The Fitness New Age

Off Topic
221

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I don’t find CT Fletcher to be incoherent, rambling, inarticulate, and THOROUGHLY IRRITATING.

I do not find Kali Muscle to be incoherent, rambling, inarticulate, and THOROUGHLY IRRITATING.

[/quote]

I am still truly amazed that you are befuddled by mistreatment, disrespect, and inappropriate behavior so surprising. I am not saying they are OK, but these things go on every… single… day… in real life AND on the 'net. You are in your mid 30’s. Why are you surprised? [/quote]

Befuddled?

You stated this:

[quote]
The insults and call outs might result from some of these You Tube personalities providing nothing useful, [/quote]

So I ask…which one of them is providing “nothing useful”?

You said:

You seem to give these random accusations and opinions way m,ore credit than I do.

Having an opinion is one thing.

Acting like all of the insults and call outs are “accurate judgment” would seem to imply you agree with the act.

Just asking for an explanation for the statements you made first in this thread.

222

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I mean, do we really want to go back to the days when we thought that Hulk Hogan got to be 270lbs lean by “saying his prayers and eating his vitamins”?

BROTHER!![/quote]

Question…in which era do you think serious newbs were challenged to see what they could do on their own first the most?

I was a kid back then. I never even worried about if he was “natural”. Hell, that word didn’t even hold any significance for me. I thought of issues like that as things done by those who are already firing on all 4 cylinders…not something that literally “magically” created them…like the poster here stated.

The word “natural” doesn’t even hold much significance today outside of very specific definitions for certain competitions.

223

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
And I think the people saying they have no dedication are either pro natural BBing, which is their opinion, not one I share or they think the fact they claim natty and CT and Kali call anyone saying CT or Kali is on roids of being “poot? butt motherfuckers” so really those comments are responses to personal attacks by CT and Kali. [/quote]

What is the definition of a “poot butt mutherfucker” and how do you know you are not one?

I am not sure this qualifies as a personal attack because I first need to know what it is.

224

[quote]Species wrote:
It’s illogical to believe that the “average gym rat” (presumably unenhanced) would look to an enhanced BB for “inspiration”.

[/quote]

Then nearly every lifter who grew up in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s was “illogical”.

Trust me, the interest with steroids was not as prevalent. People just didn’t care that much about it.

It is simply a hot topic for you now.

225

[quote]Species wrote:
The other is that the public (not people that frequent sites like this that tend to be more open-minded and maybe even informed on the subject) are resoundingly against the drugs. Baseball makes that perfectly clear.

[/quote]

The only thing baseball has shown is that the media controls mass consciousness and what people believe to be true.

To be “against” something that can change quality of life on a grand scale for men is insanity itself.

226

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Countingbeans: I have not seen you on here in years and I apologize for our riffs in the past. [/quote]

Homie, no worries at all. It is the internet, we’re both old farts now. I’m sorry for the aggravation I caused you as well.

You look great BTW, very, very solid work.

All is good. [/quote]

Thank you. I’ve matured greatly in the past few years.

227

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Species wrote:
It’s illogical to believe that the “average gym rat” (presumably unenhanced) would look to an enhanced BB for “inspiration”.

[/quote]

Then nearly every lifter who grew up in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s was “illogical”.

Trust me, the interest with steroids was not as prevalent. People just didn’t care that much about it.

It is simply a hot topic for you now.[/quote]

Sorry, it’s not a “hot topic” for me, you’re the one that made the thread. I rebutted some of your arguments.

Also, your statement about “every lifter” is fallacious, and unverifiable. I’m willing to wager that once there was enhanced and unenhanced lifters, the division began. And, there was a time where AAS was more a secret, and there were really young lifters that thought that physique was attainable - it’s why they’d purchase crap supplements and routines from the backs of magazines - they were simply less informed. The average lifter now is better informed. AAS is in the public conscious.

I agree people didn’t care that much about it “then” b/c BB has never been a major “sport” for the public. Now that it has infiltrated it’s beloved baseball (and to some lesser extent the track and field scandals) the public does now care (but not so much about BB - BB gets very little attention).

228

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Species wrote:
The other is that the public (not people that frequent sites like this that tend to be more open-minded and maybe even informed on the subject) are resoundingly against the drugs. Baseball makes that perfectly clear.

[/quote]

The only thing baseball has shown is that the media controls mass consciousness and what people believe to be true.

To be “against” something that can change quality of life on a grand scale for men is insanity itself. [/quote]

People are against cheating. If you take something that gives you an advantage, and that something is against the rules, it’s cheating. The public doesn’t like that. That’s a human reaction, not a media created reaction.

Your statement about “quality of life on a grand scale” is not borne out yet by the science. Benefits are relative to risks, and even TRT has it’s relative risks and side effects. And since no one has been on TRT long enough to quantify long term health issues (like we see with estrogen/the pill for women), we simply don’t know that either.

229

[quote]Species wrote:
It’s illogical to believe that the “average gym rat” (presumably unenhanced) would look to an enhanced BB for “inspiration”. The enhanced BB’s physique is unattainable to the unenhanced and that’s a fact. It’s like claiming a flat chested woman should look to some bolt-on, breast implanted porn star for “inspiration” regarding her small boobs. It’s a non-sequitur.

[/quote]

I’ve thought about making that analogy myself and it’s an unfair one. The porn star example is more aptly paired with the guy who chooses pec implants over working out. There is more to inspiration than trying to attain the unattainable. It’s just as much of a non-sequitur for me to eat my way to a heart bypass in order to look like CT Fletcher or to hold someone with a completely opposite physical type to my own as an ideal. Natty or not, I’m never going to achieve that look.

All you can do is make the best of what you’ve got - but that doesn’t mean you can’t find inspiration in the unattainable: an artist can be inspired by nature but that doesn’t mean he wants to be a tree.

230

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Species wrote:
It’s illogical to believe that the “average gym rat” (presumably unenhanced) would look to an enhanced BB for “inspiration”.

[/quote]

Then nearly every lifter who grew up in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s was “illogical”.

Trust me, the interest with steroids was not as prevalent. People just didn’t care that much about it.

It is simply a hot topic for you now.[/quote]

In the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s though people who weren’t associated with BB or professional sports had little to no understanding of how much drug use was involved.

Now, after Conseco ratted out all the steroid use in baseball and the Armstrong deal people understand that drugs are being and have been used by a lot of professional athletes and all pro BB’s. So, then you have people that are clearly juiced and have used juice claiming to be “natural” and giving messages (possibly good messages) and it ruins the message for some people. Then the haters…hate on them.

When you have a person that in one sentence tells you a complete lie then turns around and tells you something else that might be true it dilutes the truth for some people. They just don’t want to hear shit from someone who lies to them.

A couple of thoughts here.

  1. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it was uncovered that one of these guys like the muscle named dude came out and said they claimed to be natural to stir up the pot and get some publicity. All other people in BB (their target audience) competitors and recreational know he takes PED’s. So he says it to get hits on his videos viewers to help get his name out there.
    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY…as “they” say.

  2. I don’t think he claims to be natural because he is an ex con. The fed’s and law enforcement know that there are illegal drugs coming into the prisons and that people are taking them inside their walls. They also know that he is on the sauce by looking at the dude. It just wouldn’t be smart to say he is on this and that, but he doesn’t have to come out and say he is clean.

  3. A fitness professional who I might like or route for who is obviously taking steroids comes out and claims to be natural or uses fake weights in pictures just made me lose some respect for them. I don’t care if they use or not. I think PED’s have their place. I don’t need to see a picture of a person showing 405#s when it’s actually 135#s because of fake plates. Just like if a person is using 135#s in a picture to demonstrate an exercise it doesn’t bother me.

231

[quote]Species wrote:

I agree people didn’t care that much about it “then” b/c BB has never been a major “sport” for the public. Now that it has infiltrated it’s beloved baseball (and to some lesser extent the track and field scandals) the public does now care (but not so much about BB - BB gets very little attention).
[/quote]

The simple point is no one following baseball alone for all of their knowledge about steroids is going to have the slightest clue about steroids as far as any real facts.

The media uses baseball to form public opinion about steroids in general…which is wrong and misinformed.

232

[quote]Species wrote:

People are against cheating. If you take something that gives you an advantage, and that something is against the rules, it’s cheating. The public doesn’t like that. That’s a human reaction, not a media created reaction. [/quote]

How are the Hodge twins, CT fletcher or Kali Muscle cheating?

That is a mass media buzz word and nothing more at this point.

233

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Species wrote:
It’s illogical to believe that the “average gym rat” (presumably unenhanced) would look to an enhanced BB for “inspiration”. The enhanced BB’s physique is unattainable to the unenhanced and that’s a fact. It’s like claiming a flat chested woman should look to some bolt-on, breast implanted porn star for “inspiration” regarding her small boobs. It’s a non-sequitur.

[/quote]

I’ve thought about making that analogy myself and it’s an unfair one. The porn star example is more aptly paired with the guy who chooses pec implants over working out. There is more to inspiration than trying to attain the unattainable. It’s just as much of a non-sequitur for me to eat my way to a heart bypass in order to look like CT Fletcher or to hold someone with a completely opposite physical type to my own as an ideal. Natty or not, I’m never going to achieve that look.

All you can do is make the best of what you’ve got - but that doesn’t mean you can’t find inspiration in the unattainable: an artist can be inspired by nature but that doesn’t mean he wants to be a tree.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. When we’re truly inspired to emulate, we usually reasonably believe we can do that too. Man may be “inspired” by nature, but he certainly does not set out to emulate and achieve what nature achieved - only perhaps the human expression of that. It matters not that the analogy is imperfect, but I don’t think it’s a non-sequitur.

I do like your comments about “natty or not” and “making the best of what you got” b/c I think it raises a salient point:

Sport is self-selecting. Sport, even casually, tends to weed lots of people out (there goes the argument against the people that just don’t “work hard” or have shitty genetics, or any of these other paper thin rebuttals to the this silly debate). Accordingly, we have plenty of empirical evidence of what is attainable by those that are verified natural (in both BB AND strength sports) and those that are not, and the two are not even close. In fact, in BB alone, what is attainable now with HGH and insulin and such is much higher than that which was attainable with the best AAS cycles of the past eras. And as I stated earlier, we have not evolved in a few decades.

The very best of our naturals cannot attain those physiques. So there can be no serious debate about what being enhanced does and what’s realistically attainable by even the best.

Anyway, not to get too far off track, the answer to this thread is that people don’t like frauds generally. We know they’re not natural.

Now, if you want to make an argument that society has forced them in a position to be fraudulent, then that’s a good discussion. But frankly I don’t think the stigma in BB is anywhere near strong enough or even existent to lie about being natural.

234

[quote]mbdix wrote:
They also know that he is on the sauce by looking at the dude. It just wouldn’t be smart to say he is on this and that, but he doesn’t have to come out and say he is clean.
[/quote]

This is a slippery slope…because according to those same people ANYONE with ANY amount of size on them is also “on the sauce by looking at the dude”…which is why this act affects serious weight lifters as a whole as well.

235

[quote]Species wrote:
It’s illogical to believe that the “average gym rat” (presumably unenhanced) would look to an enhanced BB for “inspiration”.

[/quote]

I manage. I suppose I am not the average gym rat, but I dig the effort and dedication regardless of steroids.

236

1315×987 109 KB

I was always told to set long term goals that are extreme…because even if you do fall short, you will still be far beyond most.

That is why someone “unenhanced” may look to someone who has used steroids.

Because this isn’t about trying to BE someone else.

It is about finding the things that motivate you to push yourself to be more and more.

The only reason someone would avoid ever using someone enhanced as a source of inspiration is if they have some sort of bias already in place.

Otherwise they would know that inspiration is never about becoming someone else.

237

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Species wrote:

I agree people didn’t care that much about it “then” b/c BB has never been a major “sport” for the public. Now that it has infiltrated it’s beloved baseball (and to some lesser extent the track and field scandals) the public does now care (but not so much about BB - BB gets very little attention).
[/quote]

The simple point is no one following baseball alone for all of their knowledge about steroids is going to have the slightest clue about steroids as far as any real facts.

The media uses baseball to form public opinion about steroids in general…which is wrong and misinformed.[/quote]

Maybe I might need some crayons to help me understand, but I don’t get it.

The way I see it is what happened with baseball opened the general population’s understanding of steroids. People like us knew that there were many different types of steroids and how you use them can alter their affects. So the baseball scandal happens and people that thought if you took steroids you would look like a bodybuilder, now can see with their own eyes that you can be taking steroids and still look like Rafael Palmeiro. You probably agree that the baseball scandal at least showed the general population that taking steroids will not make you look like a pro bodybuilder

238

Great, original thread. Somebody used his timeout wisely.

Anyway, this thread made me look at one of CT’s videos. Must be one of the most obnoxious fuckers I have ever seen. Cannot imagine having to listen to his crap during a serious workout.

239

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Species wrote:

I agree people didn’t care that much about it “then” b/c BB has never been a major “sport” for the public. Now that it has infiltrated it’s beloved baseball (and to some lesser extent the track and field scandals) the public does now care (but not so much about BB - BB gets very little attention).
[/quote]

The simple point is no one following baseball alone for all of their knowledge about steroids is going to have the slightest clue about steroids as far as any real facts.

The media uses baseball to form public opinion about steroids in general…which is wrong and misinformed.[/quote]

The public formed an opinion that some players had an unfair advantage, that’s the only “real fact” they need to know. They were correct. They were neither wrong, nor misinformed. As to AAS as a whole, they certainly are not experts, but as to the unfair advantage any idiot can get that right and that’s what they care about.

240

[quote]mbdix wrote:

The way I see it is what happened with baseball opened the general population’s understanding of steroids.[/quote]

I disagree. The general public has no understanding of steroids at all. They simply hagve been told they are “bad” and “cheating” so they parrot it.

I seriously doubt the average person waddling through Walmart can show me any understanding of steroids even if they watch baseball every day of their lives.

All they know now is that they have been used by some athletes…that is all.

[quote]
People like us knew that there were many different types of steroids and how you use them can alter their affects. So the baseball scandal happens and people that thought if you took steroids you would look like a bodybuilder, now can see with their own eyes that you can be taking steroids and still look like Rafael Palmeiro. You probably agree that the baseball scandal at least showed the general population that taking steroids will not make you look like a pro bodybuilder[/quote]

We just had a poster claim that steroids are MAGIC and transform 120lbs skinny dudes into 200lbs behemoths with little to no significant extra training.

It would seem people aren’t falling in line the way you just wrote.