Im no economist or nothing but it seems like globalization is bad for the country. Is that the reason why it is driving down wages here in America? Ive been unemployed since September of 2008 and receiving unemployment since March of 2009 and finding work is very difficult. Finding $10 or more per hour seems like trying to strike gold.
And FYI, I dont receive unemployment because I enjoy “living on the dole”. I made double at my last job as I make with unemployment and would go back in an instant. I hate it when people say unemployment should be cut off or no extensions should be given because people on unemployment don’t want to work, thats nonsense. All these jobs they say (people who want to cut unemployment benefits or think they’re really doing us a favor by cutting them) are out there dont exist. Those jobs are imaginary.
Unemployment compensation provides an incentive not to work in some cases. If you are making 9/hr sitting on your butt are you going to take a job at that same amount or lower doing, you know, actual work?
and globalization is great. Intermingled competition among the world creates cheaper, better products. If your job gets outsourced to some chap in India with a PHd who is willing to do it for $4/hr – all the better. Get back to the drawing board and use your creativeness and intelligence to find out what the market needs.
[quote]clip11 wrote:
Finding $10 or more per hour seems like trying to strike gold.
[/quote]
So strike silver and take $7,$8,or $9 an hour…I find it really hard to believe that you havent been able to find ANY TYPE of work for 2 yrs. I’m working my 2nd job of this summer since I quit the first one cause it sucked for so many reasons. Take whatever you can get, that may mean part time. There are some bullshit jobs out there that will pay you money, check craigslist.
seriously 2 years? c’mon man your job right now is to find a job. 9-5 everyday.
[quote]clip11 wrote:
Finding $10 or more per hour seems like trying to strike gold.
[/quote]
So strike silver and take $7,$8,or $9 an hour…I find it really hard to believe that you havent been able to find ANY TYPE of work for 2 yrs. I’m working my 2nd job of this summer since I quit the first one cause it sucked for so many reasons. Take whatever you can get, that may mean part time. There are some bullshit jobs out there that will pay you money, check craigslist.
seriously 2 years? c’mon man your job right now is to find a job. 9-5 everyday. [/quote]
I hate when people I dont know tell me what I need to do or crap like that. I have applied for those jobs and havent been called back. I live in MI and it is extremely hard to find anything.
Stop dropping off applications (or worse, emailing them) and start physically going to the places you want to work for, try to meet the manager/decision maker and sell yourself.
I know Michigan has horrible unemployment, but 2 years without a job???
I’m not sure how a robust middle-class is sustainable in a closed economy, unless we redefine what we consider middle class.
If middle-class means a family of four has two-three cars, a mortgage, phone bills, cable bills, insurance of various kinds, multiple TVs, at least on computer per family memeber, exe… how can one “middle class” working adult expect to make enough to buy all that, if his job is to produce it? Does that make sense? (I worry I’m not being clear).
In other words, if the same population that makes “product a” (assuming product a is an expensive, durable good) also consumes “product a”, they have to produce “product a” with enough of a profit margin to allow to producers to also be consumers. When taken to scale, this means that the profit margine will either need to be really high (i.e. consumers are paying a lot for a mediocre product that should be cheaper, but the price is artificially high to support the workers lifestyle: see the American auto-industry and unions) or they have a low profit margin and make up for it with sales volume. But for expensive durable goods that you only buy once every 3-8 years, that means you need a constantly expanding market: not a closed economy.
[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
Stop dropping off applications (or worse, emailing them) and start physically going to the places you want to work for, try to meet the manager/decision maker and sell yourself.
I know Michigan has horrible unemployment, but 2 years without a job??? [/quote]
Ever heard of the 99ers? I got called for one interview and that was 6 months after I applied for that job so I had forgot all about it. I ended up not going to the interview because something went wrong with my phone and when they called it went straight to my voicemail without my phone ringing or anything or it coming up as a missed call. By the time I heard the voicemail, I had missed the interview. As for going to places physically, when I find most of these jobs, it is said on there page to email a resume or go to an employment agency, DO NOT SHOW UP ON THEIR PROPERTY!!!
On a side note, I think they should start by kicking out all these damn illegal immigrants we have here instead of the feds wanting to sue a state for enforcing a law because it will hurt the feelings of people who should be in Mexico in the first place.
I am not unemployed , but under employed , If you think you will get sympathy fro the circle jerk society you need your head examined . I wish you luck , I am presently changing careers my self. Good luck,
[quote]clip11 wrote:
On a side note, I think they should start by kicking out all these damn illegal immigrants we have here instead of the feds wanting to sue a state for enforcing a law because it will hurt the feelings of people who should be in Mexico in the first place. [/quote]
I think we should kick out all of the sand baggers who want a “good job” that pays well but aren’t willing to work when they get one.
Jealousy is a funny thing. You know the guys who bitch about the boss being a lazy ass only do so when they are asked to do something for their paycheck.
With that in mind, how do you bitch abot a bunch of people who are willing to work way harder than you for so much less?
It has been a mantra for some time now that globalization is good for us because it is opening up all these markets. The reality is the only market that has been opened is the labor market. Our wages and standard of living now has to be adjusted downwards to the global average that our working people are now in competition with.
Competition with the rest of the world to produce cheaper products is not great. Because these cheaper products come at a price. A very high price. When jobs that require a PhD (which are the top earners in the labor market)can be outsourced to India for $4.00/Hr that creates an extreme downward pressure at the top of the labor market and pushes everyone else down as well. How are you going to pay off the amount of college loans needed for a PhD on $4/hr? Let alone support yourself? You can make more than that stocking shelves at Walmart. Under those circumstances what is the point of going to college? Less people going to college because it is pointless is going to have a big effect on the dumbing down of society.
When Henry ford opened his 4th model T factory in Highland Park Michigan in 1909 he paid $5.00 a day which was unprecedented. He did not have to pay that much money but he did because he knew that it would spread through the economy and create customers for his product. That is why Highland Park became the wealthiest city in America and Henry Ford is credited with creating America’s middle class. Think about it, if Henry Ford had built that 4th factory in Mexico, China or India and paid people a penny a day where would America be today?
Globalization only benefits big businesses that have no loyalty to our nation. What we are seeing today in our economy is the realization of what Ross Perot warned us about twenty years ago. All the stimulus programs we have are, is a futile attempt to keep an unsustainable situation going a little longer and it’s not working.
Globalization has been bad for America. It is an uneven playing field against competitors who are not playing fairly. So that as their economies grow we are not reaping benefit from it. We are just losing everything. ie If America was gaining from it’s trade with China we would not need to borrow money from them we would be able to borrow it from ourselves.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
It has been a mantra for some time now that globalization is good for us because it is opening up all these markets. The reality is the only market that has been opened is the labor market. Our wages and standard of living now has to be adjusted downwards to the global average that our working people are now in competition with.
Competition with the rest of the world to produce cheaper products is not great. Because these cheaper products come at a price. A very high price. When jobs that require a PhD (which are the top earners in the labor market)can be outsourced to India for $4.00/Hr that creates an extreme downward pressure at the top of the labor market and pushes everyone else down as well.
How are you going to pay off the amount of college loans needed for a PhD on $4/hr? Let alone support yourself? You can make more than that stocking shelves at Walmart. Under those circumstances what is the point of going to college? Less people going to college because it is pointless is going to have a big effect on the dumbing down of society.
When Henry ford opened his 4th model T factory in Highland Park Michigan in 1909 he paid $5.00 a day which was unprecedented. He did not have to pay that much money but he did because he knew that it would spread through the economy and create customers for his product.
That is why Highland Park became the wealthiest city in America and Henry Ford is credited with creating America’s middle class. Think about it, if Henry Ford had built that 4th factory in Mexico, China or India and paid people a penny a day where would America be today?
Globalization only benefits big businesses that have no loyalty to our nation. What we are seeing today in our economy is the realization of what Ross Perot warned us about twenty years ago. All the stimulus programs we have are, is a futile attempt to keep an unsustainable situation going a little longer and it’s not working.
Globalization has been bad for America. It is an uneven playing field against competitors who are not playing fairly. So that as their economies grow we are not reaping benefit from it. We are just losing everything. ie If America was gaining from it’s trade with China we would not need to borrow money from them we would be able to borrow it from ourselves. [/quote]
Every paragraph of this post is a bald-faced lie.
Paragraph 1: Rather than decrease the standard of living in America, global trade has held down inflation in America by allowing goods to be produced cheaper than they could domestically. Meanwhile, wages set in China and India don’t really affect American workers that much. Most of America works on domestically consumed services (waiters, cashiers, teachers) that can’t be easily outsourced. America has been helped by the opening of new labor markets. So too have the labor markets.
Paragraph 2: Competition is great. Acer makes computers of the same quality as Dell for a third less. As a consumer, that helps me a lot, because the money I make (I don’t have a PhD, and neither do most Americans) goes farther.
Paragraph 3: Henry Ford raised his daily pay-rate for only SOME of his workers, after a vesting period, assuming they met certain work and social criteria (couldn’t drink to excess or cheat on their spouses, etc), as a method of turnover prevention, not social charity.
Paragraph 4: Conflating globalization with economic stimulus? That’s just… why would you even do that, that makes no sense. Also, American consumers have benefited.
Paragraph 5: America doesn’t borrow from China because China has been blessed by the Gods of Mercantilism. America borrows from China because its government spends more than it recieves in tax revenue, and Americans have horrible savings rates, whereas the Chinese have great savings rates.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
It has been a mantra for some time now that globalization is good for us because it is opening up all these markets. The reality is the only market that has been opened is the labor market. Our wages and standard of living now has to be adjusted downwards to the global average that our working people are now in competition with.
Competition with the rest of the world to produce cheaper products is not great. Because these cheaper products come at a price. A very high price. When jobs that require a PhD (which are the top earners in the labor market)can be outsourced to India for $4.00/Hr that creates an extreme downward pressure at the top of the labor market and pushes everyone else down as well.
How are you going to pay off the amount of college loans needed for a PhD on $4/hr? Let alone support yourself? You can make more than that stocking shelves at Walmart. Under those circumstances what is the point of going to college? Less people going to college because it is pointless is going to have a big effect on the dumbing down of society.
When Henry ford opened his 4th model T factory in Highland Park Michigan in 1909 he paid $5.00 a day which was unprecedented. He did not have to pay that much money but he did because he knew that it would spread through the economy and create customers for his product.
That is why Highland Park became the wealthiest city in America and Henry Ford is credited with creating America’s middle class. Think about it, if Henry Ford had built that 4th factory in Mexico, China or India and paid people a penny a day where would America be today?
Globalization only benefits big businesses that have no loyalty to our nation. What we are seeing today in our economy is the realization of what Ross Perot warned us about twenty years ago. All the stimulus programs we have are, is a futile attempt to keep an unsustainable situation going a little longer and it’s not working.
Globalization has been bad for America. It is an uneven playing field against competitors who are not playing fairly. So that as their economies grow we are not reaping benefit from it. We are just losing everything. ie If America was gaining from it’s trade with China we would not need to borrow money from them we would be able to borrow it from ourselves. [/quote]
Every paragraph of this post is a bald-faced lie.
Paragraph 1: Rather than decrease the standard of living in America, global trade has held down inflation in America by allowing goods to be produced cheaper than they could domestically. Meanwhile, wages set in China and India don’t really affect American workers that much. Most of America works on domestically consumed services (waiters, cashiers, teachers) that can’t be easily outsourced. America has been helped by the opening of new labor markets. So too have the labor markets.
Paragraph 2: Competition is great. Acer makes computers of the same quality as Dell for a third less. As a consumer, that helps me a lot, because the money I make (I don’t have a PhD, and neither do most Americans) goes farther.
Paragraph 3: Henry Ford raised his daily pay-rate for only SOME of his workers, after a vesting period, assuming they met certain work and social criteria (couldn’t drink to excess or cheat on their spouses, etc), as a method of turnover prevention, not social charity.
Paragraph 4: Conflating globalization with economic stimulus? That’s just… why would you even do that, that makes no sense. Also, American consumers have benefited.
Paragraph 5: America doesn’t borrow from China because China has been blessed by the Gods of Mercantilism. America borrows from China because its government spends more than it recieves in tax revenue, and Americans have horrible savings rates, whereas the Chinese have great savings rates.[/quote]
America borrows money from China because they drain three hundred billion dollars a year out of our economy.
“Economies such as Canada, Japan, and Germany which have savings surpluses, typically run trade surpluses. China, a high growth economy, has tended to run trade surpluses. A higher savings rate generally corresponds to a trade surplus. Correspondingly, the U.S. with its lower savings rate has tended to run high trade deficits, especially with Asian nations.”
People with good paying manufacturing jobs are able to put money into savings. People who are working poor stocking shelves at Walmart are not going to be saving money. Whatever short term benefits there are for consumers, they need to be weighed against the long term damage that is being done.
China has pegged it’s currency to the dollar. So that as our economy weakens in relation to theirs the competitive advantage that they have over us doesn’t change. They are not doing this for altruistic reasons. A weaker dollar should make it more attractive to manufacture goods in the US creating jobs here. But pegging their currency to the dollar prevents this from happening.
Over the long term we are losing the ability to make things some of which are vital to our national security, while we are empowering a country which is a ruthless dictatorship.
So what? Theoretically, a trade imbalance with make the US dollar worth less in the future than current, while making the Yuen worth more. The fact that they’re pegged to the dollar (they’re not, they just don’t have an open market) suggests that as the dollar falls, it’ll be more and more expensive for them to purchase ore from Brazil and Australia and Fuel from the Saudi’s and Ruskis. Which means it’ll eventually wind down their economy, or force it to adhere closer to market principles. So what’s the damage being done?
Globalization maximizes the productivity of labor and capital markets by allowing their (relative) free movement. If there was a shred of evidence for your national security argument, you might have something. As it is, it’s just vitriol.
[quote]Otep wrote:
So what? Theoretically, a trade imbalance with make the US dollar worth less in the future than current, while making the Yuen worth more. The fact that they’re pegged to the dollar (they’re not, they just don’t have an open market) suggests that as the dollar falls, it’ll be more and more expensive for them to purchase ore from Brazil and Australia and Fuel from the Saudi’s and Ruskis. Which means it’ll eventually wind down their economy, or force it to adhere closer to market principles. So what’s the damage being done?
Globalization maximizes the productivity of labor and capital markets by allowing their (relative) free movement. If there was a shred of evidence for your national security argument, you might have something. As it is, it’s just vitriol.[/quote]
Your statements are only true if the markets being globalized to are also free markets, but they are not.
so it is not the same.
The only way you can open up a free market and the outcome not be disasterous to that marketis to open it to other free markets where goods and services have “real” values that are similar or can be standardized.
By opening to markets that are not free such as ones from more socialist or communist based societies, you lose actual value of goods and services and these become arbitrary values which are neither similar nor can they be properly standardizable. This creates a vastly disproportionate flow of goods and services eventually devaluing the free market and cusing it to crash as we are seeing.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Your statements are only true if the markets being globalized to are also free markets, but they are not.
so it is not the same.
The only way you can open up a free market and the outcome not be disasterous to that marketis to open it to other free markets where goods and services have “real” values that are similar or can be standardized.
By opening to markets that are not free such as ones from more socialist or communist based societies, you lose actual value of goods and services and these become arbitrary values which are neither similar nor can they be properly standardizable. This creates a vastly disproportionate flow of goods and services eventually devaluing the free market and cusing it to crash as we are seeing. [/quote]
Huh?
How does a product made in China lose value the moment it leaves communist soil? If anything, it gains value, eg an iphone that sells for around 120 USD can cross the continent and be sold for twice that amount.
I see the vastly disproportionate flow of goods… commonly referred to as a trade imbalance. You know this happens with non-communist nations too… right? Like between America and Japan? Or between America and Canada. I see it, I really do, but it doesn’t mean everything Sifu or you seem to believe it does.
[quote]clip11 wrote:
Im no economist or nothing but it seems like globalization is bad for the country. Is that the reason why it is driving down wages here in America? Ive been unemployed since September of 2008 and receiving unemployment since March of 2009 and finding work is very difficult. Finding $10 or more per hour seems like trying to strike gold.
And FYI, I dont receive unemployment because I enjoy “living on the dole”. I made double at my last job as I make with unemployment and would go back in an instant. I hate it when people say unemployment should be cut off or no extensions should be given because people on unemployment don’t want to work, thats nonsense. All these jobs they say (people who want to cut unemployment benefits or think they’re really doing us a favor by cutting them) are out there dont exist. Those jobs are imaginary.[/quote]
I am currently an Executive Director of a large multinational company. Within the last 3 years at a time that I was looking for a job I have worked for minimum wage in the UK collecting glasses in a bar as casual work I have also worked teaching English in Mexico. I did these jobs because I wanted to keep money coming in and because my ethic is that I get off my arse and I work to put food on my family’s table.
I am not against unemployment benefit in principal however if you are out of work, get off your arse, look for casual work, bar work, kitchen work anything to get out there. This is how you will find out about other jobs and opportunities.
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
I’m not sure how a robust middle-class is sustainable in a closed economy, unless we redefine what we consider middle class.
If middle-class means a family of four has two-three cars, a mortgage, phone bills, cable bills, insurance of various kinds, multiple TVs, at least on computer per family memeber, exe… how can one “middle class” working adult expect to make enough to buy all that, if his job is to produce it? Does that make sense? (I worry I’m not being clear).
[/quote]
I don’t really understand what you are saying. An auto worker will only own a car or two. Yet they will produce many more cars than that each year.
Likewise in almost every industry. The worker produces far more than they consume. There is a massive markup on most consumables.
[quote]Otep wrote:
So what? Theoretically, a trade imbalance with make the US dollar worth less in the future than current, while making the Yuen worth more. The fact that they’re pegged to the dollar (they’re not, they just don’t have an open market) suggests that as the dollar falls, it’ll be more and more expensive for them to purchase ore from Brazil and Australia and Fuel from the Saudi’s and Ruskis. Which means it’ll eventually wind down their economy, or force it to adhere closer to market principles. So what’s the damage being done?
Globalization maximizes the productivity of labor and capital markets by allowing their (relative) free movement. If there was a shred of evidence for your national security argument, you might have something. As it is, it’s just vitriol.[/quote]
Your statements are only true if the markets being globalized to are also free markets, but they are not.
so it is not the same.
The only way you can open up a free market and the outcome not be disasterous to that marketis to open it to other free markets where goods and services have “real” values that are similar or can be standardized.
By opening to markets that are not free such as ones from more socialist or communist based societies, you lose actual value of goods and services and these become arbitrary values which are neither similar nor can they be properly standardizable. This creates a vastly disproportionate flow of goods and services eventually devaluing the free market and cusing it to crash as we are seeing. [/quote]
So if they sell it to high, you dont buy it and when they sell it too low you get cheap stuff…
There are jobs here in Ontario but almost all of them are from temp agencys. It sucks I know but it can be a foot in the door. I’m not going to sling mud here but I find it puzzling that you can’t find a job through one of these places.
Right now I work for an American company and I’m trying to get my wage increased. I fear the director in America doesen’t value the lowly warehouse worker. It seems their business model is hire a fng every spring when it’s busy and lay him off in the fall when it’s slow. Lather, rinse, repeat…year after year. The managers are the only ones making decent bank. It’s all profit based, no increases, this is new to me.
Fine, it’s a tough world out there but it’s different here in Canada. We don’t have the sheer volume of workers that the US has and they are having a very hard time adjusting to this reality. Not to mention the cost of living here which is higher than in the US.
However, I’m right where I deserve to be. I chose not to further my education past my grade twelve diploma.