Not if you don’t know that bare basics, of which much of the population doesn’t. Their idea of of training and eating big might mean girl pushups and beef flavored Doritos.[/quote]
Good for them…but I am, not talking about the person who is that clueless. I was a skinny newb and even completely devoid of gym knowledge didn’t think that was ok…but to each his own.
The issue here is NOT for someone to ignore the basics. Why is it “either or” with so many of you?
Someone can’t learn what pure junk is and work hard in the gym and gain muscular body weight at the same time?
How do you tell someone what is “bad”?
yeah, we may all agree with Doritoes…,.but what about pizza…or a hamburger with no cheese or sauce…or tons of other foods that go in and out of popularity?
You plan to teach all of this before they gain at all?
Not if you don’t know that bare basics, of which much of the population doesn’t. Their idea of of training and eating big might mean girl pushups and beef flavored Doritos.[/quote]
Good for them…but I am, not talking about the person who is that clueless. I was a skinny newb and even completely devoid of gym knowledge didn’t think that was ok…but to each his own.
The issue here is NOT for someone to ignore the basics. Why is it “either or” with so many of you?
Someone can’t learn what pure junk is and work hard in the gym and gain muscular body weight at the same time?
How do you tell someone what is “bad”?
yeah, we may all agree with Doritoes…,.but what about pizza…or a hamburger with no cheese or sauce…or tons of other foods that go in and out of popularity?
You plan to teach all of this before they gain at all?[/quote]
I wasn’t forbidding anyone from doing anything. I’m saying that if the guy doesn’t know what a bench press or dumbbell fly is, it’s going to be hard to grow his chest. And eating more of whatever he’s eating while learning how to even lift is a bad recipe.
Basics. No one knows everything. I mentioned some things they should know.
You said newb in your post. I assumed that mean without any experience. That’s what I posted about.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
And eating more of whatever he’s eating while learning how to even lift is a bad recipe.
[/quote]
?
But all of us were learning how to lift while we were gaining. I know I was. Who here waited until they understood all about food before making any gains at all?
Further, who here actually is claiming they know so much and how much progress have they made?
I know it took several year for me to learn how to eat right just for me. How would you do it for someone else before they even start lifting to gain?
I started out at 6’2 139lbs. I could barely bench 95lbs and I didn’t even know what a Deadlift was. I gained 83lbs in a year and a half and my strength levels went up enormously (respectively). They would have gone up so much more if it weren’t for some serious unrelated health issues and surgeries. I finished my bulk 3 weeks ago at 223 21% bf.
I’m a bit pudgy but I don’t mind, although I have started a cut that I will continue down to 205 and reassess. In short I know that putting on the weight was well worth it and I would do it all over again in an instant. I’ve never had the desire to be super lean, and strength is my priority. I find myself laughing occasionally at the “full house” thread cause I honestly prefer to walk around with the full house look.
Maybe I’m weird idk. Long story short I believe that, depending on the individuals body type and health background, putting on a good amount of body weight in a smart manner can be crucial to strength and muscular gains. @ professor x. I disagree with the way you voice your opinion in many circumstances, and in honesty you can come off as kinda a dick at times.
However, you responded to my first thread on here 2 years ago about gaining size and hold me to basically suck it up and eat more. It seemed like a slap in the face at the time but it was the most important thing I could have been told. I thank you for that and I’ve stuck to that principle to this day.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I started out at 6’2 139lbs. I could barely bench 95lbs and I didn’t even know what a Deadlift was. I gained 83lbs in a year and a half and my strength levels went up enormously (respectively). They would have gone up so much more if it weren’t for some serious unrelated health issues and surgeries. I finished my bulk 3 weeks ago at 223 21% bf. I’m a bit pudgy but I don’t mind, although I have started a cut that I will continue down to 205 and reassess. In short I know that putting on the weight was well worth it and I would do it all over again in an instant. I’ve never had the desire to be super lean, and strength is my priority. I find myself laughing occasionally at the “full house” thread cause I honestly prefer to walk around with the full house look. Maybe I’m weird idk. Long story short I believe that, depending on the individuals body type and health background, putting on a good amount of body weight in a smart manner can be crucial to strength and muscular gains. @ professor x. I disagree with the way you voice your opinion in many circumstances, and in honesty you can come off as kinda a dick at times. However, you responded to my first thread on here 2 years ago about gaining size and hold me to basically suck it up and eat more. It seemed like a slap in the face at the time but it was the most important thing I could have been told. I thank you for that and I’ve stuck to that principle to this day. [/quote]
Thanks for that…and I hope you are still making great progress.
Not if you don’t know that bare basics, of which much of the population doesn’t. Their idea of of training and eating big might mean girl pushups and beef flavored Doritos.[/quote]
Good for them…but I am, not talking about the person who is that clueless. I was a skinny newb and even completely devoid of gym knowledge didn’t think that was ok…but to each his own.
The issue here is NOT for someone to ignore the basics. Why is it “either or” with so many of you?
Someone can’t learn what pure junk is and work hard in the gym and gain muscular body weight at the same time?
How do you tell someone what is “bad”?
yeah, we may all agree with Doritoes…,.but what about pizza…or a hamburger with no cheese or sauce…or tons of other foods that go in and out of popularity?
You plan to teach all of this before they gain at all?[/quote]
I wasn’t forbidding anyone from doing anything. I’m saying that if the guy doesn’t know what a bench press or dumbbell fly is, it’s going to be hard to grow his chest. And eating more of whatever he’s eating while learning how to even lift is a bad recipe.
Basics. No one knows everything. I mentioned some things they should know.
You said newb in your post. I assumed that mean without any experience. That’s what I posted about.[/quote]
Not if you don’t know that bare basics, of which much of the population doesn’t. Their idea of of training and eating big might mean girl pushups and beef flavored Doritos.[/quote]
Good for them…but I am, not talking about the person who is that clueless. I was a skinny newb and even completely devoid of gym knowledge didn’t think that was ok…but to each his own.
The issue here is NOT for someone to ignore the basics. Why is it “either or” with so many of you?
Someone can’t learn what pure junk is and work hard in the gym and gain muscular body weight at the same time?
How do you tell someone what is “bad”?
yeah, we may all agree with Doritoes…,.but what about pizza…or a hamburger with no cheese or sauce…or tons of other foods that go in and out of popularity?
You plan to teach all of this before they gain at all?[/quote]
I wasn’t forbidding anyone from doing anything. I’m saying that if the guy doesn’t know what a bench press or dumbbell fly is, it’s going to be hard to grow his chest. And eating more of whatever he’s eating while learning how to even lift is a bad recipe.
Basics. No one knows everything. I mentioned some things they should know.
You said newb in your post. I assumed that mean without any experience. That’s what I posted about.[/quote]
But all of us were learning how to lift while we were gaining. I know I was. Who here waited until they understood all about food before making any gains at all?
Further, who here actually is claiming they know so much and how much progress have they made?
I know it took several year for me to learn how to eat right just for me. How would you do it for someone else before they even start lifting to gain?[/quote]
Utter BS. I never said you can’t continue to learn to train. I never said you need to know everything about food. Absolute lies. You are purposefully spouting nonsense.
How do you “lift to gain”? Any lifting as a newb is to gain.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Bias? That kinda came outta nowhere.
It’s actually coming from experience as someone who’s trained kids in the gym and taught kids martial arts. If a youngster comes into the dojo and says he wants to learn karate in order to beat someone up, I’m going to sit down and talk to him, explaining why that’s not why we learn what we learn.[/quote]
I’m sorry, but beating someone up and being big enough to be noticed are not the same.
We all should have that goal to some degree if we are posting here.
How? It is the same thing.
I do. What YOU read into it is based on your own life experience and bias.[/quote]
I’ve got to go make dinner, so I’m gonna split for the night after this post, but… dude, who’s being biased now? What you just wrote is riddled with bias and your opinion. And opinion is fine as long as it isn’t presented as fact.
My personal goal is not to have all eyes turn to me when I walk into a room. If you feel that’s a reason why I should post less and contribute fewer articles, I think it speaks more of you than me, sorry man.
Gains in bodyweight don’t always correlate to bigger muscles because even adding solely fat can lead to bigger lifts. Some people believe because they gained strength in a particular lift, there must be a gain in muscle size. In some cases this is so, but in the case of increased leverage and cushioning or decreased bar distance, it’s not. You can pretty much eat your way to a bigger bench.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Gains in bodyweight don’t always correlate to bigger muscles because even adding solely fat can lead to bigger lifts. Some people believe because they gained strength in a particular lift, there must be a gain in muscle size. In some cases this is so, but in the case of increased leverage and cushioning or decreased bar distance, it’s not. You can pretty much eat your way to a bigger bench. [/quote]
newbs will also gain tremendous amounts from learning movement and learning to use existing muscle.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Bias? That kinda came outta nowhere.
It’s actually coming from experience as someone who’s trained kids in the gym and taught kids martial arts. If a youngster comes into the dojo and says he wants to learn karate in order to beat someone up, I’m going to sit down and talk to him, explaining why that’s not why we learn what we learn.[/quote]
I’m sorry, but beating someone up and being big enough to be noticed are not the same.
We all should have that goal to some degree if we are posting here.
How? It is the same thing.
I do. What YOU read into it is based on your own life experience and bias.[/quote]
I’ve got to go make dinner, so I’m gonna split for the night after this post, but… dude, who’s being biased now? What you just wrote is riddled with bias and your opinion. And opinion is fine as long as it isn’t presented as fact.
My personal goal is not to have all eyes turn to me when I walk into a room. If you feel that’s a reason why I should post less and contribute fewer articles, I think it speaks more of you than me, sorry man.[/quote]
You must be a secret member of Zraw’s X Haterz crew…you are now labeled as such forever…lol.
X, because you seem to not be willing or able to provide specific nutrition recommendations for gaining for noobs, can you tell us what you’d have intermediates do, say people who’ve been lifting for six months or more and have now stalled?
Like, say for example, what do we do with this guy?
185 pounds
5’10"
17% bodyfat
He’s got somewhat of a clue to do with nutrition, but it’s not nailed down yet. From a food diary we see he eats an average of 3,000 calories per day, but he’s got no solid macronutrient percentage allotment, his protein intake is all over the place, and the fats and carbs he eats aren’t always the best quality.
He’s like you; he doesn’t want to become obese, but isn’t so fussy about seeing his abs all the time; wants to put up some big numbers, maybe even do some powerlifting meets; and have people move out of the way when they see him coming.
What do you recommend for:
Caloric amount and carb, protein, and fat allotment.
Food choices.
Any cardio or conditioning recommendations to keep fat gain to a minimum and to make it easier when coming down? Frequency and amount? Or do you think cardio should be done away with when gaining?
What should he do for all three of the above when he wants to trim down?
Also, because we’re talking about noobs, and you won’t provide specific nutrition guidelines (because you feel those guidelines should be provided after some time in the gym to the noob), what’s your recommended five day split for noobs being this is the training frequency you recommend for noobs? Bodypart split? Upper-lower several times per week? Why not full body sessions learning just a few basic lifts like bench, row, overhead press, squats, and deadlifts (similar to Bill Starr 5 x 5, Starting Strength, or Jim Wendler’s noobie full body 531 suggestion)?
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Gains in bodyweight don’t always correlate to bigger muscles because even adding solely fat can lead to bigger lifts. Some people believe because they gained strength in a particular lift, there must be a gain in muscle size. In some cases this is so, but in the case of increased leverage and cushioning or decreased bar distance, it’s not. You can pretty much eat your way to a bigger bench. [/quote]
newbs will also gain tremendous amounts from learning movements and learning to use existing muscle. [/quote]
Yup, in some cases even some muscle gains without increasing caloric amount.
[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
This is exactly what I did…per the advice of the infamous Prof X, due to his “Ask Prof X” thread.
I started off a skinny 155lbs.
I bulked up to a “fat” 230.
I was able to develop a shit ton of strength, that I feel I would have never gained, had I tried to gain slowly and keep the bodyfat at a minimum. I would eat an entire pizza, and that would allow me to train for 2 hours, with relatively “heavy” weights, than most of my friends who would burn out after an hour eating “healthy” food.
I was able to deadlift 5 plates, squat almost 4, bench 3, and push 100’s+ on pressing exercises, among others. (this is not to brag, but to say that I believe I achieved this strength STRICTLY because of the food)
I am now down to 200.
[/quote]
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
Good to see you realized that carrying around that extra 30 lbs of weight wasn’t helping you in any way and took the time to diet it off before getting back to gaining. Be aware that the next 30-40 lbs of lean mass isn’t going to come nearly as fast and there’s no way to force it by eating ghastly amounts of food.
I’m gonna chime in here for the sake of discussion and hopefully learning something. I understand that gaining body weight and having tha correlate to a stronger lift doesn’t necessarily mean it was a muscular gain. However, say you gain a reasonable amount of body weight and your deaift goes up considerabley. Even if most of that body weight gain was fat couldn’t you make the argument that by being stronger and your body adapting to heavier weights on both a muscular and neural system level you would have put yourself in a better position to increase muscle mass? The hard part about this discussion is there are so many factors.