’s how free markets works. If someone can do it better, than they beat the other through competition. If companies thought moving to China/India/Mexico would make them less competitive, they wouldn’t do it.

13

[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
suruppak wrote:

I can also see that lower prices would satisfy consumers, that is a valid point. However, I personally have not seen any product that was once produced in the US, that became noticeably cheaper upon moving to Mexico or China.

Good point, and the quality of those products became noticeably shittier…
[/quote]

They’re cheaper in China.

It’s not China’s fault American’s are still willing to pay the same price as before.

14

It is not lack of jobs. It is the fact the jobs you do are worthless, not producing anything. It is the fact you want to consume things produced elsewhere and not do any work yourself. And it is the fact that having done that for decades, you owe an incredible amount of money and can’t catch up.

Also it is the fact that USA rode on the back of massive natural resources and multiple war profiteering for decades. How much boom came from those wars of yore. Plenty. But americans seem to think all the boom has been due to some kind of superior free market or some crap. it hasn’t. with all the benefits you have enjoyed for so long, you would have to be morons NOT to be booming.

come to a country with abundant natural wealth. enjoy massive population growth. so much opportunity. any idiot governing system would have to succeed. hundreds of years of just everything there handed to you. sit back during two world wars profiteering and then come in when you know who the winner will be. start a couple of wars and lose them but still profit.

and then brilliantly set yourself up to do nothing but consume, borrow money from other countries, consume consume consume and my god, some people suggesting you need more consumer confidence as a solution!

if I sound angry I am, I can’t believe how things have wasted.

for a free market to work people have to profit from doing things more productively, more efficiently.

somehow this economy has become one where people profit from doing things sneakily, irresponsibly, passing the buck and passing the debt, hiding the risk, etc… and so forth.

protectionism is not the solution. MAKING THINGS BETTER - making a product that is genuinely competitive - THAT is the solution.

america can be turned around into a stronger place than it ever has been, but not with stupid ideas and perpetuating the bullshit.

makes me so frikkin mad

15

[quote]shookers wrote:
Every person should conduct business in which they have a competitive advantage[/quote]

They should hire a game theorist to tell them how…oh, wait…

16

[quote]orion wrote:
J Eldred wrote:
There are a number of reasons for the horrible economy in which America finds itself in today, but the number one reason is the lack of jobs.

The reason for lack of jobs again is for a few reasons, but the main reason is outsourcing. I do not blame outsourcing on the business execs or politicians allowing it to happen. The blame needs to be placed on the American people for buying those products that are made in other countries. This in turn chiefly blames the American people for its own economic peril.

I have heard many reasons why people buy the products of other countries and they are completely unfounded, especially the one about foreign products being cheaper. If one was to do a little research, they would find the same products made in the States as foreign countries to resemble each other. Americans just don’t care and now we are paying for it.

If Americans want to turn the economy around, we need to be responsible to our selves and buy the products we make.

Why arbitrarily draw the line at Americas borders?

Why not the US?

Why not your state?

Why not your city, your block, your family, you alone?

If what you are proposing really made sense, everyone should grow his own food, make his own clothes, build his own house and so on., thereby maximizing his wealth.

Since that is clearly a recipe for disaster, what makes you think that any step in that direction could make America better off?[/quote]

America would be better for the fact that more jobs would be created by purchasing American made products. An economy is strong because people have jobs, which is not the situation at this time

17

[quote]shookers wrote:
This is so backwards it’s amazing. Protectionism never has and never will be the solution, only the problem.

You should make goods where they may be made at the lowest cost. Every person should conduct business in which they have a competitive advantage[/quote]

I am not sure how protectionism is the problem? We have no protection at all and we have the worst economy since the 30’s.

Products should be made where it makes sense to make them. It would not make sense to grow bananas in Minnesota, and sometimes it just does not make sense for America to produce certain things. However, that is not competitive adavantage, and referencing my first post, products made in foreign countries are typically not cheaper than those produced domestically.

18

[quote]J Eldred wrote:
orion wrote:
J Eldred wrote:
There are a number of reasons for the horrible economy in which America finds itself in today, but the number one reason is the lack of jobs.

The reason for lack of jobs again is for a few reasons, but the main reason is outsourcing. I do not blame outsourcing on the business execs or politicians allowing it to happen. The blame needs to be placed on the American people for buying those products that are made in other countries. This in turn chiefly blames the American people for its own economic peril.

I have heard many reasons why people buy the products of other countries and they are completely unfounded, especially the one about foreign products being cheaper. If one was to do a little research, they would find the same products made in the States as foreign countries to resemble each other. Americans just don’t care and now we are paying for it.

If Americans want to turn the economy around, we need to be responsible to our selves and buy the products we make.

Why arbitrarily draw the line at Americas borders?

Why not the US?

Why not your state?

Why not your city, your block, your family, you alone?

If what you are proposing really made sense, everyone should grow his own food, make his own clothes, build his own house and so on., thereby maximizing his wealth.

Since that is clearly a recipe for disaster, what makes you think that any step in that direction could make America better off?

America would be better for the fact that more jobs would be created by purchasing American made products. An economy is strong because people have jobs, which is not the situation at this time[/quote]

No, people have jobs because an economy is strong and not the other way around. Your idea will hardly strengthen your economy.

Then, you are a member of the WTO. Not only would you lose any credibility you have left if you start to dabble in protectionism if it suits you, you would also need to start a trade war with the EU and Japan which you cannot win.

19

Smoot-Hawley Tariffs were one of the primary causes of the great depression. Look it up.

Products are made PRECISELY where it makes sense to make them. If businesses thought it made sense to manufacturer in America, they would. If it wasn’t cheaper (or more profitable) to make products in foreign countries, businesses wouldn’t do it.

Besides, barriers to free trade are unnecessary violations of my freedom

20

[quote]suruppak wrote:
Shookers, thanks for the clarification, it looked to me like you were saying that the companies should make goods where the cost was lowest, period.

I’m not sure that most companies move their businesses to Mexico or China, or their tech support to India, in order to best satisfy their customers however.

Anecdotally, I haven’t met anyone that is glad a particular product is made in China or Mexico, or are glad that when their computer breaks their tech support helpdesk is in India.

I can also see that lower prices would satisfy consumers, that is a valid point. However, I personally have not seen any product that was once produced in the US, that became noticeably cheaper upon moving to Mexico or China.

Orion, I definitely see where it wouldn’t make sense in those two cases.

I don’t have a background in economics, I get the impression maybe you guys do. I am only telling you what I have observed so far personally.
[/quote]

So computers are the same price they were a few years back? And it is not just manafacturing moving overseas that drops prices, it can be any business process.

If you can get someone overseas to run your back office more efficiently and cost effectively or internal reporting or whatever then you can pass on those cost savings to your customers (or maintain your profits.)

Cars are hugely cheaper than they used to be. You can’t just look at the price, what you have to compare is what you are getting for your money. Compare even a ‘crappy’ car from today to an ‘expensive’ model from 10 years ago and today’s crappy car has a huge number of safety and luxury features that were not even available on your expensive car 10 years ago.

How are you going to manage to buy only American? Very few products or services have no component or process operated overseas.