The Body Weight Factor

Training
61

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I’ve got to go make dinner, so I’m gonna split for the night after this post, but… dude, who’s being biased now? What you just wrote is riddled with bias and your opinion. And opinion is fine as long as it isn’t presented as fact.
[/quote]

Chris, let me say that you’re probably one of my favorite authors on here. You address each and every thread posing questions (usually in the beginners section where we don’t all have the patience to sit and explain the rudimentary aspects), and always exercise restraint, and politeness in even the most ridiculous situations. However, it seems that you haven’t spent a great deal of time on the BBing forum, or the new Xer, Xer, and Xer forum.

While most posters (myself included) don’t usually have mean spirited issues disagreeing with others on this site, this assumed position of sole authority is nothing new. Heck, this can’t even be considered a new thread, it’s just a continuation of X’s constant writing about how the way HE accomplished his goals are the way everyone should approach theirs (always using terms like “most”, and “many” when outlining details). Other approaches will get jumped on and ridiculed, while those who agree get the “good post” or “best post” stamps of approval.

I have a feeling the buzz word for this thread will be “bias”.

S

62

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I’ve got to go make dinner, so I’m gonna split for the night after this post, but… dude, who’s being biased now? What you just wrote is riddled with bias and your opinion. And opinion is fine as long as it isn’t presented as fact.
[/quote]

Chris, let me say that you’re probably one of my favorite authors on here. You address each and every thread posing questions (usually in the beginners section where we don’t all have the patience to sit and explain the rudimentary aspects), and always exercise restraint, and politeness in even the most ridiculous situations. However, it seems that you haven’t spent a great deal of time on the BBing forum, or the new Xer, Xer, and Xer forum.

While most posters (myself included) don’t usually have mean spirited issues disagreeing with others on this site, this assumed position of sole authority is nothing new. Heck, this can’t even be considered a new thread, it’s just a continuation of X’s constant writing about how the way HE accomplished his goals are the way everyone should approach theirs (always using terms like “most”, and “many” when outlining details). Other approaches will get jumped on and ridiculed, while those who agree get the “good post” or “best post” stamps of approval.

I have a feeling the buzz word for this thread will be “bias”.

S[/quote]

good post

63

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I’ve got to go make dinner, so I’m gonna split for the night after this post, but… dude, who’s being biased now? What you just wrote is riddled with bias and your opinion. And opinion is fine as long as it isn’t presented as fact.
[/quote]

Chris, let me say that you’re probably one of my favorite authors on here. You address each and every thread posing questions (usually in the beginners section where we don’t all have the patience to sit and explain the rudimentary aspects), and always exercise restraint, and politeness in even the most ridiculous situations. However, it seems that you haven’t spent a great deal of time on the BBing forum, or the new Xer, Xer, and Xer forum.

While most posters (myself included) don’t usually have mean spirited issues disagreeing with others on this site, this assumed position of sole authority is nothing new. Heck, this can’t even be considered a new thread, it’s just a continuation of X’s constant writing about how the way HE accomplished his goals are the way everyone should approach theirs (always using terms like “most”, and “many” when outlining details). Other approaches will get jumped on and ridiculed, while those who agree get the “good post” or “best post” stamps of approval.

I have a feeling the buzz word for this thread will be “bias”.

S[/quote]

Best post.

64

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I’m gonna chime in here for the sake of discussion and hopefully learning something. I understand that gaining body weight and having tha correlate to a stronger lift doesn’t necessarily mean it was a muscular gain. However, say you gain a reasonable amount of body weight and your deaift goes up considerabley. Even if most of that body weight gain was fat couldn’t you make the argument that by being stronger and your body adapting to heavier weights on both a muscular and neural system level you would have put yourself in a better position to increase muscle mass? The hard part about this discussion is there are so many factors.[/quote]

I think highly unlikely there will be an advantage in muscular gain compared to a less extreme approach.

65

@ Chris, Like stu said you really do a hell of a job in the beginners section man. Seriously. You’re always thorough post after post and its impressive. You’ve helped me out a ton over there too.

66

“I think highly unlikely there will be an advantage in muscular gain compared to a less extreme approach.”
I guess this is where the factors come in. I mean if a 6’2 guy is starting out at 140lbs I strongly believe he should focus on gaining a pound per week and progressing in his main lifts and he will see greater results than worrying about leanness. Granted his diet isn’t entirely shit. When I gained weight I honestly didnt get to a noticeable level of bf until I hit 195lbs. But if the guy is 6’ 200 to begin with then I believe he could put less emphasis on adding weight and more on getting stronger with weight gain as a side effect. So many factors man

67

How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?

68

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

If a skinny guy’s goals are “making the most gains possible” and “really making people move out of the way when he walks in a room”, then yes, they’ll have to focus on gaining bodyweight.

What exactly is the question?

[/quote]

Exactly that. I see many posts telling people to avoid the scale or to ignore the weight and just look in the mirror.

I am just making it clear that yes, working on gaining body weight should be a goal in itself along with making sure most of it is muscle. There seem to be some who make anything much over 200lbs lately seem like nothing but fat gain.

I am asking for those who got big to speak up on how they did it also.

X, from the way you’ve spoken year after year on here, it seems like you’re in a never ending state of progress in muscular size. Most naturals encounter some serious decrease in progress after about five years of training or seeming complete halts in some years, even when doing things right, and this goes for some of the best natties in history.

How are you able to make SIGNIFICANT progress year after year after year? You’re the only person I’ve ever encountered who’s always making progress? At this point, you have supposedly doubled, the progress in muscular gains of the best natties on earth.

What do you attribute this to? Stellar genetics? Dietary practices? Hard work ethic? Dedication and consistency?

69

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
“I think highly unlikely there will be an advantage in muscular gain compared to a less extreme approach.”
I guess this is where the factors come in. I mean if a 6’2 guy is starting out at 140lbs I strongly believe he should focus on gaining a pound per week and progressing in his main lifts and he will see greater results than worrying about leanness. Granted his diet isn’t entirely shit. When I gained weight I honestly didnt get to a noticeable level of bf until I hit 195lbs. But if the guy is 6’ 200 to begin with then I believe he could put less emphasis on adding weight and more on getting stronger with weight gain as a side effect. So many factors man [/quote]

The more manageable way to do things is to set calories for a particular goal, say 10 to 15% above maintenance, or whatever someone judges to be suitable increase, and see what happens. If it works, then continue. If not, change something.

This whole notion of poundage goal is shoddy because it doesn’t take into account how the body is reacting into real body composition. Goals like, “I’m gonna hit 250” or “I’m not gonna start dieting until I hit 300” are extremely haphazard because they indicate a goal irrespective of what’s going on with muscular and fat gain.

I guess a really young, underweight, untrained guy can get away for awhile with the “pound per week” goal til he starts getting a bit too fat. But I can’t see this going well past the 6 month mark or so.

AND AGAIN, it comes down to what the person wants to do! If the person doesn’t mind a 1:1 fat/muscle gain, then they can just do that.

AND AGAIN, I’ll probably get hit on here because even though I respect people’s “full house” and all-out bulk preferences, my writing will usually interpreted as if I don’t.

70

At this point, it seems X’s sole purpose on these boards is discuss situations that justify his own methods over the years. To be honest i feel that doing this is contributing very little to forums.

but yes, it’s entertaining.

71

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
For a skinny newb, I’d have them learn to train and learn to eat right.[/quote]

Interesting.

What is “training right” and

what is “eating right”?

Shouldn’t their goals be the first thing looked at?[/quote]

Hence why I made my post above.

So X, what is RIGHT EATING for getting f-----g huge? Training?

Please be specific with the answers if you care to address my post above.

72

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
great new info here, bookmarking this for later so I can reread it[/quote]

will read thread to grandchildren[/quote]
x2
YOU WEIGH 45 LBS, YOU CAN GAIN MORE THAN 50 LBS

73

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
“I think highly unlikely there will be an advantage in muscular gain compared to a less extreme approach.”
I guess this is where the factors come in. I mean if a 6’2 guy is starting out at 140lbs I strongly believe he should focus on gaining a pound per week and progressing in his main lifts and he will see greater results than worrying about leanness. Granted his diet isn’t entirely shit. When I gained weight I honestly didnt get to a noticeable level of bf until I hit 195lbs. But if the guy is 6’ 200 to begin with then I believe he could put less emphasis on adding weight and more on getting stronger with weight gain as a side effect. So many factors man [/quote]

The more manageable way to do things is to set calories for a particular goal, say 10 to 15% above maintenance, or whatever someone judges to be suitable increase, and see what happens. If it works, then continue. If not, change something.

This whole notion of poundage goal is shoddy because it doesn’t take into account how the body is reacting into real body composition. Goals like, “I’m gonna hit 250” or “I’m not gonna start dieting until I hit 300” are extremely haphazard because they indicate a goal irrespective of what’s going on with muscular and fat gain.

I guess a really young, underweight, untrained guy can get away for awhile with the “pound per week” goal til he starts getting a bit too fat. But I can’t see this going well past the 6 month mark or so.

AND AGAIN, it comes down to what the person wants to do! If the person doesn’t mind a 1:1 fat/muscle gain, then they can just do that.

AND AGAIN, I’ll probably get hit on here because even though I respect people’s “full house” and all-out bulk preferences, my writing will usually interpreted as if I don’t. [/quote]

Like I said just my opinon. I think it worked for me cause I was really skinny, young, and didn’t care about the fat gain. For me the poundage goal was a good idea. It’s just how my mind works to have a concrete goal to work towards. However, that does not mean I don’t change things up if there is a necessity to do so. I didn’t start eating 4200 calories a day. I just slowly and gradually started to eat more. I honestly didn’t even legitimately start counting calories until I hit 185lbs and didn’t start counting macros until I hit 195. Adjusting macros and counting calories helped me get from 195 to 225 with less fat gain than if I hadn’t of counted though.

74

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
“I think highly unlikely there will be an advantage in muscular gain compared to a less extreme approach.”
I guess this is where the factors come in. I mean if a 6’2 guy is starting out at 140lbs I strongly believe he should focus on gaining a pound per week and progressing in his main lifts and he will see greater results than worrying about leanness. Granted his diet isn’t entirely shit. When I gained weight I honestly didnt get to a noticeable level of bf until I hit 195lbs. But if the guy is 6’ 200 to begin with then I believe he could put less emphasis on adding weight and more on getting stronger with weight gain as a side effect. So many factors man [/quote]

The more manageable way to do things is to set calories for a particular goal, say 10 to 15% above maintenance, or whatever someone judges to be suitable increase, and see what happens. If it works, then continue. If not, change something.

This whole notion of poundage goal is shoddy because it doesn’t take into account how the body is reacting into real body composition. Goals like, “I’m gonna hit 250” or “I’m not gonna start dieting until I hit 300” are extremely haphazard because they indicate a goal irrespective of what’s going on with muscular and fat gain.

I guess a really young, underweight, untrained guy can get away for awhile with the “pound per week” goal til he starts getting a bit too fat. But I can’t see this going well past the 6 month mark or so.

AND AGAIN, it comes down to what the person wants to do! If the person doesn’t mind a 1:1 fat/muscle gain, then they can just do that.

AND AGAIN, I’ll probably get hit on here because even though I respect people’s “full house” and all-out bulk preferences, my writing will usually interpreted as if I don’t. [/quote]

Like I said just my opinon. I think it worked for me cause I was really skinny, young, and didn’t care about the fat gain. For me the poundage goal was a good idea. It’s just how my mind works to have a concrete goal to work towards. However, that does not mean I don’t change things up if there is a necessity to do so. I didn’t start eating 4200 calories a day. I just slowly and gradually started to eat more. I honestly didn’t even legitimately start counting calories until I hit 185lbs and didn’t start counting macros until I hit 195. Adjusting macros and counting calories helped me get from 195 to 225 with less fat gain than if I hadn’t of counted though.
[/quote]

Gotcha.

75

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
For a skinny newb, I’d have them learn to train and learn to eat right.[/quote]
Good post

76

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

And as my last post pointed out, you left no interpretation to what the goals would be.

[/quote]

I made the point to show an extreme goal at the start for a reason…to very blatantly define the goals and the fact that a different approach may be needed. Like Chris pointed out, it may be a hypothetical, but one can not describe the difference in approach without setting the goals.

I am not telling all newbs to have the same goal.[/quote]

So it was a bait and switch, then.

X: What should a newb who’s GOAL is to make the most gains possible do?

DD: Learn to eat right and train right.

X: Shouldn’t their GOAL be the first thing looked at?

Bait and switch.

[/quote]

It is whatever you want it to be…since you clearly are not here to discuss the topic at all.

No, “train right and eat right” are concepts that take the entire life of a weight trainer to learn how to control for their individual physique and goals.

There is no one way to “eat right”…therefore, that should not be the very first thing looked at with a new trainer.[/quote]

He needs to learn to train. As in actually learn patterns and what does what. Learn to squat, chest press, est.

No, he should not be trying to gain a bunch or weight if he doesn’t first know how to train.

He needs to learn the basics of nutrition. The general functions of protein, fat, carbs, and learn how to look at/evaluate his food in terms of workout nutrition and building his body.

No, he should not be trying to gain a bunch of weight before he learns about food.

The first step to building a brick wall is to learn about bricks and motor and how they go together, not to start building.[/quote]

A simple but useful post.

And I think all of us know what Cueball was getting at when he said a noob should learn good training and eating. I think X wanted to argue with Cue further. With ANY lifting goal, whether it be general fitness, bodybuilding, or powerlifting, the approach in the beginning is similar amongst all of them: full body routines and learning the basic lifts.

77

[quote]cally wrote:
How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?[/quote]

X2.

I have just been reading here lately and find it hilarious that this thread has been started. X, surely you knew what response you would get? This topic has been discussed over and over again yet you STILL think it needs discussing?!

78

I am dropping by just to welcome.the newest.member of my posse

79

[quote]The Rattler wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:
How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?[/quote]

X2.

I have just been reading here lately and find it hilarious that this thread has been started. X, surely you knew what response you would get? This topic has been discussed over and over again yet you STILL think it needs discussing?! [/quote]

worst post

this shit never gets old

let’s all pray to jesus this thread reaches 50 pages

80

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
great new info here, bookmarking this for later so I can reread it[/quote]

will read thread to grandchildren[/quote]

I will convert to pdf format, save on my hard drive, back it up on a flash disk, tattoo it on my back as a safety measure, drive to the bank, put the jump drive in a safety deposit box, hide the key up my ass so no one ever steals it, leave it there until my children (and later, their grandchildren) turn about 18 years of age (because only when they are emotionally ready to die for their country will they be emotionally prepared for this), when I will pick it up, place the flash drive into an old USB drive reader and blow their mindholes with this cool thread, saying, “Kids, this is what a cool thread should look and sound like…not like the shit your generation posts on the web.”