The Bodybuilder Bunker

Training Bodybuilding
926

[quote]SSC wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
So lets talk about rest-pause.

IMO, rest pause is the most effective way to gain strength. Anyone else have experience with these?

Yep, I use these quite frequently. Just for comparison’s sake, I’ll compare them to drop sets as an intensity technique. I think that rest-pausees are a great way to buil strength, the best right after low volume / high weight stuff.

I do like them a lot compared to drop sets, because sometimes to me it seems like drop sets are more of a fatiguing technique, compared to rest-pause, which really make me dig deep and grind out some more reps. I like to do these with heavy exercises, but not necessarily the big 3.

Examples include: Rows of any kind, lat pull downs / pull backs, db presses, military presses, and even heavy curls. I’ll occasionally use them for tricep moves, but I’d mostly limit them to close-grip or skullcrushers.[/quote]

Oh, I love rest-pause too, cluster sets in particular. It allows me to lift heavy stuff at a high volume without going to failure. I feel great after a bout of cluster sets. I like drop sets as well because of the insane pump and size gains, but I hate them for making me go beyond failure and feel like an anorexic 15-year old.

I have a few nagging questions about bodybuilding, BTW.

-Who had success using supramaximal methods (negatives, partials, etc.) in getting huge?
-Why don’t I know any bodybuilders who use chains and bands for gaining size?

927

[quote]will to power wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
Pipes06 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
rest pausing squats is a BAD idea.

seconded. They look really painful(not in the good way) and probably put a ton of unwanted stress on the knees, something nobody needs

So 20-rep squats are a bad idea?

Breathing squats and rest pausing are different techniques. [/quote]

Please elaborate. I always thought breathing squats are a form of rest-pause.

928

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
will to power wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
Pipes06 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
rest pausing squats is a BAD idea.

seconded. They look really painful(not in the good way) and probably put a ton of unwanted stress on the knees, something nobody needs

So 20-rep squats are a bad idea?

Breathing squats and rest pausing are different techniques.

Please elaborate. I always thought breathing squats are a form of rest-pause.[/quote]

With rest pausing you’re actually taking the load off you, racking the bar or letting it go then resting for 15 deep breaths, which usually takes 20-45 seconds. With breathing squats you’re always holding the bar on your back and you try to take as few breaths as you can to keep getting the reps in.

Now, I can see why you might think that there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference in the risk, but if you spend some time rest pausing you’ll understand. In the beginning I just took it at Dante’s word, as he knows a damn lot more than I do about the subject and he’s trained a lot of guys and seen a lot. Since spending some time with it I can tell you from the way my body responds, I wouldn’t want to rest pause squats. In my opinion it’s because rest pausing extends the set further than widowmaker sets [due to the greater rest] and you end up with more overall stress on the system. Great for growing your muscles, but you have to assess the risk/reward and it doesn’t look good.

929

Hmm, that seems paradoxical. By resting, you’re actually increasing systemic stress? My experience is the opposite. I feel better whenever I use longer rest periods, but that’s just me. Seeing that you’re coming from Dante’s point of view, I’m kinda getting what you mean.

930

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
Hmm, that seems paradoxical. By resting, you’re actually increasing systemic stress? My experience is the opposite. I feel better whenever I use longer rest periods, but that’s just me. Seeing that you’re coming from Dante’s point of view, I’m kinda getting what you mean.[/quote]

I agree it seems paradoxical, but I think the rest is not enough for your joints to recover, considering that you are going to failure on each leg of the set.

Edit; it kind of goes back to the power output stuff Mike Mentzer use to talk about. Risk of injury being greater when you can produce more force, that sort of thing. And remember it’s not about ‘proper’ rest periods, it’s resting just long enough to grind out a few more reps.

Edit 2; the explanation to why rest pause is more dangerous isn’t Dante’s point of view, to be clear. It’s just my best guess.

931

Well, assuming that you are going to failure each set, which is not always the case, you’re right. Rest-pause is really demanding.

If Mentzer’s power output stuff is true, we’d be seeing a lot of dynamic effort powerlifters on the injured list all the time.

As for your explanation/guess, I still don’t completely understand, so I have to ask. If you say that resting 20-45 seconds isn’t enough for joint recovery, wouldn’t that shorter rest periods are worse and no rest at all is the worst? Sorry. I’m just confused.

932

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
Well, assuming that you are going to failure each set, which is not always the case, you’re right. Rest-pause is really demanding.

If Mentzer’s power output stuff is true, we’d be seeing a lot of dynamic effort powerlifters on the injured list all the time.
[/quote]

Obviously it’s slightly more complicated than just the power output idea, but I think you got what I mean.

[quote]
As for your explanation/guess, I still don’t completely understand, so I have to ask. If you say that resting 20-45 seconds isn’t enough for joint recovery, wouldn’t that shorter rest periods are worse and no rest at all is the worst? Sorry. I’m just confused.[/quote]

You’d be using different weight, reaching different reps etc. So what I meant with the force production thing, you’re resting just enough that you can grind out more reps but not so much that your joints and muscles are back to normal. Again, remember I’m just trying to explain what my body is telling me is true, I haven’t really worried about why before.

If you want to get a feel for it try it out with some like incline bench, on a smythe machine if you don’t have a spotter, and see what difference you feel applying the techniques.

933

yea i like rest pausing, it really adds a good pump. i used them on my arm day for incline hammer curls, felt fucking sweet. they can really be used on most exercises but some of the more common ones it can be applied to are, any type of curl, pushdowns, seated rows.

ive also used rest pauses on deadlifts. i know, not the safest method out there and i dont do it anymore but its very anabolic.

i wouldnt consider 45 seconds to be a restpause either. i think the RP time frame is 15-20 seconds and after that youre reallyy just looking at short rest periods and i also the effectiveness of the RP is lost the longer you wait outside that 15-20 second range.

934

Okay, I have a question. It’s not about a specific technique or training method of bodybuilding, but here’s the situation.

Yesterday, I had a great workout. No rediculous weight was moved, but it went something like this:

Deadlift (Double-Overhand) - 135 X 5, 225 X 5, 315 X 5, 365 X 1, 345 X 3, 315 X 5
Good Morning - 115 X 10, 135 X 10, 155 X 5
Dumbbell Row - 85 X 15, 95 X 13, 95 X 12
Barbell Curl (Rotating inner and outside grip) - Bar X 10, 65 X 6, 85 X 8, 75 X 10
Cable Tower Curls - (Three light sets of high reps)

Anyway, the reason why I’m posting the actual workout is that I woke up this morning, more sore than I’ve ever been in my life. I’m sore in: upper traps, lower traps, delts, lats, lower back, hammies, glutes, and biceps.

Nothing I did in the workout was particularly spectacular, but for some reason this particular morning I’m probably more sore than I’ve ever been in my life. Anyone have any idea why this could be?

935

[quote]SSC wrote:
…Yesterday, I had a great workout. No ridiculous weight was moved, but it went something like this:
…
Nothing I did in the workout was particularly spectacular, but for some reason this particular morning I’m probably more sore than I’ve ever been in my life. Anyone have any idea why this could be?[/quote]

So many variables involved…
Here’s a simple thing to think about: If your rest/sleep or nutrition either the day before or the hours after were less optimal than usual, your body simply might not be recovering from the stress you inflicted on it.

939

i did 275 w/ rest pause 2 rest 15 x 6 “sets” once. that’s not that heavy but heavier than 225 and my joints were ok. i guess if you’re doing >3 plates it would probably be a mf on the joints

940

[quote]bmitch wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Alright guys so I’m in a predicament.

I love rack pulls and I just switched gyms. They DONT HAVE A POWER RACK!?!?!??! Only those squat racks. So what do I do?

And keep this thread going guys come on!

Stand on a box[/quote]

Hmm… maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying but, standing on a box seems like it would be a pull from a deficit, he’s trying to reduce the ROM to do rack pulls.

Maybe setting the bar on two boxes would work, or a plate stack.

941

it depends how big the box is obviously.

942

Well in Rest-Pause, ala Dante, training, you are going to failure 3 times during your set.

AND SQUATTING TO FAILURE IS DANGEROUS.

Thanks for the tips on rack pulls guys.

Yes, Joe, reducing the ROM, not my it larger.

945

[quote]TShaw wrote:
SSC wrote:
…Yesterday, I had a great workout. No ridiculous weight was moved, but it went something like this:
…
Nothing I did in the workout was particularly spectacular, but for some reason this particular morning I’m probably more sore than I’ve ever been in my life. Anyone have any idea why this could be?

So many variables involved…
Here’s a simple thing to think about: If your rest/sleep or nutrition either the day before or the hours after were less optimal than usual, your body simply might not be recovering from the stress you inflicted on it.[/quote]

It would seem like that was the issue, but I ate just as much yesterday, and got a great night of sleep the last two nights. I’m not sure how it factors in, but I’ve been somewhat sick with either a cold or bad allergies the last few days, so I’m wondering if perhaps my delapidated state has something to do with that.

947

Another reason why rest-pausing squats (or back thickness exercises, ala deads) is a bad idea is due to the increased risk of form deterioration and consequently increased risk of lower back injury.

Sure, maybe your quads could handle the stress (it does somewhat depend on the amount of weight you’re using), but your supporting muscles (especially spinal stabilizers) aren’t going to be able to (or at least there is a much increased chance that they won’t).

Like Will said, you have to consider the risk to benefit ratio. You don’t get big and strong in a single workout, so there’s really no reason to put yourself at increased risk of injury just to get a couple more reps in a single workout if they mean you’re more likely to hurt yourself.

Much better to play it a little “safe” (and that is definitely a relative term in this context) and be able to continue progressing from week to week.

Can I ask why? If you’re getting the same number or reps (or possibly 1 more), why rest the 10-15 seconds? Why not just do 12 reps?

949

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Well in Rest-Pause, ala Dante, training, you are going to failure 3 times during your set.

AND SQUATTING TO FAILURE IS DANGEROUS.

Thanks for the tips on rack pulls guys.

Yes, Joe, reducing the ROM, not my it larger.[/quote]

Just remembered, you can buy these and get the same effect.

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?cid=181&m=PD&pid=2453

950

Question for the bunker.

how detrimental do you guys feel it is to get your workout done in an hour or less. I know mine takes maybe 45 minutes to an 1:15. I think the hour or less rule is alittle over dramatized and the main thing is if you’re seeing results keep doing what you’re doing.

951

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Question for the bunker.

how detrimental do you guys feel it is to get your workout done in an hour or less. I know mine takes maybe 45 minutes to an 1:15. I think the hour or less rule is alittle over dramatized and the main thing is if you’re seeing results keep doing what you’re doing.[/quote]

Agreed, my workout normally are under an hour but can last longer depending on how many max effort sets I do as I’ll often rest between 3 and 5 minutes with them. (Note: I train as a powerlifter but I have an appreciation for bodybuilding and like the idea of getting as big and strong as possible)

952

DC training anyone got an views on it ?
mate of mine is looking for something new and this seems a bit “different”