I think you’ve all hit on it already, but it bears reiterating that volume for volume’s sake doesn’t do much good. Neither does changing what you’re doing too often just because it isn’t quite going your way.
Plenty of people have had success getting more muscular using 5/3/1. Same with other methods. It almost never is the method that doesn’t work, but the user not using it quite right. I’m not taking a shot at you @mortdk, because I’ve done the exact same thing.
I think @simo74 hit on it, and it’s intensity of effort. I only learned that when I signed on with Greg, because I was doing similar movements, similar volume and I didn’t get noticeably bigger. You guys all know that.
If you want to grow, pretty much every set needs to be approached with ball-busting effort, ESPECIALLY the supplemental and assistance work. Just getting through the session quickly is a good start. Add to that pushing yourself with the assistance to the point that that you fucking dread the next set and start slowing down towards the end simply because you’re so beat. Then you’re on the money - this is something @Frank_C raised too. That doesn’t mean load the weight, but be a bodybuilder. Make your muscles scream.
The main lifts are different because you’re working on technique. That’s the focus. If there’s an AMRAP or AFSAP, sure, hit it hard, but don’t sacrifice technique and bar speed for reps and effort.
@marko I agree and this seems to be inline with some posts that @T3hPwnisher put up a couple of days ago. If you are building muscle you should probably hate your training a little!
Woke at 79 kg - 174,2 lbs
2350 calories yesterday: 180C, 167P, 104F
I had 3½ hard sets of squats 90 kg x 8 was rpe 10 with decent form, could have grinded out more with bad bad technique the next 50% set was a 10 again, the mTor set was a 10 again. The 25 rep was just plenty reps.
The bulgarians was maybe a 9 rpe wise. Might do them as drop set next week.
So that’s 4 hard sets then I’m doing two more saturday, all up 6 sets, which according to Paul Carter should be enough, that’s why I’m trying this.
According to him 10x10 is junk volume that won’t get you stronger or bigger.
You can’t go balls out on 10 sets of 10.
I’ll give it that my bulgarians isn’t very impressive but they should grow pretty quick.
I might try to set something up, so I could do leg extensions with bands. But I’m pretty beat up with yesterdays workout.
And my squat reps are improving both in technique and reps, so that’s a double win for me.
My DL is going up as well.
The pressing movements are absolutely not, and I do more sets for those, that’s the reason for dropping a bit on those.
@MarkKO I’m not doing the 531 exactly as laid out, because I’m doing higher rep work and I’m going to keep the weights until I reach a certain rep number.
Yes I do change my programs every 4 or 5 months, mostly because I’m not competing and don’t need to do a 1RM.
And this is what I’m trying to do, I do dread the next set, so I’m hoping I’ll grow, but at 55 it is fairly difficult, but I’m trying.
That would suck big time, I’ll try it, maybe only one drop set, would you make the iso holds at the bottom/stretched position. ?
I tried them today and they are awful. I couldn’t d the 4th round. I did the hold at the bottom position. I’ve started putting my rear ankle on the pad of the decline bench. You could use a barbell in the rack too (just put a pad/towel on it).
As I said above just putting this in here for conversation. Only you know how hard your session was and the results will speak for themselves in the end. Just interested to see what everyone else thinks. If you are following a proven program as it’s written then I’m sure you’ll get what you want.
Oh I am not following a program, I’m trying to follow some guidelines laid out by Carter and CT, saying to grow you need to do a few sets, but take them to failure in the growth building rep ranges 8 - 12 and even beyond for lower body.
And I like the conversation, because a lot of guys apparently have grown from a lot of volume. 10x10 and 531 BBB (5x10) has been used by a lot of peeps who have grown from it.
Now I’m just trying something different, and I do believe that if you add reps and or weight to the bar you will grow and you will get stronger.
I did a around 6 month doing rep PR’s with 531 in different ways, it was one of the numerous challenges from Jim, and every week I did put in several PR’s.
I do think I got stronger during that time.
I strayed away from that path and did as you know Kroc’s deadlift program (the rest was 531 work) then I did Brians work, then CT’s work then my own. I started BBB and read up on BB stuff and here I am trying to build mass and get stronger.
I think the conversation in Paul’s thread suggests that this may have worked, but was it necessary? Perhaps those same people would’ve grown with just 2-3 sets at a higher intensity.
If you use the same weight for 5x10 or 10x10 then most of the sets are just making you fatigued to the point where the final sets achieve the desired stimulation.
I prefer to use more weight or change the tempo so that it’s tough on the first set. Why waste time?
Mort you improved a decent amount running krocs program if I’m not mistaken? For whatever reason I felt like I actually got weaker using this program. I followed it to the letter as well and even deloaded when I didn’t feel tired. Stumped.
I’m in a similar boat as you, Mort. I’m finally realizing lots of volume isn’t always better, especially for warm-ups and back-off. “Less is more,” even if it felt like an easy workout.
After my heaviest set for a compound move, I’ve learned that a lighter-weight burnout set is helpful. Like others here, I’m also experimenting with Carter’s 50% set. On the flip side, I’ve read @isdatnutty’s log, and straight sets have worked very well for him. @simo74 follows a similar approach. It seems @Frank_C’s current approach is also proving Carter to be right - muscle AND strength are best built with a moderate amount of intelligently intense, focused work.
This sound like a simple sentence but in practice it can be more complicated. What determines intelligent intensity ? And is it different for everyone ?
Nice work @mortdk good to see you still pushing hard. Looking at this deadlifts I rekon you would benefit from sitting back or dropping your hips a little more. When the weight hits the floor it looks like you shoulders are in front of the bar and as you go up the weight moved forward a little. This isn’t the strongest place to pull from. Or may just be the camera angle.
