This is seriously the best damn thread on the entire site. If I only have time to read one thread a day, this is it. It just feels like testosterone.
I’m learning so much from your discussions. Great stuff.
One question, since grip and forearm work seems to be one of the current topics:
How much strongman-type stuff do you guys incorporate, as in farmer’s walks, sleds, plate pinching and generally carrying heavy shit around?
[quote]Lowery38595 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Some will call me crazy but I’ve built some strong forearms and several of my old teammates have built some big forearms doing this for baseball. Check it out…
Get a small bucket 5 gal preferrably. Fill it with rice. Stick your hand down into the rice about half way up your forearm. Grip the rice as hard as you can and twist your wrist one direction, relax hand, then grip again and twist wrist the other direction. Some college baseball guru’s taught me that one. If you do it for a few mins with each arm you will get an incredible pump.
Similar exercises have been around for a long time in the Martial Arts community.
Here’s another one.
You’ll either need a bath tub/sink, large bucket, or nice weather (to be outside) and a towel.
Wet the towel (a small to medium sized hand towel would be a good place to start) completely and hold the towel by one corner with one hand. Now proceed to bunch the towel up into the hand. Every time you bunch more of the towel into the hand, you squeeze all of the water out of it. By the time you get the whole towel bunched up into your hand and squeeze all of the water out of the towel you will have a tremendous pump in your forearm/hand.
Repeat with the other hand/arm.
I got this exercise from John Brookfield.
Also set a bench where you can hang from a pull up bar and have your feet barely on the bench. Place two towels on the pull up bar and grip the towels with your feet on the bench placing all the dead weight on your grip with the towels. If you let go w/out setting your feet down first you will bust your ass on the ground so there is motivation right there.
Gerdy
Cool. Sounds similar to towel pull-ups.
I just finished the exercise where you scrunch of the towel to soak the water out. I am now popeye. You should write an article on it called the 8 week forearm blitzkrieg.
[/quote]
Adding these 2 tomorrow. But i dont get the 3rd one i put a bench under my feet… and put 2 towels where the pull up bars are hang on … how do i place all the dead weight on my forarms ??
Cheers Sento
[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Lowery38595 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Some will call me crazy but I’ve built some strong forearms and several of my old teammates have built some big forearms doing this for baseball. Check it out…
Get a small bucket 5 gal preferrably. Fill it with rice. Stick your hand down into the rice about half way up your forearm. Grip the rice as hard as you can and twist your wrist one direction, relax hand, then grip again and twist wrist the other direction. Some college baseball guru’s taught me that one. If you do it for a few mins with each arm you will get an incredible pump.
Similar exercises have been around for a long time in the Martial Arts community.
Here’s another one.
You’ll either need a bath tub/sink, large bucket, or nice weather (to be outside) and a towel.
Wet the towel (a small to medium sized hand towel would be a good place to start) completely and hold the towel by one corner with one hand. Now proceed to bunch the towel up into the hand. Every time you bunch more of the towel into the hand, you squeeze all of the water out of it. By the time you get the whole towel bunched up into your hand and squeeze all of the water out of the towel you will have a tremendous pump in your forearm/hand.
Repeat with the other hand/arm.
I got this exercise from John Brookfield.
Also set a bench where you can hang from a pull up bar and have your feet barely on the bench. Place two towels on the pull up bar and grip the towels with your feet on the bench placing all the dead weight on your grip with the towels. If you let go w/out setting your feet down first you will bust your ass on the ground so there is motivation right there.
Gerdy
Cool. Sounds similar to towel pull-ups.
I just finished the exercise where you scrunch of the towel to soak the water out. I am now popeye. You should write an article on it called the 8 week forearm blitzkrieg.
Adding these 2 tomorrow. But i dont get the 3rd one i put a bench under my feet… and put 2 towels where the pull up bars are hang on … how do i place all the dead weight on my forarms ??
Cheers Sento
[/quote]
Wrap the towels around the bar so that you can grip it and it will hold you up. Once you do this place your feet on a bench in front of you a couple feet so that when you hang all of your weight will be going with gravity. lol
If you do it right you should look like you are hanging from two ropes from a pull up bar with your body making an obtuse angle feet in front and slightly down. If you just let go and fell during the exercise you would end up with your ass on the ground and heels on a bench with legs extended out in front of you.
let’s see…okay…sit on the floor and extend your legs straight out. place your heels on the bench. see the angle you make? now imagine grabbing the towels and pulling yourself up to the pull up bar while keeping your heels on the bench?
That help at all, I just realized how hard it is to describe that exercise. lol
Gerdy
Forearms have always been my weak spot, I’ll try that towel trick to see if it works over the next few months. Calves have always been a strong point (17.5 inches, never train them)
Looking back over my training I’ve always gotten the best results going to failure, and have recently gone back to doing so with good results. However I dont know that I would recommend going to failure, especially with weights over 85% of your 1rm, in the older lifter or in the lifters prone to injuries.
If you are a younger guy or injury free though, failure does seem to be the best way to go.
Alright new topic…
Say Dennis Wolf called you and asked you to give him advice on develeoping his lower lats. lol
What exercises and how would you execute them to give you the best results in overall lower lat development.
I have fairly wide upper lats but with my height my lower lats make me look less wide. What is everybody’s opinion on fixing the tiny lower lat syndrome? lol
Gerdy
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
About a year back I got suckered into the “do a bunch of sets but stop short of failure” bandwagon, and the results sucked.
So guys what do you think of training to “failure”, how far do you take your sets?
[/quote]
I take them just short of failure. In other words, if I am on an HS machine, I am taking it all of the way to failure because I don’t have to worry about the weight falling on me. If I am doing a squat movement, obviously I am going to take it short of failure so that I don’t lose my life under 400+lbs. Obviously this does not apply to the first few sets of an exercise because most of that is warm up. I usually take those sets to about 10 reps (or more if I feel it). I take the last set at the greatest weight all of the way to failure or as close as I can safely get.
Ya think i get it now, will try tomorrow so too.
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
About a year back I got suckered into the “do a bunch of sets but stop short of failure” bandwagon, and the results sucked.
So guys what do you think of training to “failure”, how far do you take your sets?
[/quote]
I dunno if I qualify as ‘really big’ but I like to think I’ve made a lot of progress. I avoid failure in all my exercises for the most part. I do fail on my ME work. Hopefully not every time because that would be bad, but I fail pretty regularly. Basically I work up in weight through all my sets to a few all-out efforts, then maybe a down set. This way I can get volume in there as well. I stop just short of failure, to where I stall but come through or where I’ve got probably 1 in the tank.
example, db rows (in an upper/lower split, so not a ‘back day’)
80x6, 100x6, 110x6, 120x6, 130x6, 140x6, 150 2-3x6, 130x6
and then at least 4 more sets of a different back exercise, but I’ve used up to 8 more on occasion.
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
…Uh, also, please don’t respond unless you’re really big. No offense but I’d like this to be the one thread where the guys dispensing advice are qualified to do so.[/quote]
What a fucking Twat thing to say… No Offence… (Spelt correctly)
I bet i am “big” enough to knock your teeth out for ya! No Offence.
Let me retort in a more civilised manner, i apologise for my earlier outburst, Twat. No Offence.
I am at least 185lbs (stable 180lb) 5’8" up from 155lbs 18 months ago. I have 16" arms from 14.5" over that time.
(I was also ill for 6 months so i didnt eat or train and went down to 145lbs for 6 months until Aug 07 - Muscle memory training is an awe inspiring change;)).
I have been training seriously for about 10 years, but dedicated my life to it only recently actually, the last year i have quit smoking, drinking too much, drugs and partying. But still serious for 10.
I feel more than qualfied, not only because i AM qualified, but because i have had alot of experience, relevant experience. If i was a 6’ meso… i am sure i’d be 220lbs+ and +18" arms… even if i was a fat fucker, you would listen more intently?! lmao!
But still… i work hard and get results. If someone won’t listen to me simply on the size of my arms or their opinion as to what MY results have been(!), then it really is their loss!
I can tell you this, while you say - “…The only trainees who are qualified to answer a question of method are the really big ones…”
Alot of seasoned vets and DECENT trainers will advise you that going upto the biggest guy in the gym and asking what he does food and iron wise, is NOT gonna do jack for you.
Everyone is different, everyone responds different and grows different. The guy with 18" arms may have just had to do rows and presses 3-4 x a week for 2 years to get there… but i will have to train for many many years to get upto 18" arms, using a wide range of techniques and trial and error.
Now genetically, who is better? Yup. And who do you think is likely to have a lot more information on “growing” arms? Really? Twat.
I am NOT knocking any guys (who are bigger than me! lol) who have put in the years, and tears and got to the BIG stage, it is where i am going too, i am attacking this crappy, blanket, gross generalisation that is fundamentally wrong. So calm down Mr Professor, i can feel you watching this one… 
Joe
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
…Uh, also, please don’t respond unless you’re really big. No offense but I’d like this to be the one thread where the guys dispensing advice are qualified to do so.
What a fucking Twat thing to say… No Offence… (Spelt correctly)
I bet i am “big” enough to knock your teeth out for ya! No Offence.
Let me retort in a more civilised manner, i apologise for my earlier outburst, Twat. No Offence.
I am at least 185lbs (stable 180lb) 5’8" up from 155lbs 18 months ago. I have 16" arms from 14.5" over that time.
(I was also ill for 6 months so i didnt eat or train and went down to 145lbs for 6 months until Aug 07 - Muscle memory training is an awe inspiring change;)).
I have been training seriously for about 10 years, but dedicated my life to it only recently actually, the last year i have quit smoking, drinking too much, drugs and partying. But still serious for 10.
I feel more than qualfied, not only because i AM qualified, but because i have had alot of experience, relevant experience. If i was a 6’ meso… i am sure i’d be 220lbs+ and +18" arms… even if i was a fat fucker, you would listen more intently?! lmao!
But still… i work hard and get results. If someone won’t listen to me simply on the size of my arms or their opinion as to what MY results have been(!), then it really is their loss!
I can tell you this, while you say - “…The only trainees who are qualified to answer a question of method are the really big ones…”
Alot of seasoned vets and DECENT trainers will advise you that going upto the biggest guy in the gym and asking what he does food and iron wise, is NOT gonna do jack for you.
Everyone is different, everyone responds different and grows different. The guy with 18" arms may have just had to do rows and presses 3-4 x a week for 2 years to get there… but i will have to train for many many years to get upto 18" arms, using a wide range of techniques and trial and error.
Now genetically, who is better? Yup. And who do you think is likely to have a lot more information on “growing” arms? Really? Twat.
I am NOT knocking any guys (who are bigger than me! lol) who have put in the years, and tears and got to the BIG stage, it is where i am going too, i am attacking this crappy, blanket, gross generalisation that is fundamentally wrong. So calm down Mr Professor, i can feel you watching this one…
Joe[/quote]
Calm down a little bit, man. I think he was just implying that he doesn’t want to spoil the thread with people who have sub-15" arms trying dole out advice.
[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Alright new topic…
Say Dennis Wolf called you and asked you to give him advice on develeoping his lower lats. lol
What exercises and how would you execute them to give you the best results in overall lower lat development.
I have fairly wide upper lats but with my height my lower lats make me look less wide. What is everybody’s opinion on fixing the tiny lower lat syndrome? lol
Gerdy[/quote]
I’d have to tell him he must have the wrong number.
[quote]Xeneize wrote:
This is seriously the best damn thread on the entire site. If I only have time to read one thread a day, this is it. It just feels like testosterone.
I’m learning so much from your discussions. Great stuff.
One question, since grip and forearm work seems to be one of the current topics:
How much strongman-type stuff do you guys incorporate, as in farmer’s walks, sleds, plate pinching and generally carrying heavy shit around?[/quote]
ive never done any of that stuff. you could go for it but i think youd get more bang for your buck doing heavy movements where you need to suspend the bar. look at it like this, fat guys always have huge calves why? because theyre constantly suporting a heavy load. so i think it would make sense that if you wanted to make your forearms big you should make them support a very heavy weight as well.
this actually brings me to a question of calf training what have you guys done? has anyone tried taking a really heavy weight and just holding it in the top peak and then at the bottom stretch versus the common reps to failure.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
this actually brings me to a question of calf training what have you guys done? has anyone tried taking a really heavy weight and just holding it in the top peak and then at the bottom stretch versus the common reps to failure.[/quote]
I’ve tried a number of different exercises, rep schemes and what not for my calves. My calves have always been a decent size but I, like everyone else, want them bigger. And you know what seems to be making them grow right now. Jumping rope.
I started jumping rope a while ago to try and strip off some fat and low and behold, I think my calves are reaping the most benefit.
I do like the idea of just loading up a bunch of weight and holding it in the top and bottom position though. I’ll have to give that a shot.
I just wanted to say hooray because I’m back.
As for calves, I started doing them 3-4 times a week just 3x25 standing, weighted.
That finally started getting my calves to grow.
I’ve been doing them the DC way for a week now, and it definitely hurts, but too soon to say how its working, given all the rave reviews and the level of pain they put through though, I’d say they’ll probably work.
Here’s a question:
Should someone just starting out do direct arm work?
I’m in the Dave Tate school on this: “You can’t flex bone.” If you don’t have enough mass to flex, there is no point to direct work on tertiary muscle groups.
[quote]dre wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
this actually brings me to a question of calf training what have you guys done? has anyone tried taking a really heavy weight and just holding it in the top peak and then at the bottom stretch versus the common reps to failure.
I’ve tried a number of different exercises, rep schemes and what not for my calves. My calves have always been a decent size but I, like everyone else, want them bigger. And you know what seems to be making them grow right now. Jumping rope.
I started jumping rope a while ago to try and strip off some fat and low and behold, I think my calves are reaping the most benefit.
I do like the idea of just loading up a bunch of weight and holding it in the top and bottom position though. I’ll have to give that a shot.[/quote]
yeah im trying it out today since im doing legs, i figure ill do some high reps for the last set just to get some blood flowing there.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Xeneize wrote:
This is seriously the best damn thread on the entire site. If I only have time to read one thread a day, this is it. It just feels like testosterone.
I’m learning so much from your discussions. Great stuff.
One question, since grip and forearm work seems to be one of the current topics:
How much strongman-type stuff do you guys incorporate, as in farmer’s walks, sleds, plate pinching and generally carrying heavy shit around?
ive never done any of that stuff. you could go for it but i think youd get more bang for your buck doing heavy movements where you need to suspend the bar. look at it like this, fat guys always have huge calves why? because theyre constantly suporting a heavy load. so i think it would make sense that if you wanted to make your forearms big you should make them support a very heavy weight as well.
[/quote]
I agree, heavy support exercises are great for grip/forearm work. But, what do you think most of the “strongman exercises” are? They’re supporting/holding onto heavy weights. Farmers walks are pretty much the epitome of that. Just pick up as heavy a pair of dumbbells as possible and walk around with them until your grip fails (also a pretty good calf exercise btw).
I’ve done a fair amount of strongman type exercises in the past and will say that they are tremendous for building grip strength. They are also good for building size, though honestly I think that doing some direct work as well (wrist curls, reverse BB curls, etc…) is also a good idea if maximal size is your goal.
[quote]SSC wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
…Uh, also, please don’t respond unless you’re really big. No offense but I’d like this to be the one thread where the guys dispensing advice are qualified to do so.
What a fucking Twat thing to say… No Offence… (Spelt correctly)
I bet i am “big” enough to knock your teeth out for ya! No Offence.
Let me retort in a more civilised manner, i apologise for my earlier outburst, Twat. No Offence.
I am at least 185lbs (stable 180lb) 5’8" up from 155lbs 18 months ago. I have 16" arms from 14.5" over that time.
(I was also ill for 6 months so i didnt eat or train and went down to 145lbs for 6 months until Aug 07 - Muscle memory training is an awe inspiring change;)).
I have been training seriously for about 10 years, but dedicated my life to it only recently actually, the last year i have quit smoking, drinking too much, drugs and partying. But still serious for 10.
I feel more than qualfied, not only because i AM qualified, but because i have had alot of experience, relevant experience. If i was a 6’ meso… i am sure i’d be 220lbs+ and +18" arms… even if i was a fat fucker, you would listen more intently?! lmao!
But still… i work hard and get results. If someone won’t listen to me simply on the size of my arms or their opinion as to what MY results have been(!), then it really is their loss!
I can tell you this, while you say - “…The only trainees who are qualified to answer a question of method are the really big ones…”
Alot of seasoned vets and DECENT trainers will advise you that going upto the biggest guy in the gym and asking what he does food and iron wise, is NOT gonna do jack for you.
Everyone is different, everyone responds different and grows different. The guy with 18" arms may have just had to do rows and presses 3-4 x a week for 2 years to get there… but i will have to train for many many years to get upto 18" arms, using a wide range of techniques and trial and error.
Now genetically, who is better? Yup. And who do you think is likely to have a lot more information on “growing” arms? Really? Twat.
I am NOT knocking any guys (who are bigger than me! lol) who have put in the years, and tears and got to the BIG stage, it is where i am going too, i am attacking this crappy, blanket, gross generalisation that is fundamentally wrong. So calm down Mr Professor, i can feel you watching this one…
Joe
Calm down a little bit, man. I think he was just implying that he doesn’t want to spoil the thread with people who have sub-15" arms trying dole out advice.[/quote]
Fair enough…
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Here’s a question:
Should someone just starting out do direct arm work?
I’m in the Dave Tate school on this: “You can’t flex bone.” If you don’t have enough mass to flex, there is no point to direct work on tertiary muscle groups.
[/quote]
maybe its because i havent been lifting as long as some of you vets but i dont understand why you wouldnt want to do direct arm work. i mean if you have no mass wouldnt the idea be to put on as much as you can? i could see someone not training for BBing who has already put on a decent amount of size not doing direct arm work but arms make up a decent portion of the overall body. to me the concept of not working something because you want to to make it bigger is backwards logic i.e you have small arms so dont work them to make them bigger.
maybe im just interperting it wrong?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Here’s a question:
Should someone just starting out do direct arm work?
I’m in the Dave Tate school on this: “You can’t flex bone.” If you don’t have enough mass to flex, there is no point to direct work on tertiary muscle groups.
[/quote]
I’m on the fence on this one. I’m speaking about biceps specifically here. They seem to not grow as much with indirect work (rows, pulls, etc) as tris do with pressing movements. There’s definitely a work difference between the two.
But early on, I would say no it’s not really necessary, but what can it really hurt? Dedicating an entire day to them early on, I say hell no. Doing them as a supplemental movement to rows and such, sure, why not? Then when the foundation is built, work on the imbalances if the person sees them.