So what can we “pretty guys” do? Is there any way to make the jaw wider (without breaking and resetting it)? Is there some way to make oneself look more masculine and less pretty (all the lifting in the world won’t make a skinny face look more manly… or will it)?
Thoughts here, guys (and girls), I’m dyin’ here!
I thought girls liked the “pretty boy” look? What do you mean about getting more manly? Are you trying to add muscle? Grow facial hair? Get more of a rough look? I’m far from being a pretty boy, and I wish I was taller, but hey, these are the cards I was dealt. I can’t put on much size or thickness, especially since I am short and small boned. But if you’re trying to get a more “manly” look, why don’t you do something cutting edge with your hair, grow some facial hair (goatee), and just keeping hitting the weights! And don’t train like a pretty boy!
Girls do NOT like the pretty boy look, I don’t care what the “Studies” say. At least, the girls in my age bracket (18-23… I’m 21) and area (University of Maryland,CP) don’t. I’ve been told several times that I “look like a girl” or am “too pretty.” You can see how this would be disconcerting to me. I’m probably an endomorph, and I have a lot of difficulty keeping fat off and gaining any muscle. I’m currently cutting (again) to try and get myself into somewhat reasonable shape for Fall. Perhaps the Methoxy I ordered will help.
Currently doing GVT2k (that doesn’t seem like training like a pretty boy), and I may be doing Ian King’s 12 weeks to superstrength along w/ the limping series in a couple of weeks.
Body wise, I’m not small framed. It’s just my face. I have big eyes and long hair (a must since I have a pea-sized head), and I can’t really grow much of a beard or goatee. I’d like to, like I said, somehow “chisel” my jaw to get that lantern look, but I doubt that’s even possible.
Hey, I don’t have that chisel jaw either. But I thought all pretty boys had the chisel jaw that you see on the male models? Yep, you may need to cut the hair. I know you’re worried about having a small head (I have a small head and very short hair), but the long hair isn’t the key to a more manly look. As for facial hair, if you can’t grow it, then you just have to stay clean shaven.
As for training, if you are a natural endomorph, why not stick with something that has you doing more fast-paced training. GVT might work (I was never crazy about it), or maybe you need something like Coach Davies recommends. His workouts are brutal, and they will get you leaner. But of course, being lean has to do with diet. And even if you are a natural endomorph, I’m sure your diet could be tweaked to further help your cause. What do you eat now? Do you have it written down? Send it to us to critique.
One thing I can say is that you should stay away from processed foods (crackers, cookies, meat and cheese products, white breads, anything else man made). I've noticed that I can easily gain weight if I eat bread, rice and pasta. So I have pretty much eliminated those things from my diet. When I eat bread, I eat whole wheat. And I rarely touch the rice and pasta. Get all your carbs from fruits and veggies. Drink lots of water, stay away from coffee, soda, fruit juices, alcohol. Eat lean meats, eat frequent meals with smaller portions. And check out Chris Shugart's article "The Diet Manifesto" for more info! I don't think dieting has to be so difficult. I don't believe in ketogenic diets (I'm sure they work) because I like my fruits and veggies. And if you only eat fruits and veggies for your carbs, then it is hard to eat even 45-50 percent of your daily calories in carbs. Yet, you'll still get all the fiber, nutrients and carbs for energy that you need. Do it up my man!
let me just say this, i don’t give a crap what the so-called ideal is. i don’t wanna look like a calvin clein model, or a back street boy. i wanna scare those lads to death with the mere sight of me. i wanna be a FREAK, the biggest, strongest guy around. Any women who says she prefers the lean semi muscular look is not really interested in a real man. or they are just to scared the man will get more attention than she will get. right now, i’m 5’7 at about 275lbs. guys talk about wearing a 43 jacket, oh please, thats a little baby, i wore a size 60 jacket 2 years ago, and i am certainly bigger now. People who stand out, will always get more attention than those that don’t stand out. when u go into a bar or club, who do u think is going to get more action, those guys who look like every other guy, or the 1 or 2 huge dudes walking around. especially if u smile at the girls, and don’t scare them. there is just no comparison. i have no limits when it comes to size and strength, there is never a limit, u can never be to big or strong. i work as a bouncer at a club in mass, and trust me, i can go all night long without saying one word to any women, yet they will start up conversations with me.
Irondoc, I agree with your response which said that it’s not necessary to wear extra tight or “sprayed on t-shirts” to show off your physique. Women can definitely tell if you are well built. Myself, I’m 6 feet and fluctuate at 185-190 lbs. I had a bodyfat test done about 3 weeks ago by calipers which had me at about 5%. I’m not bragging but I do get comments when I go to the clubs. A few bouncers have asked me to work as a bouncer and this one female bartender have asked me a few times to enter the male hot body contest(i said no of course)! I don’t think I’m very big but I guess I do have nice build.
Well, right now I’m on a keto diet. Mostly I’m eating tuna (4-6 cans daily, whichever I can stomach…blech :-P), a salad w/green lettuce and regular ranch (fat,fat,fat). Sometimes I’ll have either one of those low-carb bars or some small tobasco chicken wings (non-fried). On workout days, I have two scoops of surge. I end up at 1300-1500 calories a day (I did a diet log for a couple of weeks to make sure of this). I take one free day a week, usually still taking in under 2000 calories, but eating some goodies. I’m using GVT2k right now, on a 4 day a week training schedule (ala Ian King), and I may add in some cardio on saturdays.
I’ve read the diet manifesto (as well as almost everything else posted on the site) :). I’m also taking 4-5 MD6 (old formula) a day, and Vitex. Just came off of T2 and Tribex (old formula), with Androsol prior to that.
Whew.
In terms of pretty boys having the lantern jaw, I think the term may have been muddled. The original meaning of pretty boy is a person that has pretty or feminine qualities to their features. This usually entails a thinner, more feminine face and a slender jawline. The look in Men’s Health is probably best-described as “casually athletic,” and while the guys are certainly good-looking,they aren’t generally pretty boys (from what I’ve seen).
If only I like to date old women…
Just getting back to the original post, just wanted to say that dispite what is being said about women’s look, I don’t think you can really change a couple of millions of years of evolution, unless you have a very deviant societal change. (giraffe women in africa, small feet woman of Imperial China, and some stuff in Polynesia) Basically, when we look at a woman, and them at us, we look for specific markers which our a general representation of your genes, for example, everything that is usually associated with manliness, broad shoulders, relatively square jaw, pecs, good arms and a V shape upper body are representation of hormonal impacts of your gene through out developpement. Taking into accout that before the 1950, basically nobody worked out, when you looked at someone it would be a what you see is what you get type of gene menu, now when can fool people with weight training and supplements and diet manipulation (thank God). What is found as markers for women, the 0.7 waist to hip ration, the full breast, the fuller lips, especially the lower one, small feet and long neck…these show good progesterone/estrogen ratios through out developpement. Some of these markers are in some societies, like I said earlier, pushed to their extreme, but this is extremely rare. On the other hand, exageration of these markers for women, so they look more feminine as always been around, make-up is used for this simple purpose…
And against what some studies say…I really dont think that a man’s ideal for women has really changed, sure you get those: But look at the figurines we found in that cave, the women they wanted must have been 400lbs, and look at those renessance paintings…big but small tits like the Greco-roman statues, and look at the actress of the 20’…basically no breast and what about Marilyn Monroe and then the skinny girls of the 70’ to the ultra-thin models of today…surely society really influences our perception of the ideal!..
Well, strangly on most of these account I think it’s all around false, I was reading an edition of playboy a couple of years ago, and in it you had the average body size of the playmates through out their history…something starting like in the late 40’s I think…and guess what…the magic number 36-24-36.
The images society shoots at us is not always want people really crave...If I showed a guy any real model today...wich are supposed to be the top beauty wise, most guys find them ugly, especially naked, no hips, no tits, no waist, and bones all over, basically an androgenous human, a guy, a guy, a concentration camp survivor...can't tell for sur.
Now, when we look at guys, look back at the greeco-roman statues of the gods/demi-gods/heroes and great (real) leaders…basically they look like a leaner and a bit more muscular Russel Crowe, with abs, big pecs and big arms…and don’t forget the shoulders.
And when looking back to the oldies…where guys had some much less muscles…I think it is pretty safe to say from all the movies made about it, that the girls always went for the guys in the football team at first (then falling head overheels for an average joe…we want chicks so bad…)
Difference nowadays…we kinda know what we should look like, and can work towards this in an enlightened manner, whereas a couple of decades ago, it was reserved for a certain elite of Arnold and Franco and the likes.
Of course there is variation (biodiversity as it’s uses)…I like Pamela Anderson…but I also like the petite girl with the very cute ass in my pharmacology class…but if I could put a D-cup on that frame…shit…here goes another pair of boxers…
Basically, it's mainly hardwired generally, whatever society is supposed to send as a message, doesn't mean it works...why do I still pause my zapping when I go through an ol'rerun of BayWatch, but I do not when a see a fashion parade/walk-on stage/march whatever...just like the girl in my high school...couldn't get a date, tall, too thin, no tits, no hips...a flat board, a 2X4, and what is she doing now...last I heard, went to Japan to model for a while and can be seen on the covers of a couple of ''famous'' women's mags...would I screw her...Hell no, execpt maybe moments like this when studying for my neurology class as lost ''wow, this is cool'' effect a couple of hundred pages back...and even then...I have a big harddrive, and pics and vids take up sooooo little space...
Anyways,
AlexH
I’ve heard stories about actors in the 50’s and 60’s that hid the fact they even worked out because you were supposed to be “naturally” athletic looking. If you look at movies like Ben Hur and Spartacus you can see that the male ideal actually hasn’t changed that much if you accept the Calvin Klein look as being “in”.
When I took art history, one of the things we talked about was the concept of beauty and how it has changed throughout the ages. There were a couple of cultures that idealized the “wasp waist” in a female, but virtually all cultures looked to tall, powerfully built men as ideals in their art. This was probably because there was an evolutionary and societal interest in having males that were fit to do battle. Spiritual leaders and the like, however, were much more varied in their appearance. After all, the physical could be neglected in a man that dealt with the “other world” in many cultures.
I think our culture leans towards the old Greek philosophy of a sound mind in a sound body… both parts are equally important to the whole.
Eh. Screw it. If I could just get a six-pack, I could die happy. 
Conan…you’re “out there” bro…hehe. Can’t say I disagree with you though.
first I agree that there is no limit(and I wish more people thought that way). but you are NOT liveing with reality. as a man who has spent most of his adult life working in bars and nightclubs you are NOT most womens ideal, which should be fine with you. the flirt(and trust me I know they DO a hell of alot more) because you work there. women, in general, do NOT think 5’7" 275# is ideal, they actualy think thats pretty fat (you may not be but I asked women that work for me what they think). I’m sure you are in pretty good shape and I am sure you are big and strong but you are odd to most, accept it and enjoy it (I sure as hell do). you have NO reason to try and be “accepted” just accept you are different and that there ARE women that think you are ideal, just NOT most. peace