[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So anyone who builds a great physique has great genetics. And we can tell they had great genetics for muscle building because they built a lot of muscle. Anyone else seeing the circular reasoning here. I just find it hard to believe that every bodybuilder had spectacular muscle building genetics. As I mentioned before, Freeman has acknowledged that his genetics were horrible and he had an extremely hard time packing on the slightest bit of muscle but went to extreme levels with his diet to do so. And this was to reach the 200 lb mark when he was starting out. That doesn’t seem like great genetics to me. Seems to me like you are dismissing all of those extreme efforts and just chalking his physique up to great genetics, doesn’t it Prof??[/quote]
Also dudes who are big and on steroids are big because of their genetics for muscle building. They just werent patient to naturally find out that they had great genetics for it.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So anyone who builds a great physique has great genetics. And we can tell they had great genetics for muscle building because they built a lot of muscle. Anyone else seeing the circular reasoning here. I just find it hard to believe that every bodybuilder had spectacular muscle building genetics. As I mentioned before, Freeman has acknowledged that his genetics were horrible and he had an extremely hard time packing on the slightest bit of muscle but went to extreme levels with his diet to do so. And this was to reach the 200 lb mark when he was starting out. That doesn’t seem like great genetics to me. Seems to me like you are dismissing all of those extreme efforts and just chalking his physique up to great genetics, doesn’t it Prof??[/quote]
How could one possible build a great physique in the absense of great genetics? If It’s about weight gain its an issue with metabolism, thus an extreme amount of eating. The ones that gain weight and gain mostly fat and not muscle (assuming all other aspects of weight training were done properly) would be the ones with poorer genetics.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So anyone who builds a great physique has great genetics. And we can tell they had great genetics for muscle building because they built a lot of muscle. Anyone else seeing the circular reasoning here. I just find it hard to believe that every bodybuilder had spectacular muscle building genetics. As I mentioned before, Freeman has acknowledged that his genetics were horrible and he had an extremely hard time packing on the slightest bit of muscle but went to extreme levels with his diet to do so. And this was to reach the 200 lb mark when he was starting out. That doesn’t seem like great genetics to me. Seems to me like you are dismissing all of those extreme efforts and just chalking his physique up to great genetics, doesn’t it Prof??[/quote]
How could one possible build a great physique in the absense of great genetics? If It’s about weight gain its an issue with metabolism, thus an extreme amount of eating. The ones that gain weight and gain mostly fat and not muscle (assuming all other aspects of weight training were done properly) would be the ones with poorer genetics.
[/quote]
Hard work. Attention to diet and portions (whether that be big or small). Pharmacological assistance. Its hard work for everyone to reach the extreme level and impossible without gear but for some its a lot harder than others. For the vast majority of people a great physique is not impossible and genetics for the most part are a cop out.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Seems to me like you are dismissing all of those extreme efforts and just chalking his physique up to great genetics, doesn’t it Prof??[/quote]
No, because part of reaching that genetic potential is the effort…which is why you can’t tell before someone has tried at all.
Hard work. Attention to diet and portions (whether that be big or small). Pharmacological assistance. Its hard work for everyone to reach the extreme level and impossible without gear but for some its a lot harder than others. For the vast majority of people a great physique is not impossible and genetics for the most part are a cop out.
[/quote]
Yeah, your problem is relating “a great physique” to “massive amounts of muscle”.
The latter REQUIRES great genetics for building muscle.
I am still contending that listening to all of Toney Freemans struggles, he did not have great genetics for building massive amounts of muscle, yet did so anyway, through perseverance and years of hard work. And some roids.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I am still contending that listening to all of Toney Freemans struggles, he did not have great genetics for building massive amounts of muscle, yet did so anyway, through perseverance and years of hard work. And some roids. [/quote]
I didn’t either…and didn’t gain any weight until I started forcing huge meals down every meal. That doesn’t change anything. You can’t build arms over 19" without good genetics for it.
Freeman was already big before he ever competed. That is why he was a stripper for years before anyone ever heard of him.
Genetics do not mean you don’t try hard. I worked my ass off for years to build the size I have now. That didn’t come by accident or with half assed effort. It came from never being an “off and on” trainer and making it a priority for years.
I think your problem is the assumption that good genetics mean you don’t work at it.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So anyone who builds a great physique has great genetics. And we can tell they had great genetics for muscle building because they built a lot of muscle. Anyone else seeing the circular reasoning here. I just find it hard to believe that every bodybuilder had spectacular muscle building genetics. As I mentioned before, Freeman has acknowledged that his genetics were horrible and he had an extremely hard time packing on the slightest bit of muscle but went to extreme levels with his diet to do so. And this was to reach the 200 lb mark when he was starting out. That doesn’t seem like great genetics to me. Seems to me like you are dismissing all of those extreme efforts and just chalking his physique up to great genetics, doesn’t it Prof??[/quote]
How could one possible build a great physique in the absense of great genetics? If It’s about weight gain its an issue with metabolism, thus an extreme amount of eating. The ones that gain weight and gain mostly fat and not muscle (assuming all other aspects of weight training were done properly) would be the ones with poorer genetics.
[/quote]
Hard work. Attention to diet and portions (whether that be big or small). Pharmacological assistance. Its hard work for everyone to reach the extreme level and impossible without gear but for some its a lot harder than others. For the vast majority of people a great physique is not impossible and genetics for the most part are a cop out.
[/quote]
When you wrote “great physique”, I assumed you were referring to Toney Freeman’s level. If so, I would disagree that the vast majority of people have the genetics, despite using PEDs, to reach that level.
If you are talking about Zzzyz or whatever his name is, I would agree with what you wrote above, even without any anabolics.
When you wrote “great physique”, I assumed you were referring to Toney Freeman’s level. If so, I would disagree that the vast majority of people have the genetics, despite using PEDs, to reach that level.
[/quote]
Agreed.
You can take what Ronnie Coleman takes and you won’t ever look like Ronnie Coleman.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I am still contending that listening to all of Toney Freemans struggles, he did not have great genetics for building massive amounts of muscle, yet did so anyway, through perseverance and years of hard work. And some roids. [/quote]
I didn’t either…and didn’t gain any weight until I started forcing huge meals down every meal. That doesn’t change anything. You can’t build arms over 19" without good genetics for it.
Freeman was already big before he ever competed. That is why he was a stripper for years before anyone ever heard of him.
Genetics do not mean you don’t try hard. I worked my ass off for years to build the size I have now. That didn’t come by accident or with half assed effort. It came from never being an “off and on” trainer and making it a priority for years.
I think your problem is the assumption that good genetics mean you don’t work at it.
That is NOT good genetics.[/quote]
I think there are a more significant number of people out there that could reach that level if they made the investment easier than Freeman did. I am actually sitting here holding an article in an old Flex about Freeman that I have used as inspiration from time to time. Since I believe that far more people than you think could do what Freeman did faster than he did it if they put in the same time and effort, then his genetics are not “great”. Am I wrong about the number of people capable of this physically, maybe. Can you say for sure, not even close.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So anyone who builds a great physique has great genetics. And we can tell they had great genetics for muscle building because they built a lot of muscle. Anyone else seeing the circular reasoning here. I just find it hard to believe that every bodybuilder had spectacular muscle building genetics. As I mentioned before, Freeman has acknowledged that his genetics were horrible and he had an extremely hard time packing on the slightest bit of muscle but went to extreme levels with his diet to do so. And this was to reach the 200 lb mark when he was starting out. That doesn’t seem like great genetics to me. Seems to me like you are dismissing all of those extreme efforts and just chalking his physique up to great genetics, doesn’t it Prof??[/quote]
How could one possible build a great physique in the absense of great genetics? If It’s about weight gain its an issue with metabolism, thus an extreme amount of eating. The ones that gain weight and gain mostly fat and not muscle (assuming all other aspects of weight training were done properly) would be the ones with poorer genetics.
[/quote]
Hard work. Attention to diet and portions (whether that be big or small). Pharmacological assistance. Its hard work for everyone to reach the extreme level and impossible without gear but for some its a lot harder than others. For the vast majority of people a great physique is not impossible and genetics for the most part are a cop out.
[/quote]
When you wrote “great physique”, I assumed you were referring to Toney Freeman’s level. If so, I would disagree that the vast majority of people have the genetics, despite using PEDs, to reach that level.
If you are talking about Zzzyz or whatever his name is, I would agree with what you wrote above, even without any anabolics.
[/quote]
I actually thought you referring to this Z persons physique so I switched gears with you from what I was responding to with X. My apologies. I thought I was having two conversations with two different goal posts.
I think there are a more significant number of people out there that could reach that level if they made the investment easier than Freeman did. [/quote]
That is likely the case but since none of them will put in the effort for years, you nor they will ever know it.
That is one of the reasons you see me rant about people who decide what they can’t do before they ever actually get anywhere.
Very few people get so into this they make it a large priority in their life for decades…so very few people will EVER reach their full potential.
Yes, some people may gain easier than others.
Yes, some people can build muscles way larger than others.
It still means that you need the genetic structure and affinity for muscle gains to get really big.
Steroids do NOT make Olympia competitors out of guys who lift weights for 3 years and still have 14" arms or smaller.
What stuck out to me about that quote is that, IIRC, prof X has claimed in the past to have average genetics (or some similar phrasing of that.)
By that logic*, prof X does not have really big muscles.
*Prof X, this word is listed in the dictionary. Look it up some time. [/quote]
I have never said I had average genetics. In fact, you have seen me write that I think anyone who can build natural arms over 18" relatively lean has good genetics for bodybuilding.
When you wrote “great physique”, I assumed you were referring to Toney Freeman’s level. If so, I would disagree that the vast majority of people have the genetics, despite using PEDs, to reach that level.
[/quote]
Agreed.
You can take what Ronnie Coleman takes and you won’t ever look like Ronnie Coleman.[/quote]
I didn’t think you were talking about Ronnie Coleman’s level. If that’s the case, X you don’t have really big muscles.
Disclaimer: I was thinking you had big muscles. But, you sir are not anywhere near those levels you are now describing as “massive muscles”.
I will agree to be Olympia level in muscle size it takes great genetics. But, a person can have “really big muscles” in my opinion and not be at that level.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
The harder and longer I trained, the better my genetics for muscle building got.
S
[/quote]
This is a good direction. Let me expand on this. It’s the human body, I can’t believe I am having this debate with a fucking doctor, unless you are fucked up and your body has serious issues, if you train hard enough, for long enough, with steroids, you will get big enough that almost anyone you asked anywhere in the world would say you have big muscles
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
The harder and longer I trained, the better my genetics for muscle building got.
S
[/quote]
This is a good direction. Let me expand on this. It’s the human body, I can’t believe I am having this debate with a fucking doctor, unless you are fucked up and your body has serious issues, if you train hard enough, for long enough, with steroids, you will get big enough that almost anyone you asked anywhere in the world would say you have big muscles[/quote]
Everyone doesn’t respond to steroids the same…so no, not everyone is going to get really big muscles from steroid use.
I have written this already. No one who can’t build 14" arms naturally is going to become an IFBB pro just because they took steroids. That is all about genetics. No one cares if you think I’m not big.
What stuck out to me about that quote is that, IIRC, prof X has claimed in the past to have average genetics (or some similar phrasing of that.)
By that logic*, prof X does not have really big muscles.
*Prof X, this word is listed in the dictionary. Look it up some time. [/quote]
I have never said I had average genetics. In fact, you have seen me write that I think anyone who can build natural arms over 18" relatively lean has good genetics for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
So now you’re telling me what I see and don’t see?
I skip over a lot of the stuff you write, mainly because it’s grade A bullshit, so chances are I have not seen you write that.
EDIT: Also, just because you have said something in the past doesn’t mean you can’t say something different at a later date. As a matter of fact, you do this quite often.