The End Of Man

Off Topic
41

This debate about masculinity is purely social. I believe that in American Samoa the traditional male clothing looks like a skirt; try saying those guys look gay. As someone was saying, jamz [and oh yeah, I had some too] were the thing for guys, and there wasn’t anything gay about it. It all depends on the cultural setting. Like someone else said, if a guy feels comfortable in typically women’s clothes, more power to him. It doesn’t affect me a bit.

What does affect me is that I don’t really give a shit about clothing styles and am routinely seen by others as weird because of this. I know plenty of guys I work with, all perfectly hetero [both in sexuality and general attitude] who will talk about shopping for clothes and men’s fashion ad nauseum. It’s become the norm around here for men to keep up with fashion and, more importantly I think, to care about fashion and shopping, and now I’ve become abnormal because I don’t go shopping for the sake of going shopping.

Again, people can wear what they want. But when guys put so much energy into fashion and shopping, i.e., being the right kind of consumer, that worries me a lot.

42

[quote]Captain Glanton wrote:

What does affect me is that I don’t really give a shit about clothing styles and am routinely seen by others as weird because of this. I know plenty of guys I work with, all perfectly hetero [both in sexuality and general attitude] who will talk about shopping for clothes and men’s fashion ad nauseum. It’s become the norm around here for men to keep up with fashion and, more importantly I think, to care about fashion and shopping, and now I’ve become abnormal because I don’t go shopping for the sake of going shopping.

Again, people can wear what they want. But when guys put so much energy into fashion and shopping, i.e., being the right kind of consumer, that worries me a lot.[/quote]

Precisely. It is becoming the norm for men to act like women. We’re headed the wrong way as a society. Too many soy boys and shopping queens.

Whatever happened to the idea that a man should have an ill-fitting suit for during the week and a pair of Dickies for weekend wear?

DB

43

[quote]Miserere wrote:
SWR-1240 wrote:
Jeez. Next they’re going to try and make us think it’s okay for men to walk around with a purse!

Oh wait, they already are!!!

It’s a man-bag, SWR.[/quote]

it’s not a purse, it’s European.

44

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Captain Glanton wrote:

What does affect me is that I don’t really give a shit about clothing styles and am routinely seen by others as weird because of this. I know plenty of guys I work with, all perfectly hetero [both in sexuality and general attitude] who will talk about shopping for clothes and men’s fashion ad nauseum. It’s become the norm around here for men to keep up with fashion and, more importantly I think, to care about fashion and shopping, and now I’ve become abnormal because I don’t go shopping for the sake of going shopping.

Again, people can wear what they want. But when guys put so much energy into fashion and shopping, i.e., being the right kind of consumer, that worries me a lot.

Precisely. It is becoming the norm for men to act like women. We’re headed the wrong way as a society. Too many soy boys and shopping queens.

Whatever happened to the idea that a man should have an ill-fitting suit for during the week and a pair of Dickies for weekend wear?

DB[/quote]

There have always been pretty boys. Now we call them Metrosexual. It’s nothing new.

Why is a guy who intentionally tries NOT to make himself look good any different than a guy who tries. It a fashion statement for both and both are trying hard to say something. Some guys try to look tough, some try to look handsome. There is no such thing as an “I don’t care attitude”. Of course you do. You wear Dickies and ill-fitting suits to make a statement about your ruggedness and working-man mentality.

Now, pink shirts or dresses…just plain wrong for guys. I saw a skinny grunge-dude at Starbucks the other day WEARING A DRESS. I don’t think he was gay, just making a dumb statement. It was an olive green “military” style dress with boots. Just a college kid trying to find himself.

45

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Why is a guy who intentionally tries NOT to make himself look good any different than a guy who tries. It a fashion statement for both and both are trying hard to say something. Some guys try to look tough, some try to look handsome. There is no such thing as an “I don’t care attitude”. Of course you do. You wear Dickies and ill-fitting suits to make a statement about your ruggedness and working-man mentality.
[/quote]

You are right. There sure is a lot of “look at how manly I am” attitude around here.

Why does anyone care how “gay” some other guy is dressed. I’ve been looking at it in this light, more cooter for me. It’s the same philosophy I’m adopting with all the fat people. Heck, with the generation of fat kids coming along when I’m in my 30’s-40’s I’m going to have a lot of young tail to chase unchallenged.

46

[quote]PGJ wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Back in the 80’s we wore “clam diggers”. In Corpus Christi, Texas we weren’t allowed to wear shorts to school so we wore these pants that were basically baggy bermuda shorts (the more colorful the better) that went down just past the knees almost mid calf. Basically it was a realy long bathing suit. Definately NOT capris, just long shorts or really short high-water pants.

Anything that goes below the knee are NOT shorts. Any non-short that does not reach the ankle are either awkwardly high-waters or are women’s clothes.

Real men wear pants (to at least the ankle), shorts (above the knee), or diapers. If you can’t handle this fact, turn in your wedding tackle and prepare to bleed one week out of every month and get used to having tender breasts.

DB

[edit] I guess you could throw knickers in there, but you have to have a ponytail or powdered wig to pull off that look.

I’m just stating what we wore back in the mid 80’s. EVERYONE wore jams, well almost. There was no masculinity issue involved. And when it’s 110 degrees and you aren’t allowed to wear “shorts” to school, jams were a very comfortable option. Of course, I do not wear them any more. I also don’t flip my collar up any more.

[/quote]

Guess I must have missed the 80’s because I never saw one guy wear those stupid ass things. Only retards wore “flood pants”.

47

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Now, pink shirts or dresses…just plain wrong for guys.
[/quote]

I wear a pink polo shirt to work, on occasion. I don’t think it detracts from my uber-manliness.

48

[quote]pbody03 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Back in the 80’s we wore “clam diggers”. In Corpus Christi, Texas we weren’t allowed to wear shorts to school so we wore these pants that were basically baggy bermuda shorts (the more colorful the better) that went down just past the knees almost mid calf. Basically it was a realy long bathing suit. Definately NOT capris, just long shorts or really short high-water pants.

Anything that goes below the knee are NOT shorts. Any non-short that does not reach the ankle are either awkwardly high-waters or are women’s clothes.

Real men wear pants (to at least the ankle), shorts (above the knee), or diapers. If you can’t handle this fact, turn in your wedding tackle and prepare to bleed one week out of every month and get used to having tender breasts.

DB

[edit] I guess you could throw knickers in there, but you have to have a ponytail or powdered wig to pull off that look.

I’m just stating what we wore back in the mid 80’s. EVERYONE wore jams, well almost. There was no masculinity issue involved. And when it’s 110 degrees and you aren’t allowed to wear “shorts” to school, jams were a very comfortable option. Of course, I do not wear them any more. I also don’t flip my collar up any more.

Guess I must have missed the 80’s because I never saw one guy wear those stupid ass things. Only retards wore “flood pants”.[/quote]

I assume you were still in Canada back then. You guys don’t exactly have a great beach culture. Those of you who grew up near a beach in the 80’s I’d bet money you had at least one pair of jams. I went to High School in England from 83-86, then transferred my senior year to a school in Corpus Christi, TX (my dad was military). Jams were unheard of in England, but everybody was wearing them in Texas when I got there.

49

[quote]nephorm wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Now, pink shirts or dresses…just plain wrong for guys.

I wear a pink polo shirt to work, on occasion. I don’t think it detracts from my uber-manliness.[/quote]

I personally draw the line at pink shirts. To me, that is a personal statement, not just a random selection of a shirt from your closet. When you wear a pink shirt you know you will be judged. I think it’s an attempt to get attention. Besides, it just doesn’t look good on guys. I’ve seen kids around here wearing pink t-shirts that say “real men wear pink”. Sad. It’s kind of like the London punks with the spikey hair and crazy outfits. All trying to be unique and individual, but all looking the same.

50

[quote]PGJ wrote:
There is no such thing as an “I don’t care attitude”. [/quote]

Oh yeah there is. Travel outside of any metropolitan area, and this is pretty much the norm. Guys aren’t dressing to look stylish or rugged; they just throw something functional on that’ll get them through the day, which is oftentimes rugged-looking by default.

Question for you guys: do you shop for your own clothes, or does your wife or girlfriend shop for you?

I’m guilty of picking out more metro-looking (stylish) duds for my husband than he’d ever choose on his own.

51

[quote]SBB wrote:
PGJ wrote:
There is no such thing as an “I don’t care attitude”.

Oh yeah there is. Travel outside of any metropolitan area, and this is pretty much the norm. Guys aren’t dressing to look stylish or rugged; they just throw something functional on that’ll get them through the day, which is oftentimes rugged-looking by default.

Question for you guys: do you shop for your own clothes, or does your wife or girlfriend shop for you?

I’m guilty of picking out more metro-looking (stylish) duds for my husband than he’d ever choose on his own. [/quote]

Ideally, we find a baby-sitter for the kids and the two of us go shopping for my clothes. She definitely brings home far more “metro” clothes for me when she shops for me. I certainly have some clothes that were worn only once and now just take up space in my closet.

When I’m with her, I will try stuff on for her. Sometimes she’ll say “oh that looks really good on you.” And I’ll say, “how does it look on the hanger, because I’ll get beat up if I wear this out in public.”

DB

52

[quote]PGJ wrote:
pbody03 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Back in the 80’s we wore “clam diggers”. In Corpus Christi, Texas we weren’t allowed to wear shorts to school so we wore these pants that were basically baggy bermuda shorts (the more colorful the better) that went down just past the knees almost mid calf. Basically it was a realy long bathing suit. Definately NOT capris, just long shorts or really short high-water pants.

Anything that goes below the knee are NOT shorts. Any non-short that does not reach the ankle are either awkwardly high-waters or are women’s clothes.

Real men wear pants (to at least the ankle), shorts (above the knee), or diapers. If you can’t handle this fact, turn in your wedding tackle and prepare to bleed one week out of every month and get used to having tender breasts.

DB

[edit] I guess you could throw knickers in there, but you have to have a ponytail or powdered wig to pull off that look.

I’m just stating what we wore back in the mid 80’s. EVERYONE wore jams, well almost. There was no masculinity issue involved. And when it’s 110 degrees and you aren’t allowed to wear “shorts” to school, jams were a very comfortable option. Of course, I do not wear them any more. I also don’t flip my collar up any more.

Guess I must have missed the 80’s because I never saw one guy wear those stupid ass things. Only retards wore “flood pants”.

I assume you were still in Canada back then. You guys don’t exactly have a great beach culture. Those of you who grew up near a beach in the 80’s I’d bet money you had at least one pair of jams. I went to High School in England from 83-86, then transferred my senior year to a school in Corpus Christi, TX (my dad was military). Jams were unheard of in England, but everybody was wearing them in Texas when I got there.

[/quote]

Well the ice does melt in the summer, and I remember those pant’s, only girls wore them. I lived only about 3 mins from the beach and went there all the time.

53

[quote]SBB wrote:
PGJ wrote:
There is no such thing as an “I don’t care attitude”.

Oh yeah there is. Travel outside of any metropolitan area, and this is pretty much the norm. Guys aren’t dressing to look stylish or rugged; they just throw something functional on that’ll get them through the day, which is oftentimes rugged-looking by default.

Question for you guys: do you shop for your own clothes, or does your wife or girlfriend shop for you?

I’m guilty of picking out more metro-looking (stylish) duds for my husband than he’d ever choose on his own. [/quote]

I disagree. I think those guys who claim to not care are still trying to look a certain way. Or at least NOT look a certain way, which in itself, is a conscious effort to look a certain way.

54

[quote]pbody03 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
pbody03 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Back in the 80’s we wore “clam diggers”. In Corpus Christi, Texas we weren’t allowed to wear shorts to school so we wore these pants that were basically baggy bermuda shorts (the more colorful the better) that went down just past the knees almost mid calf. Basically it was a realy long bathing suit. Definately NOT capris, just long shorts or really short high-water pants.

Anything that goes below the knee are NOT shorts. Any non-short that does not reach the ankle are either awkwardly high-waters or are women’s clothes.

Real men wear pants (to at least the ankle), shorts (above the knee), or diapers. If you can’t handle this fact, turn in your wedding tackle and prepare to bleed one week out of every month and get used to having tender breasts.

DB

[edit] I guess you could throw knickers in there, but you have to have a ponytail or powdered wig to pull off that look.

I’m just stating what we wore back in the mid 80’s. EVERYONE wore jams, well almost. There was no masculinity issue involved. And when it’s 110 degrees and you aren’t allowed to wear “shorts” to school, jams were a very comfortable option. Of course, I do not wear them any more. I also don’t flip my collar up any more.

Guess I must have missed the 80’s because I never saw one guy wear those stupid ass things. Only retards wore “flood pants”.

I assume you were still in Canada back then. You guys don’t exactly have a great beach culture. Those of you who grew up near a beach in the 80’s I’d bet money you had at least one pair of jams. I went to High School in England from 83-86, then transferred my senior year to a school in Corpus Christi, TX (my dad was military). Jams were unheard of in England, but everybody was wearing them in Texas when I got there.

Well the ice does melt in the summer, and I remember those pant’s, only girls wore them. I lived only about 3 mins from the beach and went there all the time. [/quote]

We used to get laughed at by the Britts when we went to their beaches. Americans always wore longer style shorts. Europeans always wore ball-huggers. Unless he’s a competitive swimmer, you are highly unlikely to catch an American in public wearing a banana hammock. They thought WE looked stupid in our baggy pants (we weren’t even wearing jams yet).

So let me clarify my previous statement: if you were and American, living near the beach in the 80’s, you wore jams.

55

[quote]PGJ wrote:
nephorm wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Now, pink shirts or dresses…just plain wrong for guys.

I wear a pink polo shirt to work, on occasion. I don’t think it detracts from my uber-manliness.

I personally draw the line at pink shirts. To me, that is a personal statement, not just a random selection of a shirt from your closet. When you wear a pink shirt you know you will be judged. I think it’s an attempt to get attention. Besides, it just doesn’t look good on guys. I’ve seen kids around here wearing pink t-shirts that say “real men wear pink”. Sad. It’s kind of like the London punks with the spikey hair and crazy outfits. All trying to be unique and individual, but all looking the same.

[/quote]

There’s nothing intrinsically feminine about pink - if you talk to art historians they’ll tell you that pink used to be a common color for boys to be wearing in portaits (or so I’ve read, art history wasn’t my thing).

As to whether it’s acceptable for boys/men now, it really depends on geographic location and (to be frank) social/economic class. I grew up surrounded by men who were comfortable wearing pink (not my father, but only because he had a very florid complexion and it did not work on him). So, in that group, it wasn’t any statement - or at least about gender identification; it may have been a class marker. Now if I run into a man who deliberately avoids pink I actually find him a little less manly because that says to me that he’s not secure enough about his masculinity that he’s worried what others might think.

As for not looking good on guys - that just depends on one’s coloring. I know one man with dark italian coloring and it looks just amazing on him. It can be hard for some redheads to pull off, but that’s true for women, too.

It’s just a color. It only means something because you choose to think it does.

Martha

56

[quote]marza wrote:
It’s just a color. It only means something because you choose to think it does.

Martha

[/quote]

Exactly.

57

[quote]marza wrote:
There’s nothing intrinsically feminine about pink - if you talk to art historians they’ll tell you that pink used to be a common color for boys to be wearing in portaits (or so I’ve read, art history wasn’t my thing).
[/quote]

Bullshit.

Pink in culture:

[quote]Nature of Pink: While red stirs up passion and action, studies have shown that large amounts of pink can create physical weakness in people. Perhaps there is a tie-in between this physical reaction and the color’s association with the so-called weaker sex.
Culture of Pink: In some cultures, such as the US, pink is the color of little girls. It represents sugar and spice and everything nice. Pink for men goes in and out of style. Most people still think of pink as a feminine, delicate color.
Using Pink: Both red and pink denote love but while red is hot passion, pink is romantic and charming. Use pink to convey playfulness (hot pink flamingoes) and tenderness (pastel pinks). Multiple shades of pink and light purple or other pastels used together maintain the soft, delicate, and playful nature of pink. Add strength with darker shades of pinks and purple and burgundy.
[/quote]

Historical meaning of the color or representation:

The Symbolic meaning:

[quote]Is associated with female essence of life. It is viewed as red rendered mild and gentle and therefore associated with tenderness, calmness, pleasantness, and sweet. According to Akan social though, these attributes are generally considered as essential aspects of the female essence.
[/quote]

Bottom line, while we can pretend that colors don’t mean anything…they do and always have. Studies have been done that show certain colors evoke certain emotional responses. This is why restaurants will often paint their walls according to the emotional response given off by certain colors. Decorators are well aware of this as well. Along with that is the huge cultural and historical meaning that doesn’t disappear just because you want to think it doesn’t matter.

While I personally buy clothes out of functionality more than I ever do to be in a certain style (I think I have my own ‘style’), I don’t judge a man poorly simply because he dresses ‘well’. I dress ‘well’ sometimes myself but not just to go to the store or hit the gym. On goes the functional shirt or tank top and some shorts. However, I do question why someone would ignore the historical significance of a color that is related so strongly to being feminine and then fire off that 'it doesn’t matter!!!". Well, damn, if it truly didn’t matter, you wouldn’t need to defend yourself, would you?

Now, if it does matter to many people and you simply don’t give a shit, then fine as well. Do your thing. Just don’t pretend that tradition, symbolism and history get thrown out of the window simply because of what is in style this year at Abercrombie.

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
marza wrote:
There’s nothing intrinsically feminine about pink - if you talk to art historians they’ll tell you that pink used to be a common color for boys to be wearing in portaits (or so I’ve read, art history wasn’t my thing).

Bullshit.

[/quote]

Well, here’s one site that agrees w/ me:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=238733
at least from a western art history POV.

I’m a woman, I can wear any color I want w/o feeling the need to defend myself.

[quote]

Now, if it does matter to many people and you simply don’t give a shit, then fine as well. Do your thing. Just don’t pretend that tradition, symbolism and history get thrown out of the window simply because of what is in style this year at Abercrombie.[/quote]

Honestly, I don’t believe that it’s quite as black and white as you’re making it out to be. But, in truth, I’d have to say I throw in my lot with the people who don’t give a shit what others think (unless there’s some reason why I have to care).

59

Damn people! Don’t you realize that pink is the new black?

60

[quote]emdawgz1 wrote:
This young guy (21) is working @ my place of business as an intern. They are allowed to dress casually. So he comes in yesterday wearing flip flops and …pants rolled to mid calf like capri pants!

So i say to him “dude, your wearing capri pants?”

He says no, guys wear these…

“Capri pants???”

“no i got these @ j crew”

“i dont care where you got them, they are womens pants!”

WTH!?!?!?

If j crew starts selling lacy bra’s for men will guys start wearing those too???

This kid isnt gay, but …

Whatever happened to Masculinity???[/quote]

Welcome to the feminization of American boys into little play toys. You won’t find them in the “Brotherhood of Iron” thread… that’s where the men are.

I could just kill Leonardo DiCaprio and Orlando Bloom for getting famous and trying to represent men. Why couldn’t it be me, Amsterdam Animal, and Professor X in the movies. Not one of us under a deuce and we all have bigger legs than our sisters.