Okay brick on a routine like I posted:
Day 1: Chest x 2, Shoulders x 2, Triceps x 2
Day 2: Quads x 3, Hammies x 2, Calves x 1
Day 3: Back x 3-4, Biceps x 2
Day 4: Off.
Day 5: Chest x 2, Shoulders x 2, Triceps x 2
Day 6: Quads x 3, Hammies x 2, Calves x 1
Day 7: Back x 3-4, Biceps x 2
Day 8: Off.
And you’re a beginner like me, and you want to gain as much muscle as possible, how would you go about it with rep scheme/exercise selection?
[quote]Liv92 wrote:
Okay brick on a routine like I posted:
Day 1: Chest x 2, Shoulders x 2, Triceps x 2
Day 2: Quads x 3, Hammies x 2, Calves x 1
Day 3: Back x 3-4, Biceps x 2
Day 4: Off.
Day 5: Chest x 2, Shoulders x 2, Triceps x 2
Day 6: Quads x 3, Hammies x 2, Calves x 1
Day 7: Back x 3-4, Biceps x 2
Day 8: Off.
And you’re a beginner like me, and you want to gain as much muscle as possible, how would you go about it with rep scheme/exercise selection? [/quote]
I understood what you meant. You meant you’ll do a set of exercises on day 1,2, and 3 and a different set of exercises on 5,6, and 7. You might benefit from that, but as a beginner it’s completely unnecessary because a beginner has to make hardly any changes in training as they go along in the first half year or maybe more.
What do I recommend? The same stuff I recommended in my OP - the same shit all bodybuilders do - 3 to 4 sets of 6 to 8 or 8 to 12 reps.
As we discussed before, 3 to 4 sets of an exercise using 225 pounds for a top set would look like this:
Warmup:
85 x 15 - 20
105 x 12
125 x 8
145 x 6
Sets:
165 x 8 - 10
185 x 8 - 10
225 x 8 - 10
This is how I do things. If you want to try it, go ahead and see if it feels alright to you.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
As we discussed before, 3 to 4 sets of an exercise using 225 pounds for a top set would look like this:
Warmup:
85 x 15 - 20
105 x 12
125 x 8
145 x 6
Sets:
165 x 8 - 10
185 x 8 - 10
225 x 8 - 10
This is how I do things. If you want to try it, go ahead and see if it feels alright to you. [/quote]
For some reason I didn’t catch this before, so you even have ramping sets as higher rep? Generally I see something like maybe
165x5
195x3
235x8-10
so that the earlier sets aren’t fatiguing you out so much for the final set. Well, that’s what I’ve seen from CC and some others here…I don’t know if I’ve seen too many bodybuilding videos where the lower rep sets are done though.
Something I’m messing around with on paper…
Day 1: Chest/Triceps
Day 2: Quads/Hams
Day 3: Shoulder/Traps
Day 4: Back/Biceps
Now either day off and repeat or run it for 6 days, take Sunday off, 6 days, Sunday off and that completes one cycle and you get exactly 3 of each workout in two weeks.
3 exercises (usually 2 compound, 1 isolation). First exercise 4-6 reps, Second exericse 8-10 reps, Third exercise, 12-15 reps.
Example:
Chest/Triceps
BB Bench sets of 4-6
DB Incline Bench sets of 8-10
Cable Crossover sets of 12-15
Close Grip Bench sets of 4-6
Skulls sets of 8-10
Rope Pushdown sets of 12-15
Keep rep parameter the same but change the exercises next time so that you have an A and B workout that you just alternate.
Alan
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
As we discussed before, 3 to 4 sets of an exercise using 225 pounds for a top set would look like this:
Warmup:
85 x 15 - 20
105 x 12
125 x 8
145 x 6
Sets:
165 x 8 - 10
185 x 8 - 10
225 x 8 - 10
This is how I do things. If you want to try it, go ahead and see if it feels alright to you. [/quote]
For some reason I didn’t catch this before, so you even have ramping sets as higher rep? Generally I see something like maybe
165x5
195x3
235x8-10
so that the earlier sets aren’t fatiguing you out so much for the final set. Well, that’s what I’ve seen from CC and some others here…I don’t know if I’ve seen too many bodybuilding videos where the lower rep sets are done though.
[/quote]
I don’t go crazy with warmups as you can see. Anyway, the first ramping sets are like “working warmup” sets.
I don’t go with such low reps because volume is still important and leads to a training effect.
3 to 4 sets of 10 is 30 to 40 total reps. In your example above, you have 16 to 20 total reps. Volume is counted as total reps done with over 70 percent of your 1 rep max or tonnage (total weight lifted for total reps). Besides, what do you think when people write 5 x 5, 3 x 8 to 10, etc? I think any decent writer would write 5,3,1 for reps of subsequent sets if that was the case. These rampup sets are not so difficult, but do have a training effect.
I don’t go crazy with this shit with planning as some people on here do. I’m making progress in my current routine, and that’s what counts. I don’t bodybuild anymore, but use 3 to 4 x 8 to 12 in nearly all of my assistance stuff - the bodybuilding METHOD.
I personaly don’t like as many warmups, but then again I’m not as strong…
Bench
45 x 15
95 x 10
135 x 10
155 x 10
185 x 8-10
Squats would take longer…
45 x 15
95 x 10
135 x 10
185 x 10
205 x 10
225 x 8-10
Basically working in 25s and 45s until I get to a weight that feels right to start the ‘real’ sets.
As far as the lower rep warmups go…I have a simple brain while working out…
That and if you’re feeling too fatigued, then take more rest.
Alan
And Pumped:
Judging from your thread on weight loss, I strongly suggest you check out JB’s G-Flux articles. I’ve been dropping weight like crazy with NO caloric restriction!
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Something I’m messing around with on paper…
Day 1: Chest/Triceps
Day 2: Quads/Hams
Day 3: Shoulder/Traps
Day 4: Back/Biceps
Now either day off and repeat or run it for 6 days, take Sunday off, 6 days, Sunday off and that completes one cycle and you get exactly 3 of each workout in two weeks.
3 exercises (usually 2 compound, 1 isolation). First exercise 4-6 reps, Second exericse 8-10 reps, Third exercise, 12-15 reps.
Example:
Chest/Triceps
BB Bench sets of 4-6
DB Incline Bench sets of 8-10
Cable Crossover sets of 12-15
Close Grip Bench sets of 4-6
Skulls sets of 8-10
Rope Pushdown sets of 12-15
Keep rep parameter the same but change the exercises next time so that you have an A and B workout that you just alternate.
Alan[/quote]
I’ve seen that done before, particularly amongst Scott Abel and his clients.
I don’t know - perhaps I’m just a minimalist or a simpleton when it comes to training. For me, the less change and parameters, the better. I HATE making this stuff intricate and complicated. Just drives me nuts.
But for those of you who have success with more intricate methods - hat’s off to you!
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
I personaly don’t like as many warmups, but then again I’m not as strong…
Bench
45 x 15
95 x 10
135 x 10
155 x 10
185 x 8-10
Squats would take longer…
45 x 15
95 x 10
135 x 10
185 x 10
205 x 10
225 x 8-10
Basically working in 25s and 45s until I get to a weight that feels right to start the ‘real’ sets.
As far as the lower rep warmups go…I have a simple brain while working out… That and if you’re feeling too fatigued, then take more rest.
Alan[/quote]
Well, the weaker someone is, the less warmup sets they need.
As I wrote, I use low reps for warmup sets, but not for “working warmup” sets.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t go crazy with this shit with planning as some people on here do. I’m making progress in my current routine, and that’s what counts.[/quote]
I feel like some of my ramp sets kept my blast set at a lower weight than when I was ramping with singles or triple reps. By the time I was done with my 3 sets of ramping I couldnt push for many ‘blast’ reps.
I wasn’t sure if I should do one of the following:
a) ramp with lower amounts of weight so I can get more reps, then eventually more weight, on the blast set
or
b) just make sure next time I hit the respective bodypart to outpreform my reps from last week, then if that’s done consistently to up the poundage?
I’ve been sore as hell after doing this type of stuff and I feel like I’m starting to push much harder than I used to but still not sure if those ramp sets should get their poundages increased as well.
Try both options and see what works better.
I go up by about 10% each set.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t go crazy with warmups as you can see. Anyway, the first ramping sets are like “working warmup” sets.
I don’t go with such low reps because volume is still important and leads to a training effect.
3 to 4 sets of 10 is 30 to 40 total reps. In your example above, you have 16 to 20 total reps. Volume is counted as total reps done with over 70 percent of your 1 rep max or tonnage (total weight lifted for total reps). Besides, what do you think when people write 5 x 5, 3 x 8 to 10, etc? I think any decent writer would write 5,3,1 for reps of subsequent sets if that was the case. These rampup sets are not so difficult, but do have a training effect.
I don’t go crazy with this shit with planning as some people on here do. I’m making progress in my current routine, and that’s what counts. I don’t bodybuild anymore, but use 3 to 4 x 8 to 12 in nearly all of my assistance stuff - the bodybuilding METHOD. [/quote]
Yea I guess just from everything I’ve read on here I’ve always seen reps go down as you get closer to your working weight. But like I said now that I think about it I never really see bodybuilders go down in reps like that. For me I guess it would depend on the exercise. When I do flyes (recently added) I may do something like 10x60 then 12x70 and I don’t feel that the 10x60 really hurts my strength on the last set at all. On the other hand if I were to squat 300x10 before doing 350x10 or bench 200x10 before doing 240x10 I definitely think that first set would take away from my final set strength. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing I guess if overall volume will help contribute to muscle gains.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And Pumped:
Judging from your thread on weight loss, I strongly suggest you check out JB’s G-Flux articles. I’ve been dropping weight like crazy with NO caloric restriction![/quote]
Not sure what thread you’re talking about. The “if you’re not lean under 200lb.” one? Lol that wasn’t about me dropping weight…I’m actually gaining now. I am familiar with his work though…I’m guessing you’ve just added a lot of activity? No impairment of lifting recovery?
Pumped: I know it pertained more to body composition changes rather than solely fat loss.
No, I’ve not experienced any detriment in performance or overtraining. I actually feel much better from reducing my overall bodyweight and becoming (shudder) more function (Holy shit, I hate that word!). I couldn’t even do 100 to 400 meter sprints before I built up a cardio base in which I can complete slow and steady runs for 25 to 45 minutes. I had to scale back on my weight training for a few weeks with two full-body sessions as I built up to 5 days of OUTDOOR running or indoor swimming. Now weight training is back to 3 days per week, as I explained several pages ago. But remember, I’m not bodybuilding right now. I still love it, still will attend shows (going to a NY show this summer), and follow it. But I’m done with trying to become enormous.
And like many authors and I have written here in this thread, most people haven’t experienced overtraining; what they’ve experienced is a buildup of systemic fatigue that can be gotten rid of with 5 to 7 days of passive and/or active recovery.
I’m not getting smashed because I’ve worked up to my current training gradually. And besides, 6 to 7 hours of activity really isn’t that much compared what we’re capable of (eg, 15 to 20+ hours per week for athletes).
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t go crazy with warmups as you can see. Anyway, the first ramping sets are like “working warmup” sets.
I don’t go with such low reps because volume is still important and leads to a training effect.
3 to 4 sets of 10 is 30 to 40 total reps. In your example above, you have 16 to 20 total reps. Volume is counted as total reps done with over 70 percent of your 1 rep max or tonnage (total weight lifted for total reps). Besides, what do you think when people write 5 x 5, 3 x 8 to 10, etc? I think any decent writer would write 5,3,1 for reps of subsequent sets if that was the case. These rampup sets are not so difficult, but do have a training effect.
I don’t go crazy with this shit with planning as some people on here do. I’m making progress in my current routine, and that’s what counts. I don’t bodybuild anymore, but use 3 to 4 x 8 to 12 in nearly all of my assistance stuff - the bodybuilding METHOD. [/quote]
Yea I guess just from everything I’ve read on here I’ve always seen reps go down as you get closer to your working weight. But like I said now that I think about it I never really see bodybuilders go down in reps like that. For me I guess it would depend on the exercise. When I do flyes (recently added) I may do something like 10x60 then 12x70 and I don’t feel that the 10x60 really hurts my strength on the last set at all. On the other hand if I were to squat 300x10 before doing 350x10 or bench 200x10 before doing 240x10 I definitely think that first set would take away from my final set strength. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing I guess if overall volume will help contribute to muscle gains. [/quote]
Do you rest long enough?
I’m not that affected by what I do. If I were to use 300 x 10 - 12 in a lift, it would look like this:
Warmup:
125
165
205
Work sets:
245
275
300
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And like many authors and I have written here in this thread, most people haven’t experienced overtraining; what they’ve experienced is a buildup of systemic fatigue that can be gotten rid of with 5 to 7 days of passive and/or active recovery.
I’m not getting smashed because I’ve worked up to my current training gradually. And besides, 6 to 7 hours of activity really isn’t that much compared what we’re capable of (eg, 15 to 20+ hours per week for athletes). [/quote]
Yea I didn’t think you’d be overtraining, just wondered if it hurt recovery in the weight room at all.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Do you rest long enough?
I’m not that affected by what I do. If I were to use 300 x 10 - 12 in a lift, it would look like this:
Warmup:
125
165
205
Work sets:
245
275
300 [/quote]
All 10-12 reps? It’s hard for me to believe doing 275x10 wouldn’t hurt strength at all on the last set with 300. Like I said I could still see it being good for the training effect as long as weights are still increasing but just as far as pure strength on the final set goes.
As for my rest, for me it’s generally maybe 90sec or so earlier on, 2min. is about average, and 2.5-3min before final sets of the big exercises. How about you?
I will say though that it has been awhile before doing ramping all with higher sets for big exercises but as mentioned I did do it with flyes and it seemed fine, but that’s obviously a much easier exercise. Maybe I should try the method you mentioned again though.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And like many authors and I have written here in this thread, most people haven’t experienced overtraining; what they’ve experienced is a buildup of systemic fatigue that can be gotten rid of with 5 to 7 days of passive and/or active recovery.
I’m not getting smashed because I’ve worked up to my current training gradually. And besides, 6 to 7 hours of activity really isn’t that much compared what we’re capable of (eg, 15 to 20+ hours per week for athletes). [/quote]
Yea I didn’t think you’d be overtraining, just wondered if it hurt recovery in the weight room at all.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Do you rest long enough?
I’m not that affected by what I do. If I were to use 300 x 10 - 12 in a lift, it would look like this:
Warmup:
125
165
205
Work sets:
245
275
300 [/quote]
All 10-12 reps? It’s hard for me to believe doing 275x10 wouldn’t hurt strength at all on the last set with 300. Like I said I could still see it being good for the training effect as long as weights are still increasing but just as far as pure strength on the final set goes.
As for my rest, for me it’s generally maybe 90sec or so earlier on, 2min. is about average, and 2.5-3min before final sets of the big exercises. How about you?
I will say though that it has been awhile before doing ramping all with higher sets for big exercises but as mentioned I did do it with flyes and it seemed fine, but that’s obviously a much easier exercise. Maybe I should try the method you mentioned again though. [/quote]
There has been no decrease in my work in the gym. In fact, I feel a whole lot better in the gym. I recover better between sets, I’m more mobile and flexible. Plus I can do some exercises like plyos and Olympic lift variations with better form now because I’m not lugging around so much weight and have less mass in my way in the O lifts.
My warmup sets might be a little lower in reps. All the ramp-up/working warmup sets are for the target rep range. I really think you run the risk of too little volume the other way. But if it works for you, do it.
CT’s article titled Locked and Loaded goes over the flat pyramid (ramping up).
Do you believe that bodybuilding style training
is the best way to generally maximize hypertrophy
and turn your average skinny guy big (of course
with the proper nutrition as a given)?
And of course the type of split for the skinny guy
generally depends on the person and things like
recovery ability if i’m not mistaken.
[quote]mohamedhz wrote:
Do you believe that bodybuilding style training
is the best way to generally maximize hypertrophy
and turn your average skinny guy big (of course
with the proper nutrition as a given)?
And of course the type of split for the skinny guy
generally depends on the person and things like
recovery ability if i’m not mistaken.[/quote]
Who are the most jacked people on earth? Bodybuilders!