[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
Ok, I have something I’d like to hear some opinions about.
What do you guys think about having an “arm day” or a “shoulder day?”
[/quote]
Have both. In fact it’s my time to hit Shoulders/Abs in a few minutes.
Unnecessary until you are very advanced and are using lots of volume and/or (but usually and) shit heavy weight that your recovery ability simply no longer allows you work it 2+ times a week.
I stated earlier and will state again, I think the most splitting a relatively young trainee should do is push/pull legs.
At their recovery ability and their probably relatively small weights, there is simply no reason to give up an extra day of squatting/benching/rowing to exclusively hit delts or arms.
Notice I didn’t say don’t work delts and arms, I just don’t think they need/deserve an entire day until you are really using shit heavy weights.
These high school guys and guys who’ve been training 2-3 years simply don’t need a 5 way split and I don’t think its optimal for progress, size or strength.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Bellicus wrote:
I was going to ask “Why the fuck are you here” as sarcasm and remembered you are a powerlifter. Still glad to have ya, though.
Lol. I enjoy hanging out with serious lifters, powerlifting or otherwise. I learned a lot from the bb’ers here years ago, and I think it’s easy to learn more from them, as well as the serious bb’ers at my gym. Picked up a lot of good tricks and stuff I’ve used, and learned stuff from training other people too. I do it for love of the game, so to speak.
That’s why I’d like to hang out in this thread, if ya’ll will have me–I like hardcore people. Not, mind you, people posing as hardcore. I mean dedicated serious people who want to be the best. I don’t care what their specific goal is. Kinda like the early days when oly, PL, and bb guys would all hang and train together. You learn a lot. I’m a firm believer in cross-pollination of ideas and methods. All the best coaches do it, and all the best scientists do it, so that’s good enough for me to do it.
Besides, I like to look good. I may want to squat and pull a ton (literally) more than I want to get a perfect v-taper, but I’m not afraid to admit that I do actually want to look like an old school bodybuilder at times. It’s just not my #1 priority. I’ve picked up a lot of things I think others could learn from whether they’re bb’ers or not, even though I’m still “only” a powerlifting guy. Still, I think aspiring to look like Arnold is a worthy goal. 
Eventually I may even learn to love beach training one day.[/quote]
Agreed. Good times.
IMHO Arm days are fine if you’ve got a base built. It’s all about what works. Strongman competitors will sometimes have a shoulder day as well, since a lot of their stuff deals with overhead strength. I’m only against it for newbs, as I mentioned above. Course, that being said, I’d be more amenable to a “shoulder” day for a newb than an arm day, b/c working shoulders often causes you to train arms as well (push presses, etc).
Besides, you can’t ever be too wide or have enough overhead strength. It also gives you another opportunity to do pressing work without bench pattern overload.
I meant push/pull/legs**
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Xeneize wrote:
This is seriously the best damn thread on the entire site. If I only have time to read one thread a day, this is it. It just feels like testosterone.
I’m learning so much from your discussions. Great stuff.
One question, since grip and forearm work seems to be one of the current topics:
How much strongman-type stuff do you guys incorporate, as in farmer’s walks, sleds, plate pinching and generally carrying heavy shit around?
ive never done any of that stuff. you could go for it but i think youd get more bang for your buck doing heavy movements where you need to suspend the bar. look at it like this, fat guys always have huge calves why? because theyre constantly suporting a heavy load. so i think it would make sense that if you wanted to make your forearms big you should make them support a very heavy weight as well.
I agree, heavy support exercises are great for grip/forearm work. But, what do you think most of the “strongman exercises” are? They’re supporting/holding onto heavy weights. Farmers walks are pretty much the epitome of that. Just pick up as heavy a pair of dumbbells as possible and walk around with them until your grip fails (also a pretty good calf exercise btw).
I’ve done a fair amount of strongman type exercises in the past and will say that they are tremendous for building grip strength. They are also good for building size, though honestly I think that doing some direct work as well (wrist curls, reverse BB curls, etc…) is also a good idea if maximal size is your goal.
right, but with things like deadlifts, RDLs, rack pulls etc you get the same effect on the forearms as you would with the strongman type exercises but youre also targeting other muscles like the whole back and hams. thats why i said i think youd get more bang for your buck out of those versus the strongman.
[/quote]
Fair enough. And yeah, those exercises are great grip/forearm builders as well. You are generally targeting other things with strongman exercises as well though, just like deads, RDLs, rack pulls, and other heavy traditional exercises where your grip must support heavy weight. Really they’re both great. And doing both can add some variety to your routines.
Besides, this thread reminds me of the atmosphere had 3-5 years ago, when I finally joined the forums (I’d been reading it before for a few years). I miss that, and I’d be more than happy to help cultivate it again. This thread is awesome.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I am not assuming, I am asking about these challenges. Rarely do people ask, ‘any injuries or issues?’ when responding to questions. So, there seems to be an unspoken assumption. I am questioning that as well.
I am talking about injuries/illnesses that are long term and their effect on how one trains today. Whether it is bad knees so leg press works better than squats or whatever.
[/quote]
I think often times injuries are used as excuses. A very good friend of mine came back from 2 shoulder surgeries and a pec tear. He still does all the movements he did before the injuries. Still, should probably ask those questions more often to others. You make a good point.
For my own life, I’ve been blessed and have not dealt with anything that kept me out of the gym for more than a month or so. I did deal with some very serious chronic nerve impingement/tendonitis/osis/whatever that kept me from benching heavy (> 75% or so) in any form for about 1.5 years.
As in, I couldn’t physically grip the bar and had shooting pain when I did. It is one big reason my bench is godawful pathetic. But that’s been solved (crosses fingers) and I’ll get my bench up soon. Until then I’m not talking about it . Nothing like traumatic knee injuries or anything.
[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
Ok, I have something I’d like to hear some opinions about.
What do you guys think about having an “arm day” or a “shoulder day?”
[/quote]
What do we think? That is how I’ve trained for years. Shoulder night was yesterday.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
I am not assuming, I am asking about these challenges. Rarely do people ask, ‘any injuries or issues?’ when responding to questions. So, there seems to be an unspoken assumption. I am questioning that as well.
I am talking about injuries/illnesses that are long term and their effect on how one trains today. Whether it is bad knees so leg press works better than squats or whatever.
I think often times injuries are used as excuses. A very good friend of mine came back from 2 shoulder surgeries and a pec tear. He still does all the movements he did before the injuries. Still, should probably ask those questions more often to others. You make a good point.
For my own life, I’ve been blessed and have not dealt with anything that kept me out of the gym for more than a month or so. I did deal with some very serious chronic nerve impingement/tendonitis/osis/whatever that kept me from benching heavy (> 75% or so) in any form for about 1.5 years.
As in, I couldn’t physically grip the bar and had shooting pain when I did. It is one big reason my bench is godawful pathetic. But that’s been solved (crosses fingers) and I’ll get my bench up soon. Until then I’m not talking about it . Nothing like traumatic knee injuries or anything. [/quote]
I agree some injuries are just excuses. I hope your nerve issue is now past tense.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
Ok, I have something I’d like to hear some opinions about.
What do you guys think about having an “arm day” or a “shoulder day?”
What do we think? That is how I’ve trained for years. Shoulder night was yesterday.[/quote]
I will admit for the 9 months of training up till 1 month ago, i trained the Waterbury way ^^
All compound lifts, hardly no isolation excercises.
In fact i still dislike these “beach” people who do arms 7 days a week and still look the same since i joined.
Only when i trained the CT way have arm days come into my programs and they have shot up !
So maybe train for 2-3 months with NO specific arm days then go arm days for 3 months ?
Not to sure though still all new to this
[quote]Corkonian wrote:
So maybe train for 2-3 months with NO specific arm days then go arm days for 3 months ?
Not to sure though still all new to this :)[/quote]
If your arms “shot up” when you started doing isolation movements for them, that means they are working for you.
Why fix what isn’t broken? You don’t owe CW anything - don’t bother with his routine if it isn’t giving you the results you want. Besides, no one says you have to be one of those “beach” people who do nothing BUT arms and see little results.
Once again: if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it!
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Unnecessary until you are very advanced and are using lots of volume and/or (but usually and) shit heavy weight that your recovery ability simply no longer allows you work it 2+ times a week.
I stated earlier and will state again, I think the most splitting a relatively young trainee should do is push/pull legs.
At their recovery ability and their probably relatively small weights, there is simply no reason to give up an extra day of squatting/benching/rowing to exclusively hit delts or arms.
Notice I didn’t say don’t work delts and arms, I just don’t think they need/deserve an entire day until you are really using shit heavy weights.
These high school guys and guys who’ve been training 2-3 years simply don’t need a 5 way split and I don’t think its optimal for progress, size or strength.[/quote]
I agree for the most part but after 2-3 I’m sure they’d be fine on a bodypart split provided their goal was hypertrophy.
Okay
Here’s a doosy: Posterior delt, train it with shoulder or back? I mean isolation movements for it of course. I personally, (If military didn’t dictate my training) would have a shoulders and back day in which I would include either bent-over lateral raises or reverse pec-dec.
So what do the guys over 200 pounds do for their posterior delt? (Pfft Prof X)
Thanks
[quote]GrabAKimber wrote:
Okay
Here’s a doosy: Posterior delt, train it with shoulder or back? I mean isolation movements for it of course. I personally, (If military didn’t dictate my training) would have a shoulders and back day in which I would include either bent-over lateral raises or reverse pec-dec.
So what do the guys over 200 pounds do for their posterior delt? (Pfft Prof X)
Thanks[/quote]
Matter of preference but I throw it in with shoulders because I’m fried after back.
alright so i just got back from leg day and tried out the calf exercise i was talking about where instead of going for reps you just hold the weight in the very top and very bottom stretch posistion. ive gotta say, while its too early to tell for sure i think i really like it. i did 3 sets (1 standing and 2 seated to try other things) and they feel pretty beat. a couple things i noticed:
it was hard to maintain grip on the bottom posistion because my shoes kept slipping off (dont know why i didnt take them off…but w/e) i tried to hold it as long as i could though before my grip got too fucked up. this happened on both the standing one and the seated.
id also reccomend the standing over the seated because it can be very hard to get that weight back into start posistion after letting it tear up your calves in the bottom stretch. i barely got it up after the first set and wanted to see what happen if i couldnt get it up at all on the second set and i didnt realize how far down the thing actually goes because after i took one foot out my other was practically vertical. i managed to get out of it and nearly tip over the damn thing in the process.
like i said its still too early to tell how effective this method is. my calves are definately beat havent felt this way since i stopped working out at home and started hitting my calves correctly. could it just be the effects of a new type of stimulus? maybe, but at least theres soreness and thats a good sign.
i plan on taking pictures. taking a set of befores and then again after 4 months, or if i see growth development before then.
id love to see a couple other people with sucky calves try this out too. (mainly cause i think itd be cool if something i thought of actually worked)
[quote]GrabAKimber wrote:
Okay
Here’s a doosy: Posterior delt, train it with shoulder or back? I mean isolation movements for it of course. I personally, (If military didn’t dictate my training) would have a shoulders and back day in which I would include either bent-over lateral raises or reverse pec-dec.
So what do the guys over 200 pounds do for their posterior delt? (Pfft Prof X)
Thanks[/quote]
Hey I barely make your cutoff! lol
The *anterior delt gets hit with most of my back exercises so I usually leave it alone there and train it with shoulders.
I do the bent-over lateral raises and reverse pec deck. Also changing the angle at which you raise your arm when doing upright rows will also hit the rear delt.
Gerdy
Edit: FCK I meant posterior delt…
ok so maybe i just have my anatomy fucked up, i couldnt find for certain any pics of the ant. delt on google so ill go ahead and say it but do any of you feel your anterior delt getting worked on pushdowns? i dont hang out with any other lifters so this pretty much the only place i can discuss BBing and techniques, etc. but yea i was just wondering if any of you guys get that too because i also feel it in my lower abs from pushdowns and i feel the “bottom ab” being worked when i do leg curls too.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ok so maybe i just have my anatomy fucked up, i couldnt find for certain any pics of the ant. delt on google so ill go ahead and say it but do any of you feel your anterior delt getting worked on pushdowns? i dont hang out with any other lifters so this pretty much the only place i can discuss BBing and techniques, etc. but yea i was just wondering if any of you guys get that too because i also feel it in my lower abs from pushdowns and i feel the “bottom ab” being worked when i do leg curls too.[/quote]
I would lower the weight a little in the pushdowns to make sure its just your triceps working. Do you think that could fix it?
[quote]GrabAKimber wrote:
Okay
Here’s a doosy: Posterior delt, train it with shoulder or back? I mean isolation movements for it of course. I personally, (If military didn’t dictate my training) would have a shoulders and back day in which I would include either bent-over lateral raises or reverse pec-dec.
So what do the guys over 200 pounds do for their posterior delt? (Pfft Prof X)
Thanks[/quote]
What about us short fuckers?