Unbelievable how you claim you can’t give nutrition recommendations without background info, meanwhile I just provided weight, height, and bodyfat percentage.
[/quote]
These are not all of the variables to account for. These factors tell you nothing about how this individual processes food or the rate they gain muscle or lose body fat.
[quote]
I should have told my nutrition professors to stop giving me case studies on tests, because after all, the case studies are hypothetical and not real people. [/quote]
Most case studies in school involve very specific variables for the sake of the test. Humans are not words on a page and how someone progresses in the gym is an individual action that takes individual analysis.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
wait…im sorry, i know i pop in and out but im confused. Are we still arguing that extra food makes extra mucle on top of optimal nutrient intake? brb while i go snort some cheeseburgers. [/quote]
No. What is being argued is that none of you have the expensive medical equipment at home to daily come up with some way to account for all variables so that you ONLY gain muscle at an optimal rate. If that needs further explanation, just ask.[/quote]
Nope, we don’t have or want that expensive medical equipment. Nor do we need it.
What we have at our disposal is nutrition education (which you refuse to provide), experience, logic, judgment, and analysis so that we don’t become overly fat when we want to gain muscle.
You know, kind of like the way people use those attributes when dieting down so they don’t lose too much muscle even though they don’t know the EXACT amount of calories they should be burning and consuming when dieting down or just to keep a regular person healthy when losing some pounds.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
wait…im sorry, i know i pop in and out but im confused. Are we still arguing that extra food makes extra mucle on top of optimal nutrient intake? brb while i go snort some cheeseburgers. [/quote]
No. What is being argued is that none of you have the expensive medical equipment at home to daily come up with some way to account for all variables so that you ONLY gain muscle at an optimal rate. If that needs further explanation, just ask.[/quote]
Ok, ill bite…
What expensive medical equipment will one need in order to account for all the variable so that I would only gain muscle at an optimal rate when bulking?
I would assume the mirror would be a cheaper, albiet, less effective device but what do I know.
Unbelievable how you claim you can’t give nutrition recommendations without background info, meanwhile I just provided weight, height, and bodyfat percentage.
[/quote]
These are not all of the variables to account for. These factors tell you nothing about how this individual processes food or the rate they gain muscle or lose body fat.
[quote]
I should have told my nutrition professors to stop giving me case studies on tests, because after all, the case studies are hypothetical and not real people. [/quote]
Most case studies in school involve very specific variables for the sake of the test. Humans are not words on a page and how someone progresses in the gym is an individual action that takes individual analysis.
Why? [/quote]
Actually some case studies weren’t that damn complex when showing my dietetics competency in school nor are most clients/patients.
You look at height, weight, lab values, food recall or journal, physical activity, body composition, medical history, goals, and that’s pretty much it!
Then you come up with some objectives and design a damn diet!
So what do we do with all these SAMPLE diets for fake people that are outlined in the nutrition articles on T-mag? Get rid of them because they’re based on fake people? What about the sample templates provided for training for fake people in the training articles?
I gave you an example of a guy who wants to be like you. And provided some history and info and you refused to provide some input.
And you also said you provide advice based on progress. Well, noobs don’t have any experience, so they haven’t made any progress. What should we tell them?
[quote]Waittz wrote:
wait…im sorry, i know i pop in and out but im confused. Are we still arguing that extra food makes extra mucle on top of optimal nutrient intake? brb while i go snort some cheeseburgers. [/quote]
No. What is being argued is that none of you have the expensive medical equipment at home to daily come up with some way to account for all variables so that you ONLY gain muscle at an optimal rate. If that needs further explanation, just ask.[/quote]
Ok, ill bite…
What expensive medical equipment will one need in order to account for all the variable so that I would only gain muscle at an optimal rate when bulking?
I would assume the mirror would be a cheaper, albiet, less effective device but what do I know.[/quote]
We don’t have the equipment to track all daily changes in hormones and caloric use as it changes all day long without constant blood tests.
Some of simply chose to be sure we were giving our bodies enough to grow optimally instead of guessing with a focus primarily on fat levels.
Nope, we don’t have or want that expensive medical equipment. Nor do we need it. [/quote]
To make some claim that you are ONLY eating optimally to ONLY gain muscle would need these things.
[quote]
What we have at our disposal is nutrition education (which you refuse to provide), experience, logic, judgment, and analysis so that we don’t become overly fat when we want to gain muscle.
. [/quote]
Yes, and the human body is not a calculator. Stress alone can effect caloric use and anabolism.
And I asked you to design a meal with those macronutrient percentages because you’ve implied you know what we should eat. So if someone needs a decent meal with those macronutrient allotments, what should eat, and how much? You can even probably design a meal with bread and ground beef (burgers) or a pizza meeting those macronutrient allotments.
You’ve implied you’re a veteran with expertise and that others here aren’t equipped with the same knowledge to get where they want to be. This is why I’m asking for your advice. You said you’re here to help.
Actually some case studies weren’t that damn complex when showing my dietetics competency in school nor are most clients/patients. [/quote]
Case studies set the perameters. Real life is an x-factor.
Wrong. Some of us gain muscle faster than others and some of us can eat more crap and stay leaner than others. You will not know this before someone even starts a training program.
Nope, we don’t have or want that expensive medical equipment. Nor do we need it. [/quote]
To make some claim that you are ONLY eating optimally to ONLY gain muscle would need these things.
Who here said that people usually gain ONLY muscle on a caloric surplus. Most of us in the know understand there will be SOME fat gain on a “bulk”. Where did we say otherwise?
We also already know there are stressors in life that make things not go as planned all the time. This is where logic and common sense and judgment come into play, as stated above.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And I asked you to design a meal with those macronutrient percentages because you’ve implied you know what we should eat. [/quote]
I implied I should know what you should eat?
Where?
There are basic guidelines to follow for overall health but why would I literally tell a newb exactly what to eat without any consideration for how they progress?
If a newb has no clue about diet, there may be recommendations of choosing better food sources, but how would I know EXACTLY what they should eat this week and next week without looking at what their body is doing with it?
Wrong. Some of us gain muscle faster than others and some of us can eat more crap and stay leaner than others. You will not know this before someone even starts a training program.
[/quote]
Hence the term “BASELINE DIET”. Make a diet and make adjustments based on progress. But for some reason, you can’t even provide a baseline diet!
If a newb has no clue about diet, there may be recommendations of choosing better food sources, but how would I know EXACTLY what they should eat this week and next week without looking at what their body is doing with it?
[/quote]
At least we’re on the same page about something: making adjustments based on what’s going on. Unfortunately you can’t part with a basic five day training split or some nutrition suggestions for noobs in general.
Who here said that people usually gain ONLY muscle on a caloric surplus.[/quote]
No one. What was stated is that the alternative is somehow saying that the human body can be force fed muscle…when that is NOT the point being made here.
We already know the average person will NOT gain ONLY muscle…that is the point.
You may KNOW about the stressors in life but you can NOT predict how the human body will respond through all of them…thus the concept that the goal of a newb is to er on the side of ANABOLISM and not guessing for abs alone.
Wrong. Some of us gain muscle faster than others and some of us can eat more crap and stay leaner than others. You will not know this before someone even starts a training program.
[/quote]
Hence the term “BASELINE DIET”. Make a diet and make adjustments based on progress. But for some reason, you can’t even provide a baseline diet![/quote]
If a newb has no clue about diet, there may be recommendations of choosing better food sources, but how would I know EXACTLY what they should eat this week and next week without looking at what their body is doing with it?
[/quote]
Here’s how a professional should know or at least use best judgment in providing nutrition education to a noob who’s never paid attention to diet or set foot in a gym.
Take into account:
medical history
height
weight
body comp
goal
food preferences
education level
resources
lab values
PROGRESS can’t be taken into account so this is what the diet is based on. Unless we nutrition professionals are doing something wrong. And because you know what to do, and I want to become better at giving nutrition advice and writing diets, I’m asking you for some tips on what we should do with uneducated, inexperienced noobs.
Wrong. Some of us gain muscle faster than others and some of us can eat more crap and stay leaner than others. You will not know this before someone even starts a training program.
[/quote]
Hence the term “BASELINE DIET”. Make a diet and make adjustments based on progress. But for some reason, you can’t even provide a baseline diet![/quote]
Can’t? Dude, I don’t jump through hoops. [/quote]
It’s called demonstrating expertise you claim, NOT jumping through hoops, something which I don’t expect of people.
You may KNOW about the stressors in life but you can NOT predict how the human body will respond through all of them…thus the concept that the goal of a newb is to er on the side of ANABOLISM and not guessing for abs alone.[/quote]
Yes, which is why professionals use something called JUDGMENT, which is based on experience and knowledge!
There’s not ONE damn pre-contest coach–not Shelby, not Stu, not John Meadows, not Scott Abel, not Chris Aceto, or whoever–who’ s a damn clairvoyant, able to predict exactly what is going to happen to someone with next week’s menu or training schedule. However, they became great nutritionists because of applying JUDGMENT over and over and over and seeing the results that USUALLY occur!
