I’ve tried the 5x10 approach and the first three sets aren’t really that challenging. The final two sets probably accomplish whatever is necessary to stimulate muscle growth, but why waste so much time and energy to get there?
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So is it better just to do 2 or 3x10 with a heavier weight?
Size is my current goal so I’m going all out once I’m warmed up. For my heavier sets, I go to failure, rest 15 sec, go to failure, rest 15 sec, go to failure (double rest/pause).
I also use Paul Carter’s 50% sets. Go to failure, rest 1 minute, go to failure with the goal of getting half the reps as the first set. So if I got 10 reps on my first bout then I’m hoping for at least five reps after that 1 minute of rest.
There are other methods/techniques that I’m using but you can check out my log for the details. I’ve been kind of going crazy with intensification techniques lately.
I’ve started using double rest pause on some stuff, really liking it so far. You’re getting 3 sets to failure in a minute or two. I’ve looked at your log and am impressed with all the intensifying stuff you’ve been doing, I think it would wipe me out. I’m sure I’ve read some where that this would be the case for novices, but those, like you, with much more experience can cope better.
Is rest/pause same as DogCrapp?
I started out with Best Damn. I was doing the two preparatory sets and the third set was to failure. I would do rest/pause, mTor sets to failure and then a iso hold or stretch, and my reps. I started doing drop sets with my mTor sets. I started doing multiple sets to failure with each technique. I guess you could say I built up to it but there has to be a limit. I don’t want to find out how much is too much. My new plan will have some regulation.
I think DC does an all out double rest/pause set for each movement. I’m not sure if it’s harder or different than what I’ve been doing. I mean, how can one push past failure? I’ve heard it’s brutal training but I don’t see how it could be much different than what I’m doing. Maybe I need a training partner to help me to assisted reps to push past failure.
Got a running session in today:
1 km in 4 min 29 seconds 8 seconds improvement.
then I did 3 x 200 m in about 42 seconds each.
Planned to do 5 x 200 but thought that it was to much so cruised the last 400 m in 2 min dead. Overall very happy with this.
@boyce79 I am all in for Jims stuff and BBB is one a lot of people likes a lot. For me it’s to much, I’m going for 1 set of double rest pause on the main set follow it by a mTor set or maybe myo reps I’m going to try something different the next couple of weeks. Thinking about it I’m pausing DL FSL sets and that seem to work quite well.
@whang yes DC is double rest pause with a very extended extreme stretch at the end. I can’t recall how many exercises for each body part.
But @Frank_C and I starts to have a very similar approach to training, I am trying to get rit of some of the excess junk volume I’m doing.
For novices just about everything works according to most of the coaches. Because the weight is quite low, the strain on the body isn’t that hard. But I think one is novice for only about 6 month or so. (that is a quess).
I would suggest to start reading the tread in Poul Carters forum about what works for building muscle.
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Have been reading through that Paul Carter thread so haven’t been much around on everybody elses log. Will catch up during the week.
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Double rest pause followed by an isometric hold on the exercises it is feasible followed by a weighted extreme stretch.
One exercise (rotating three) per bodypart per session.
Probably similar to what T3hPwnisher considers a true AMRAP set vs what normal human beings would consider a true AMRAP set.
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Woke at 78,7 kg - 173,5 lbs
No tracking yesterday.
Todays training
Viking 531 w/BB assistance
C1W2D1 OHP TM 50 kg
Warmup: Ergorower, kneeling bottom up kb press, bpa, yoga flow.
Wenning warm up
3 x 20 @ pull down
3 x 20 @ rope triceps press
3 x 20 @ 8 kg seated db press
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OHP
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3 x 35, 40 kg
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7 x 45 kg + 5 50% set
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FSL 8 x 35 kg + 2 rest pause (Mtor style)
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DB Bench
- 25 kg x 8, 14
DB one arm lat raise + one arm push press
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10 kg x 5+5
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15 kg x 6+6
lat raise
- 10 kg x 18, 8 kg x 6, 6 kg x 6 drop set
Standing DB press
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3 x 17,5 kg overload set.
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350 set @ 14 kg: 14, 10, 9 reps (33 reps)
dip
- 12 + 5 x 2 myo reps 10 second pause
Skull crusher ez bar
- 32,5 kg x 9 + 4 + 2 rest pause
3 headed monster
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10 x 6 kg
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12 x 6 kg + 4 reps rest pause
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1 hour + 15 minutes warm up.
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OHP was disastrous only got 7 reps, last month it was 9 and a year ago I did 5 reps with 55 kg, 10 reps with 47 kg, and at the end of January this year I did 11 reps with 47 kg.
So I’m going to look a bit into the training, maybe I’m doing too much.
Today was 7 or 8 hard sets.
Next week I’m going to change a little again
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Not sure you are doing too much but you may be trying to achieve too many goals at once. I think you need to really decide what is important to you. Is it strength, is it fitness, it it physique?
I don’t believe you can work for more than one master. You mention wanting to add some muscle and doing more BB type work, then you worry about PR’s and relative strength. You need to stop and really think what is important and what gets you excited to train HARD.
I trained BB style for many years and tracked all my workouts. I slowly added weight or reps over time and two things happened, I added muscle and I got stronger. My main focus was adding muscle and that’s all I cared about but by being consistent and pushing really hard the side effect was increased strength.
Interestingly since returning to the gym 3 years ago all I have focused on is strength. All my focus has been on slowly adding strength. I only did programs that allowed me to add weight over time and accessories were to support weak spots or technique. The result was I got stronger, albeit slower that I wanted but that’s life. The side effect of this training was I also gained muscle. I look as good now as I’ve ever looked (adjusted for age) and I haven’t done any real BB work.
I guess my point here, is when I focused on BB I didn’t care about PR’s but I did try to progress reps and weights. When I focused on strength I didn’t care about muscles I just got stronger.
But the results for both approaches were basically the same.
If you want to BB then do it but don’t worry about rep PR’s it is irrelevant for your goal. If you want to eat stronger drop all the fluff and really knuckle down to a proven strength program that suits you and don’t worry about how big your calves are!!
Good luck figuring it out.
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Nailed it! I think the training can be similar but your mindset is not. You can’t get upset or worry about how many reps you did if you’re training for looks.
When training for strength you get satisfaction from moving big weights. When training for looks you get satisfaction by flexing in front of the mirror. 
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Lmao some of us try to lift big weights and still have a sneaky flex !!
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@simo74 @Frank_C I want to add mass (muscles).
That’s gonna be hard I know that, but I’ll give it a go.
Right now I’m following Paul Carter, I’ve read the thread about what is the main driver for muscle growth.
I’m trying to implement that in my training.
What according to Paul is most important is to add weight or reps to the bar in the rep range of 8 - 12 reps and maybe even more on lower body work.
Volume is a killer, and sets are supposed to be taken to failure.
Working sets (sets taken to failure or very close rpe 9,5) should be around 8 sets pr week.
Yesterday I did 7 or 8 hard sets for delts (even more if I’m using J’s method for counting). I’m doing 1 more set on my bench day + an incline db press. That is why I’m going to rethink this a little bit. meaning 2 more sets.
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What I will do is keeping the weights on the 3 wendler weeks and stay with that weight until I reach 13-14 reps on my 5 day, 10 - 12 reps on my 3 day and 8-9 reps on my 1 day, then I’m going to add weight to the bar. The same goes for bench. Squat I’m going to push to 18 - 15 - 12 reps before I’m increasing weight.
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DL I am going to ad 5 lbs every cycle and work until I only can get 3 reps on my 1 week, and I’m doing some speed work on my squat day as well.
I’m trying to explain my reasons for what I’m doing. If you guys think I should do something different please let me now.
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Keep doing what you’re doing and making adjustments along the way. The only change I think you should make is how you view your 5/3/1 training.
Keep doing it but don’t get upset about your performance.
If it was my program then I wouldn’t do 5/3/1. I’d pick a the weight from one of the weeks that allows me to get 7-8 reps. I’d use that weight and do rest/pause sets every week until I could do 10 reps on the first “set”. I wouldn’t change the weight until I did that.
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Woke at 79 kg - 174,2 lbs
only 2100 calories yesterday 167C, 206P, 58F.
Todays training
Viking 531 FSL w/DL speed assistance
C2W2D2 Squat TM 100 kg.
Warm up: airdyne, McGill big 3, BPA, bw squats, lazy lifter.
giant set warm up
4 sets of: Glute bridge x 10/Jump x 3/Squat/Hanging leg raise x 6
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Squat
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3 x 70 kg
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3 x 80 kg
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3 x 90 kg (kind of a feeder set)
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8 x 90 kg 50% set x 5
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FSL 7 @ 70 kg mTor
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widowmaker 25 x 30 kg
Deadlift speed
- 6 x 3 @ 90 kg
Bulgarian split squat
- 10, 15 @ 8 kg’s db.
chin up
- 6, 12 reps
Kroc row
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5 x 22,5 kg
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3 x 37,5 kg (over warm up)
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22 x 32,5 kg
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55 minutes + 15 minutes warm up.
Squats were good top set felt good and strong, form started breaking a bit by rep 6, kept it up to 8, and called it there.
25 rep squats all nice and easy, a good way to build the weight up (I think)
Bulgarians was good, and chins and kroc’s as well.
@Frank_C I’ve been thinking about that as well. I am doing it like that sort of, I’m just doing it with 85 kg, 90 kg and 95 kg until I reach the desired weight. It’s a bit slower process, but I like it that way. But It’ll be the next thing I’ll change I guess, if these new changes don’t work. Btw squat and DL are progressing very nicely. I’m really hoping to reach a 4 plate DL and maybe even beyond by the end of the year.
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I think you are right on track with higher reps and adding weight as you progress the movements.
An old powerlifter here was talking about his training and they did just that worked with a weight until they owned it. Then find a new place to begin the process again from.
With my squats I’m seeing just the kind of gains you are talking about.
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Mort looking at your squats from last night I am wondering if you would get a better result from a more straight forward approach. I’m not saying to change merely starting a conversation. It would be good to get others input too. @Frank_C @robstein @The_Mighty_Stu seem to know where it’s at for building muscle maybe they have an opinion.
Looking at your session from last night I wonder how much of it was warm up light pump work and how much actually pushed your muscles hard enough to create a growth response.
Here is my thoughts:
- 3 x 70 kg - warm up
- 3 x 80 kg - warm up
- 3 x 90 kg (kind of a feeder set) - warm up albeit a harder one
- 8 x 90 kg 50% set x 5 - hard set -maybe 7 hard reps
- FSL 7 @ 70 kg mTor. - not sure how hard these are for you but let’s assume they are tough
- widowmaker 25 x 30 kg - these probably feel horrible but are these just a pump and cardio set ?
So all up 1 set of 7 hard reps, 1 mTor set of 7 reps and a light pump. Is this enough? Would a straight forward pyramid system with some drop sets or patial/forced reps be better. Or even a good old fashioned 10 x 10 ??
Discuss.
If I were able to squat then I’d get warmed up and push one max set. I’d shoot for at least 10 reps. I’d rest for 15-20 sec and then go again. I’d do that a third time.
That’s not far off from 5/3/1. It even has a rest/pause option.
That’s only one set for legs though. If you want them to grow then they’ll need more. RFESS or lunges would be next on my list. One set to failure would be plenty for me (something like the dropset of death).
After that I’d do RDLs or leg curls. I’d probably do a normal tempo to failure for RDLs and mTor or drop sets for leg curls.
I’d finish with leg extensions, Tabata squats, or 2 minute leg press.
That’s not eight working sets but that’s enough suffering for me.