The Bodybuilder Bunker

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Trenchant wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Ew, Double Post. I’ll use this space to start another discussion, and remember, we have noobs reading for info:

The Pros AND Cons of using Deadlifts and Squats. Should you use Deadlifts and Squats? Should you not? Discuss.

Depends on the level of BB’ing you’re at. When starting out and throughout the intermediate stages, these two lifts are essential (unless injury prevents them). Not only will they help build muscle and increase hormones being released, but they help with the neuromuscular issues people often face. By having the ability to “feel” the muscles and how they’re working, you’re learning how your body functions.

But I also think once you reach a higher level of bodybuilding, you should be more careful with these lifts. The higher up the weights go, the higher the risks that come with them. I think that’s why many pro BB’ers avoid them and stick with more concentrated movements like rows or leg presses. With their strength, they can move big weights and possibly ruin their career.

At least these are my thoughts. I’m very interesting in hearing others.[/quote]

I can agree with that, although I still see a lot of high level bodybuilders squatting a ton and deadlifting a lot. lol Everything else I agree with 100%.

@smith machines: I never bash them for certain lifts. They are great and I use them as a tool in my training. Some people prefer them to squat every now and then due to a more stable environment the smith machine provides. The obliques and Abs don’t work as hard and will not cause your waist to “thicken”. I believe that lifting heavy weights with squat/deads will thicken the midsection a bit but not necessarily enough to cause a worry about.

Gerdy

62

As far as squatting and deadlifting, it comes down to comfort and safety. If you feel that you’re at a high risk of injury, obviously you would do leg presses and extensions.

As far as Smith machines, they would be great to focus on a bodypart. As far as a personal opinion, I don’t use them. I feel too restricted and that makes me worry of an injury.

63

One con that comes to mind for squats and deadlifts could be potential overtraining. I know when I first started doing them I went ME every single time I did them. I quickly found out that that just wouldn’t work, but it took a little while to figure it out. Not only that, but I suppose when someone actually starts moving some weight with deads and squats, if they fuck up their technique, they could seriously injure themselves. Hopefully if they’re moving big weight they’ll know the movement though.

As for the Smith, the only two things I ever use it for is shoulder presses and close-grip bench. I really don’t really care to use them at all 99% of the time though.

64

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
I’ve met him and trained in the gym at the same time as him. Mostly just watching in awe instead of training. lol
Gerdy[/quote]

I…Hate…You

I am so jealous, I can’t even begin to explain it.

65

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
How many of you do negatives for body parts other than arms?

I’m really focusing my lats lately and was wondering if it would be logical doing negatives with Rows and Pull-ups.

Of course, I’m going to try them, but I’d like to hear some opinions.[/quote]

I’ve done negatives for shoulders and chest and it’s given me a good amount of isolated soreness. I’ve also done negatives on leg extensions and leg curls and I think if you’re gonna do those exercises, using slow and deliberate negatives is a good idea.

I usually don’t get much lat soreness. I consider my lat and back development to be pretty damn good and ahead of everything else on my body. I’ve got the stretch marks to prove it. I credit this to Weighted Chins, Heavy Barbell Rows, Dumbbell Rows, Machine High Rows, and Heavy Cable Rows with a good stretch. I don’t emphasize the negative on any of these.

But Dante Trudell’s back is bigger than mine and he’s a big proponent of doing rack chins with 8 second negatives.

I think negatives help more when a muscle group is really fast twitch dominant. Arms and Shoulders are fast twitch dominant. Lats, Legs, and Abs not so much.

66

[quote]Rattler wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
I’ve met him and trained in the gym at the same time as him. Mostly just watching in awe instead of training. lol
Gerdy

I…Hate…You

I am so jealous, I can’t even begin to explain it.[/quote]

Ya well…I might have some jealousy if you know the girl in your avatar. lol

Gerdy

67

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Rattler wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
I’ve met him and trained in the gym at the same time as him. Mostly just watching in awe instead of training. lol
Gerdy

I…Hate…You

I am so jealous, I can’t even begin to explain it.

Ya well…I might have some jealousy if you know the girl in your avatar. lol

Gerdy[/quote]

She’s not just a girl!
She’s my dream girl!

drools

68

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Professor X wrote:
In the end, it all comes down to the results you get. If you find they help you gain muscle, then keep doing them.

Definitely agree. I just wanted to hear some opinions because there are over 1300 views of this thread, and I know some newb could learn from the stuff we discuss.

As far as negatives for arms, I’ve definitely seen help with my gains from them. I highly doubt negatives will help my lat width, though.

@Gerdy: No doubt, that works for me too. Too bad you’re a weirdo and negatives don’t help you. Just pokin’ fun.

@Qaash: Will try that.

As far as Gifted! goes, I agree with X that it’s a damn shame this site didn’t put him out more. T-Nation would be even more recognized if they sponsored Brandon Curry or something. Such a shame, but it doesn’t suprise me…

…Especially when I have to make a THREAD in the bodybuilding FORUM to be able to talk about BODYBUILDING.[/quote]

As for the negatives for lats goes Fulmen… well i have employed them fairly regularly as a really easy way to overload at the end of a set, just jump up already fatigued and control descent.

But the thing i noticed, which has changed my approach, is that my arms tend to take over. During the negative it is all bicep until the middle/bottom of the rep where i can make it more lats, and i never saw any amazing growth from them.

Not like when i started reducing weight, and going strict on supinated or neutral close grip chins… they really blew up thenm, and now also while i do DC style rest/pause on 2-3 sets.

Joe

69

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Trenchant wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Ew, Double Post. I’ll use this space to start another discussion, and remember, we have noobs reading for info:

The Pros AND Cons of using Deadlifts and Squats. Should you use Deadlifts and Squats? Should you not? Discuss.

Depends on the level of BB’ing you’re at. When starting out and throughout the intermediate stages, these two lifts are essential (unless injury prevents them). Not only will they help build muscle and increase hormones being released, but they help with the neuromuscular issues people often face. By having the ability to “feel” the muscles and how they’re working, you’re learning how your body functions.

But I also think once you reach a higher level of bodybuilding, you should be more careful with these lifts. The higher up the weights go, the higher the risks that come with them. I think that’s why many pro BB’ers avoid them and stick with more concentrated movements like rows or leg presses. With their strength, they can move big weights and possibly ruin their career.

At least these are my thoughts. I’m very interesting in hearing others.

I can agree with that, although I still see a lot of high level bodybuilders squatting a ton and deadlifting a lot. lol Everything else I agree with 100%.

@smith machines: I never bash them for certain lifts. They are great and I use them as a tool in my training. Some people prefer them to squat every now and then due to a more stable environment the smith machine provides. The obliques and Abs don’t work as hard and will not cause your waist to “thicken”. I believe that lifting heavy weights with squat/deads will thicken the midsection a bit but not necessarily enough to cause a worry about.

Gerdy[/quote]

I think there is definitely room for both squat and DL, they are different enough to not overload, ubnless done back to back. And if you stick the rac pulls in with back and deep squat in legs… thats good mass stuff right there.

I have met a few older, non-competing (enormous) bodybuilders that didnt DL or Squat due to spinal issues picked up over their 30-40 years of training.
Another competing guy used to do smith squats after leg ext and leg press, to concentrate on the quads more than the stabilisers. It was a brutal way to train, and i got some good growth from it.

As for other smith exercises, well i sometimes do and sometimes dont… depends if i want a change of pace is all. I tend to do close grip flat or inc bench work on a smith, and i like the seated overhead barbell press on a smith too, juist so as to take advantage of the fact i can fail on the negative.

Joe

70

Negatives: I’m just not a big fan. I find rotating exercise sequences and rep ranges far more effective.

As far as deadlifts and squats. I don’t do full deads, I only do the top 1/3 of the deadlift and I do it on back day. Squats… ass to heels and I GENERALLY prefer narrow stances, but I also rotate wider stances with my feet flared out.

Here’s a question for you all: does anyone else find that their traps and/or calves get better stimulated when contractions are held for a second or two?

71

in the DL and Squat or in the shrug and calf raise?

If the latter, i do slow and steady, then fast burns + rest/pause upto 3 times, for both traps and calves.

My calves are one of my best BP’s.

Joe

72

My arms and shoulders have always been stronger than my torso, so the desire of them to ‘take over’ certain movements has always been a concern. As to my back work, I try to limit the ROM where the biceps work, and usually do my chins at the end of my back session as a sort of finisher. I never worry about reps, or added weight, just get a good squeeze in the back (eliminating the bicep portion), and milkiing a nice slow decent (avoiding a full stretch which I believe removes muscular stress)

S

73

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
Negatives: I’m just not a big fan. I find rotating exercise sequences and rep ranges far more effective.

As far as deadlifts and squats. I don’t do full deads, I only do the top 1/3 of the deadlift and I do it on back day. Squats… ass to heels and I GENERALLY prefer narrow stances, but I also rotate wider stances with my feet flared out.

Here’s a question for you all: does anyone else find that their traps and/or calves get better stimulated when contractions are held for a second or two?[/quote]

Absolutely!! Holding the peak contraction on shrugs and calf-raises is key. Those movements are perfect for that technique and the results are proof.

74

[quote]studgorilla wrote:
Absolutely!! Holding the peak contraction on shrugs and calf-raises is key. Those movements are perfect for that technique and the results are proof. [/quote]

Agreed, although I only hold it for a second or so.
My calves pretty much grow only when the rest of me fills out.

75

Hello Bunkerer…ers

I have a gasp bodybuilding question !
I only started lifting weights 1 year ago, so by no means am i ready to compete locally yet, but thats what i hopefully aim for.
I asked CT how long should one bulk for, and he said it depends on a variety of factors… anyone have any other answer ??
It IS my 1st one, i did strength for 8 months the 1st 4 months were a write off :slight_smile:
So as it is my 1st one should i just keep going for a while or is there some setup for guageing when to go and stop etc.

Cheers

76

Negatives -

I prefer lowering weight under control and exploding the concentric movement works better than negatives.

I think the extreme stretching ala DC is far more effective than negatives as well.

Smith Machines -

If it is good enough for the freaks doing DC - it is good enough for me. I just ordered one from NYBB.

On Wolf -

I had a conversation with Mark Dugdale and he said that he thought that the powers that be were going to start trending back to aesthetics over mass. That means smaller guts, and more taper.

Wolf is going to be the next Arnold, or at the least, the next Dorian IMO.

77

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
studgorilla wrote:
Absolutely!! Holding the peak contraction on shrugs and calf-raises is key. Those movements are perfect for that technique and the results are proof.

Agreed, although I only hold it for a second or so.
My calves pretty much grow only when the rest of me fills out.[/quote]

Try it the DC way - explode the concentric, take 5 seconds to lower,and hold the stretch for 15 seconds.

Nothing short of brutal.

78

[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Hello Bunkerer…ers

I have a gasp bodybuilding question !
I only started lifting weights 1 year ago, so by no means am i ready to compete locally yet, but thats what i hopefully aim for.
I asked CT how long should one bulk for, and he said it depends on a variety of factors… anyone have any other answer ??
It IS my 1st one, i did strength for 8 months the 1st 4 months were a write off :slight_smile:
So as it is my 1st one should i just keep going for a while or is there some setup for guageing when to go and stop etc.

Cheers[/quote]

keep trying to get big until you feel like you need to start dieting down to compete in a show you choose. lol

I know people who competed within their first year of weights.
It’s your call. When you think your ready to compete pick a date and then figure out when you should start dieting. Then bulk until your diet.

Gerdy

79

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Negatives -

I prefer lowering weight under control and exploding the concentric movement works better than negatives.

I think the extreme stretching ala DC is far more effective than negatives as well.

Smith Machines -

If it is good enough for the freaks doing DC - it is good enough for me. I just ordered one from NYBB.

On Wolf -

I had a conversation with Mark Dugdale and he said that he thought that the powers that be were going to start trending back to aesthetics over mass. That means smaller guts, and more taper.

Wolf is going to be the next Arnold, or at the least, the next Dorian IMO.

[/quote]

I see wolf being the only guy capable in the pro ranks right now to win an olympia and hold the title for several years. I think that phil heath (unless he shocks us all) is going to join flex, dex, levrone, ray, and the others in people who will never win an O. I don’t know what to say about victor as his injury is very serious. He may never be able to get back to Mr.O shape. I hope he does so we can see Wolf, Vic, Dex, Heath, etc all gunning for the top spot!

Gerdy

80

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Negatives -

I prefer lowering weight under control and exploding the concentric movement works better than negatives.

I think the extreme stretching ala DC is far more effective than negatives as well.
[/quote]

I’ve been doing calf raises DC style, How would I translate that on pull-ups, just hold the bottom stretch position for x amount of time?