Got 445 by 12 today, last rep is pretty ugly and hitched it pretty good, probably should of stopped at 11 but I like grinding em out and gotta one up one of the guys I lift with.
[video]1750[/video]
deads today for week 2 of my first 5/3/1 cycle. I pulled in my boots today, I won’t do this again unless my soles are flat. I alternated between sumo and conventional, pulling my last set sumo.
5x200
5x245
3x295
3x395
3x420
5x445
BBB
10x265, only did three sets here
Damn! Pulled my back again. I can’t tell if it’s due to weakness or due to not being recovered. I was doing axle clean. Stayed tight but my back just gave out right around the knee. I could feel seperation.
I know how to recover from this but I haven’t been able to prevent the issue from occuring. I think the main cause is going hard and heavy each session an not being able to recover. Any ideas?
did some speed work this week, I am gonna try 545 next session even if I never tried to pull something heavier than 505
but now I am fucking sick and I hope there will be no consequence on my training
Stormthebeach I watched some of your youtube video and you guys are hardcore, I hope one day I’ll be where you are
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
Damn! Pulled my back again. I can’t tell if it’s due to weakness or due to not being recovered. I was doing axle clean. Stayed tight but my back just gave out right around the knee. I could feel seperation.
I know how to recover from this but I haven’t been able to prevent the issue from occuring. I think the main cause is going hard and heavy each session an not being able to recover. Any ideas?[/quote]
I’d wanna watch you axle clean. From the side and back a bit if you have video. What interests me is that you had the problem on the clean but not the deadlift, telling me that your clean uses a different form than your deadlift. While a clean SHOULD be different than a deadlift, if anything it should be safer because of body positions, otherwise you’re doing something wrong.
Also, you say you know how to recover from this, but do you really? How “recovered” are you if it just happens again? Rehab HAS to be followed by prehab.
Going to pull heavy next lower session. Ab strength is better than it’s ever been so I’m expecting good things to happen.
I MAY have a deadlift suit by then, but if so, I’m gunna try 525 raw before I put it on, chances are I’m just gunna fuck it up anyways though…
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
did some speed work this week, I am gonna try 545 next session even if I never tried to pull something heavier than 505
but now I am fucking sick and I hope there will be no consequence on my training
Stormthebeach I watched some of your youtube video and you guys are hardcore, I hope one day I’ll be where you are[/quote]
Don’t think this is wise. I’d warm up to about 485ish and pick my next attempt based on how that felt, something from 510-525. You always want at least a 5lb PR before you go for gravy, and it helps you determine what the gravy is going to be.
Think of it this way, if you are weak on that particular day because of being sick, then you are going to waste a training session going for a weight you have no chance at making. However, you’re not likely to miss 485, and it shouldn’t fatigue you too much, so at the very least, it’ll help you pick weights that will be productive, and productivity is more important than some internet contest.
[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
Damn! Pulled my back again. I can’t tell if it’s due to weakness or due to not being recovered. I was doing axle clean. Stayed tight but my back just gave out right around the knee. I could feel seperation.
I know how to recover from this but I haven’t been able to prevent the issue from occuring. I think the main cause is going hard and heavy each session an not being able to recover. Any ideas?[/quote]
I’d wanna watch you axle clean. From the side and back a bit if you have video. What interests me is that you had the problem on the clean but not the deadlift, telling me that your clean uses a different form than your deadlift. While a clean SHOULD be different than a deadlift, if anything it should be safer because of body positions, otherwise you’re doing something wrong.
Also, you say you know how to recover from this, but do you really? How “recovered” are you if it just happens again? Rehab HAS to be followed by prehab.[/quote]
Haha. Video? Your ass was supposed to be here!
I can admit I don’t know proper clean form. My clean is more like a faster DL. I had even acknowledged that my hips felt a little tight but I did a lot of mobility work before the attempt
I kept a big arch and pulled it off the floor. At knee level, it felt like my arch just disappeared and next thing you know my hips had rose and back was hurting. Dropped the weight and hobbled off. Maybe I just didn’t stay tight and I thought I had…
In terms of rehab/prehab, you are right. This has happened 4 times since I started training. I know what I have to do to not be bed ridden anymore I guess is the correct thing. I have been trying to work on flexibility/mobility a lot more lately but to no avail it seems.
Edit: A friend pointed out my training intensity has been high for the last month+ and tha I go hard and heavy every session. I’m sure recovery plays a roll
I have always had a flat back when I cleaned. You are using much lighter weight than what you deadlift, so there isn’t a need to keep a hard arch. Don’t round it, but no need to remain perpendicular to floor before starting the movement. From there just jerk the shit out of it.
Sucks about the back though. Mine is finally healing up 
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
Damn! Pulled my back again. I can’t tell if it’s due to weakness or due to not being recovered. I was doing axle clean. Stayed tight but my back just gave out right around the knee. I could feel seperation.
I know how to recover from this but I haven’t been able to prevent the issue from occuring. I think the main cause is going hard and heavy each session an not being able to recover. Any ideas?[/quote]
I’d wanna watch you axle clean. From the side and back a bit if you have video. What interests me is that you had the problem on the clean but not the deadlift, telling me that your clean uses a different form than your deadlift. While a clean SHOULD be different than a deadlift, if anything it should be safer because of body positions, otherwise you’re doing something wrong.
Also, you say you know how to recover from this, but do you really? How “recovered” are you if it just happens again? Rehab HAS to be followed by prehab.[/quote]
Haha. Video? Your ass was supposed to be here!
I can admit I don’t know proper clean form. My clean is more like a faster DL. I had even acknowledged that my hips felt a little tight but I did a lot of mobility work before the attempt
I kept a big arch and pulled it off the floor. At knee level, it felt like my arch just disappeared and next thing you know my hips had rose and back was hurting. Dropped the weight and hobbled off. Maybe I just didn’t stay tight and I thought I had…
In terms of rehab/prehab, you are right. This has happened 4 times since I started training. I know what I have to do to not be bed ridden anymore I guess is the correct thing. I have been trying to work on flexibility/mobility a lot more lately but to no avail it seems.
Edit: A friend pointed out my training intensity has been high for the last month+ and tha I go hard and heavy every session. I’m sure recovery plays a roll[/quote]
I 1000% believe that when you’re training events really hard you HAVE to back off the gym stuff a bit. Events are way harder on the body than typical gym training. Learn to periodize and prioritize things better and you’ll last a lot longer between injuries.
As for being there, you know what my gym days are, hit me up and Adam and I will come out. Just want to warn you though, he’ll make you feel like a little bitch on any kind of pressing movement, I know he makes me feel that way every day we bench or strict press.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I have always had a flat back when I cleaned. You are using much lighter weight than what you deadlift, so there isn’t a need to keep a hard arch. Don’t round it, but no need to remain perpendicular to floor before starting the movement. From there just jerk the shit out of it.
Sucks about the back though. Mine is finally healing up :)[/quote]
If you’re saying that you need less of an arch when doing cleans than when doing deadlifts, I respectfully disagree, and feel as though that anyone trained in the oly lifts will also disagree.
[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I have always had a flat back when I cleaned. You are using much lighter weight than what you deadlift, so there isn’t a need to keep a hard arch. Don’t round it, but no need to remain perpendicular to floor before starting the movement. From there just jerk the shit out of it.
Sucks about the back though. Mine is finally healing up :)[/quote]
If you’re saying that you need less of an arch when doing cleans than when doing deadlifts, I respectfully disagree, and feel as though that anyone trained in the oly lifts will also disagree.[/quote]
I agree with threewhitelights on this.
Watch any of the strong oly lifter on youtube and they have a hard arch when cleaning, and its even more visible on snatches w/ the lighter weight. Any slack in the lower or upper back, which is common on heavy deadlift attempts, and that power will not be getting transferred to the bar.:
I don’t want to derail this topic too much, but I have always followed Rippetoe’s guidance when power cleaning (since Starting Strength was the first real weightlifting program I did on my own). I remember distinctly the discussion on back position differences between the DL and the PC. I was able to find this article linked from the SS Wiki:
Maybe that explains better what I was trying to say–especially the comparison of the PC and an RDL.
Apologies for derailing the thread, but this is a good conversation.
The one thing Rippetoe teaches that is different from some of the more conventional oly technique advice I’ve been exposed to is starting w/ a parallel back on the olympic lifts vs. a bit of a more vertical back position all the above guys have.
This is Justin Lascek, who is a trainer at Rip’s Wichita Falls Athletic Club who demonstrates the Rippetoe prescribed starting position. He’s got a blog at www.70sbig.com which I’ll mention because I used his video:
His back is still tight and hard arched, but he breaks the bar off the ground with a flatter back position than the guys above who do it more upright. At about the knee, the positions are about the same, but it is only that first point where the bar breaks off the floor that they are different.
I read in a Performance Menu article about this topic, that the vertical back position spares the load on the lower back which is the so-called weak link in the equation for oly lifters who snatch, c+j, and squat only.
Rip wants his oly lifters doing heavy deadlifts on a weekly basis so a c+j that is much lower than their deadlift max won’t present much of a fatiguing load.
Its an interesting argument, but most world class oly lifters are still pulling with a more vertical back position off the floor, so I will have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I went and tried this experiment last night with snatches and I was much better with the Rippetoe position.
I’m getting lighter and lighter! I have a surgery coming up soon, that I need to be leaned up for, so have been dieting. DL strength is still there, but i’ve switched to conventional for my lower back’s sake. It needs bringing up big time. Haven’t pulled sumo since my meet.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I don’t want to derail this topic too much, but I have always followed Rippetoe’s guidance when power cleaning (since Starting Strength was the first real weightlifting program I did on my own). I remember distinctly the discussion on back position differences between the DL and the PC. I was able to find this article linked from the SS Wiki:
Maybe that explains better what I was trying to say–especially the comparison of the PC and an RDL.[/quote]
You squat in between your legs, knee forward like Rip says too?
I don’t really wanna get into this, but there is NO way that the back should be looser during a clean than during a deadlift. I think maybe you’re misinterpreting what Rip is saying.
Even the video posted of Rippetoe’s lifter has an arched back. The lower back is arched hard, shoulders are shrugged down and back. His hips are higher than most guys, leading to the back being further from vertical than normal on the snatch, but on the clean they are still lower than a normal deadlift position. However, in both the clean AND the snatch, the lower back is ARCHED.
Even the guys under Don McCauley that have been experimenting with a neutral shoulder posture keep their chest high and their lower back tight.
On an on-topic note, a few days after advising jasmincar that it was more important to get in a productive training session than go-for-broke, I broke… Did warm ups to 475 which felt light, though not fast, with plans to go to 515-520ish. Instead, went for 535 and barely got it to my knees. I was done after that, fuckin stupid. I only deadlift once in every 4 sessions so this was a waste of a rare session, gunna have to wait a month to get another one in.
If I can find a good powerlifting meet that won’t interfere with strongman training, I might plan on hitting 545 there. I know my squat and pull would be competitive in the 181’s, but I have NO idea what I can do on bench except for hitting 225 on incline and 285 on floor press, haven’t been on a regular bench in about a year. My floor press is USUALLY less than my regular bench, but I have a feeling that I’m benching a LOT less than 285 right now.
[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
I 1000% believe that when you’re training events really hard you HAVE to back off the gym stuff a bit. Events are way harder on the body than typical gym training. Learn to periodize and prioritize things better and you’ll last a lot longer between injuries.
As for being there, you know what my gym days are, hit me up and Adam and I will come out. Just want to warn you though, he’ll make you feel like a little bitch on any kind of pressing movement, I know he makes me feel that way every day we bench or strict press.
[/quote]
I agree about needing to back off. I just haven’t been happy with my progress and things were starting to move so I was riding it out. Hopefully this won’t impact my pressing at all (been hitting a axle or log PR every week). I was talking with VTBalla about getting back to 5/3/1 for a bit to wave my intensity better but I am having trouble structuring it.
You only have 2 weeks left to make the trip man. I’m moving south for a little while.
Got 465x9 felt like I could’ve got one more but 9 was good enough for today, deload next week and maybe just try to pull 545 the week after just for fun.
[video]1756[/video]
Someone tried to tell me today that when deadlifting in a competition it’s illegal for the bar to touch your thighs. He said that if you pause and the bar touches your thighs, it’s a bad lift. Just to clarify…I’m not going crazy and he’s an idiot right? I clarified with him that he didn’t mean just hitching it. He means it can’t stop on the thighs at all.
6/29
5/3/1 deadlift day
5x200
5x245
3x295
5x370
3x420
2x470
pin pulls from knees
2x405
1x495
1x545
1x595
Kroc rows
20x150’s
goodmornings
10x135 3 sets
10x185 2 sets
Copy from my training log. 470 felt great, left plenty in the tank. Pin pulls , gripping and pulling 595 is nice, I’ll pull this from the floor real soon.