The Body Weight Factor

Training
281

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

I could see if the people with this opinion were the smallest ones on this board…but that isn’t the case by a long shot.[/quote]

Because the bulking up nearly killed him?[/quote]

Wouldn’t the extreme he took it to and his drug use be the issue here?

[quote]

Because that near death took his weight to below 200 (if I remember correctly)?

And because he then built back up to his current physique staying lean?[/quote]

Wow, you haven’t heard of muscle memory?

I gained 20lbs of muscle a few months back after I got the cast off my hand and could lift again.

282

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Consistency is a given for anyone above average. I would prefer to discuss what seperates the great from above average. As in what the world class powerlifter/strongman/bodybuilder (gasp!) does that the above average gym rat doesn’t. Anyone can go to the gym consistently and seperate themselves from fat people that eat cookies all day. [/quote]

But that’s not what this forum is about. It’s about the average lifter growing as a lifter. How can we really discuss this anyway?

“Well I read Ronnie does this in MenÃ?¢??s Health so that must be the secret,” do yu see what I’m saying? It’s all here say unless the pros or elite are posting themselves. Which is they are it likely would be in their respective forum. For example Stu, a well above average possibly elite bodybuilder (I don’t know much about the sport), posts most of his advice in his BB forum threads. That makes sense, so if you want to see what he is doing to set himself apart that’s where the discussion will be.

Most of us are and will always be average/slightly above average. So discussing how the pros separate themselves is not really helpful when half the people here can’t properly deadlift 300 pounds.
[/quote]

Discussing what makes the best the best can only help the average lifter get better imo. Will it make them a pro? Hell no. Doesn’t matter. A recreational golfer that wants nothing more than improve better his game a bit would look at what pro golfers do and emulate that. Why would recreational lifters be any different? [/quote]

Because golfers don’t use AAS to reach 6 under par.

I agree with you in some respects. You want to emulate the best in life, but we all know the 5X5 program the “pro” does couple with the N.O Explode he swears by is not the full story.

283

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

[/quote]

Maybe because he said himself that it was totally unhealthy, almost killed him and he now wishes that he had never done it?[/quote]

His extreme body weight and his food choices and his drug choices led to his health concerns. I also just wrote that I would’t even tell someone to get as fat as I did in the past…so what are you even arguing about?

284

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow…so the same posters literally troll; this thread to death…and they make it out like I made them do it?

How is it the other board members here are not tired of this shit?[/quote]

But X, I’m gonna call you out here. You can simply choose to ignore them, instead of responding to every single post.

I actually do gain information from these “shitstorm” threads, between people like Stu, Bricknyce, and Prof, among others…

BUT ITS SUCH A DRAG to read between the bullshit.

You need to simply ignore these people you feel are purposely trying to shit on you.

(not taking sides, just speaking the truth, it needs to stop on both sides)

285

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

And for the record he says he walks around anywhere from 8-12% bodyfat year round…so he is pretty much damn near contest ready all the time.[/quote]

8-12% non-depleted is NOT contest condition. That would mean he doesn’t even diet down for shows. What is wrong with you?[/quote]

So you are sayin that a 8% bodyfat and yoked, he is not close to being contest ready…TROLLOLOLOLOL

286

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Consistency is a given for anyone above average. I would prefer to discuss what seperates the great from above average. As in what the world class powerlifter/strongman/bodybuilder (gasp!) does that the above average gym rat doesn’t. Anyone can go to the gym consistently and seperate themselves from fat people that eat cookies all day. [/quote]

But that’s not what this forum is about. It’s about the average lifter growing as a lifter. How can we really discuss this anyway?

“Well I read Ronnie does this in MenÃ??Ã?¢??s Health so that must be the secret,” do yu see what I’m saying? It’s all here say unless the pros or elite are posting themselves. Which is they are it likely would be in their respective forum. For example Stu, a well above average possibly elite bodybuilder (I don’t know much about the sport), posts most of his advice in his BB forum threads. That makes sense, so if you want to see what he is doing to set himself apart that’s where the discussion will be.

Most of us are and will always be average/slightly above average. So discussing how the pros separate themselves is not really helpful when half the people here can’t properly deadlift 300 pounds.
[/quote]

Discussing what makes the best the best can only help the average lifter get better imo. Will it make them a pro? Hell no. Doesn’t matter. A recreational golfer that wants nothing more than improve better his game a bit would look at what pro golfers do and emulate that. Why would recreational lifters be any different? [/quote]

Because golfers don’t use AAS to reach 6 under par.

I agree with you in some respects. You want to emulate the best in life, but we all know the 5X5 program the “pro” does couple with the N.O Explode he swears by is not the full story.

[/quote]

Bingo.

287

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow…so the same posters literally troll; this thread to death…and they make it out like I made them do it?

How is it the other board members here are not tired of this shit?[/quote]

But X, I’m gonna call you out here. You can simply choose to ignore them, instead of responding to every single post.

I actually do gain information from these “shitstorm” threads, between people like Stu, Bricknyce, and Prof, among others…

BUT ITS SUCH A DRAG to read between the bullshit.

You need to simply ignore these people you feel are purposely trying to shit on you.

(not taking sides, just speaking the truth, it needs to stop on both sides)[/quote]

Agreed. I will try to do that…but I also know that if I simply did not respond, this thread wold be filled with NO useful content right now and a bunch of guys acting like everything I write is nonsense.

Now, people can see for themselves.

288

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Consistency is a given for anyone above average. I would prefer to discuss what seperates the great from above average. As in what the world class powerlifter/strongman/bodybuilder (gasp!) does that the above average gym rat doesn’t. Anyone can go to the gym consistently and seperate themselves from fat people that eat cookies all day. [/quote]

But that’s not what this forum is about. It’s about the average lifter growing as a lifter. How can we really discuss this anyway?

“Well I read Ronnie does this in MenÃ??Ã?¢??s Health so that must be the secret,” do yu see what I’m saying? It’s all here say unless the pros or elite are posting themselves. Which is they are it likely would be in their respective forum. For example Stu, a well above average possibly elite bodybuilder (I don’t know much about the sport), posts most of his advice in his BB forum threads. That makes sense, so if you want to see what he is doing to set himself apart that’s where the discussion will be.

Most of us are and will always be average/slightly above average. So discussing how the pros separate themselves is not really helpful when half the people here can’t properly deadlift 300 pounds.
[/quote]

Discussing what makes the best the best can only help the average lifter get better imo. Will it make them a pro? Hell no. Doesn’t matter. A recreational golfer that wants nothing more than improve better his game a bit would look at what pro golfers do and emulate that. Why would recreational lifters be any different? [/quote]

Because golfers don’t use AAS to reach 6 under par.

I agree with you in some respects. You want to emulate the best in life, but we all know the 5X5 program the “pro” does couple with the N.O Explode he swears by is not the full story.

[/quote]

Read my post above: nattys emulate natty pro’s/raw drug tested elite PLers etc. Use common sense.

289

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

I could see if the people with this opinion were the smallest ones on this board…but that isn’t the case by a long shot.[/quote]

Because the bulking up nearly killed him?[/quote]

Wouldn’t the extreme he took it to and his drug use be the issue here?

[quote]

Because that near death took his weight to below 200 (if I remember correctly)?

And because he then built back up to his current physique staying lean?[/quote]

Wow, you haven’t heard of muscle memory?

I gained 20lbs of muscle a few months back after I got the cast off my hand and could lift again.[/quote]

You do realize he is/was a natty and he got fat to keep up the size race with his frieds who were on the sauce…Right, oh always right one??

290

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Agreed. I am not here to shit on anyone else’s progress…but it sure seems that is what most of these other people are here for.

I created this thread to discuss the topic I presented.

if you don’t like that topic or think it has been discussed too much, why would you post here just to say that?

No, I am not going to debate with 5-10 people all at the same time just because some of you seem to ONLY try to literally shit on anything I post lately.

Some of you are becoming straight up assholes shitting on other people’s progress.

That is not what I am here for.

To the people who thanked me, you are welcome. Post more and help change these boards from this current tripe.[/quote]

Aren’t you the guy who said once that if you werent able to bench 405 as a natural within 3 or so years of training, you weren’t cut out for lifting weights?

My point was that his progress, while good, doesn’t prove the superiority of any method because its totally within the realm of possibility for kids his age with a few years of dedicated training. FFS, I even stated as much that I wasn’t shitting on his progress. I outright said it in the first sentence of my post.

We’re talking about a slightly less than 1.5x bw bench, less than 2x bw squat, and 2.5x bw deadlift.

Those numbers are nowhere near extraordinary enough to add an additional 15% of your bodyweight in fat to achieve.

291

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

You do realize he is/was a natty and he got fat to keep up the size race with his frieds who were on the sauce…Right, oh always right one??[/quote]

So he was just like me.

Your point?

Don’t get as fat as he did.

case solved.

Don’t get as fat as I did for no reason. I knew what my goal was.

292

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

I could see if the people with this opinion were the smallest ones on this board…but that isn’t the case by a long shot.[/quote]

Because the bulking up nearly killed him?[/quote]

Wouldn’t the extreme he took it to and his drug use be the issue here?

[quote]

Because that near death took his weight to below 200 (if I remember correctly)?

And because he then built back up to his current physique staying lean?[/quote]

Wow, you haven’t heard of muscle memory?

I gained 20lbs of muscle a few months back after I got the cast off my hand and could lift again.[/quote]

AH, so the part that doesn’t agree with you is what we should ignore…

293

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Agreed. I am not here to shit on anyone else’s progress…but it sure seems that is what most of these other people are here for.

I created this thread to discuss the topic I presented.

if you don’t like that topic or think it has been discussed too much, why would you post here just to say that?

No, I am not going to debate with 5-10 people all at the same time just because some of you seem to ONLY try to literally shit on anything I post lately.

Some of you are becoming straight up assholes shitting on other people’s progress.

That is not what I am here for.

To the people who thanked me, you are welcome. Post more and help change these boards from this current tripe.[/quote]

Aren’t you the guy who said once that if you werent able to bench 405 as a natural within 3 or so years of training, you weren’t cut out for lifting weights?

My point was that his progress, while good, doesn’t prove the superiority of any method because its totally within the realm of possibility for kids his age with a few years of dedicated training. FFS, I even stated as much that I wasn’t shitting on his progress. I outright said it in the first sentence of my post.

We’re talking about a slightly less than 1.5x bw bench, less than 2x bw squat, and 2.5x bw deadlift.

Those numbers are nowhere near extraordinary enough to add an additional 15% of your bodyweight in fat to achieve.

294

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow…so the same posters literally troll; this thread to death…and they make it out like I made them do it?

How is it the other board members here are not tired of this shit?[/quote]

But X, I’m gonna call you out here. You can simply choose to ignore them, instead of responding to every single post.

I actually do gain information from these “shitstorm” threads, between people like Stu, Bricknyce, and Prof, among others…

BUT ITS SUCH A DRAG to read between the bullshit.

You need to simply ignore these people you feel are purposely trying to shit on you.

(not taking sides, just speaking the truth, it needs to stop on both sides)[/quote]

Agreed. I will try to do that…but I also know that if I simply did not respond, this thread wold be filled with NO useful content right now and a bunch of guys acting like everything I write is nonsense.

Now, people can see for themselves.

[/quote]

Again, its not WHAT you are saying…it’s HOW you say it, for the 1000 time. Give your advice, and that is GREAT!

But don’t shit on other people’s advice…Which is what you do.

295

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

[/quote]

Maybe because he said himself that it was totally unhealthy, almost killed him and he now wishes that he had never done it?[/quote]

His extreme body weight and his food choices and his drug choices led to his health concerns. I also just wrote that I would’t even tell someone to get as fat as I did in the past…so what are you even arguing about?[/quote]

he is/was drug free, and prides himself on that. So drugs are out of the equation here. Just to clear that up.

296

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow…so the same posters literally troll; this thread to death…and they make it out like I made them do it?

How is it the other board members here are not tired of this shit?[/quote]

But X, I’m gonna call you out here. You can simply choose to ignore them, instead of responding to every single post.

I actually do gain information from these “shitstorm” threads, between people like Stu, Bricknyce, and Prof, among others…

BUT ITS SUCH A DRAG to read between the bullshit.

You need to simply ignore these people you feel are purposely trying to shit on you.

(not taking sides, just speaking the truth, it needs to stop on both sides)[/quote]

Agreed. I will try to do that…but I also know that if I simply did not respond, this thread wold be filled with NO useful content right now and a bunch of guys acting like everything I write is nonsense.

Now, people can see for themselves.

[/quote]

Wrong. You respond to the useful posts, to further the conversation, which you are. The bullshit posts, which you also respond to, just goes back and forth, on both sides, and clogs up the thread.

297

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This forum is all about being really big and strong…so YES, right here, the goal of most should be to stand out.

[quote]

And leaner dont forget

298

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I thought I’d say something about how you look in clothes. When you cut down on your weight you look smaller in clothes, in large part because you are wearing the same clothes, and they are looser. Once you replace your shirts and pants with clothes that fit the same way, you can look just as good in with them on, in my opinion. With clothes that aren’t loose, you can see far more back definition and can still see the v-taper with the smaller waste and broader looking shoulders. Losing a lot of weight, I used to feel smaller with my baggy shirts. But since I’ve gone back and dusted of some of my formerly too small clothing and bought some new stuff, I like the way I look in shirt and pants better than ever before. AND, importantly, so does my wife.

Now, people think I weigh more than I actually do, where before it was reversed.[/quote]

haha glad you took my advice on the pants! :smiley: [/quote]

HAH!. still working through them.

Actually, my wife loves it when I take my shirt off and I have on pants with the waist way too big.

It aint all bad…

299

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Consistency is a given for anyone above average. I would prefer to discuss what seperates the great from above average. As in what the world class powerlifter/strongman/bodybuilder (gasp!) does that the above average gym rat doesn’t. Anyone can go to the gym consistently and seperate themselves from fat people that eat cookies all day. [/quote]

But that’s not what this forum is about. It’s about the average lifter growing as a lifter. How can we really discuss this anyway?

“Well I read Ronnie does this in MenÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??s Health so that must be the secret,” do yu see what I’m saying? It’s all here say unless the pros or elite are posting themselves. Which is they are it likely would be in their respective forum. For example Stu, a well above average possibly elite bodybuilder (I don’t know much about the sport), posts most of his advice in his BB forum threads. That makes sense, so if you want to see what he is doing to set himself apart that’s where the discussion will be.

Most of us are and will always be average/slightly above average. So discussing how the pros separate themselves is not really helpful when half the people here can’t properly deadlift 300 pounds.
[/quote]

Discussing what makes the best the best can only help the average lifter get better imo. Will it make them a pro? Hell no. Doesn’t matter. A recreational golfer that wants nothing more than improve better his game a bit would look at what pro golfers do and emulate that. Why would recreational lifters be any different? [/quote]

Because golfers don’t use AAS to reach 6 under par.

I agree with you in some respects. You want to emulate the best in life, but we all know the 5X5 program the “pro” does couple with the N.O Explode he swears by is not the full story.

[/quote]

Read my post above: nattys emulate natty pro’s/raw drug tested elite PLers etc. Use common sense.[/quote]

Common sense will only take you so far. How does commons sense even apply to weight lifting? If I only used common sense I wouldn’t have ever picked a weight up, yet here I am. An outside influence is almost always the reason we do what we do. Does commons sense teach proper deadlift form?

As far as natty emulating natty, these guys might not be on AAS, but they are on every legal supp available, have top tier coaching, and top tier nutritional advice. So simply following a natty’s program is not the whole picture. That is commons sense.

Also these natty guess are sponsored by all sorts of companies. So natty guy A uses N.O. Explode commons sense says that will get me where I want to go right?

300

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I thought I’d say something about how you look in clothes. When you cut down on your weight you look smaller in clothes, in large part because you are wearing the same clothes, and they are looser. Once you replace your shirts and pants with clothes that fit the same way, you can look just as good in with them on, in my opinion. With clothes that aren’t loose, you can see far more back definition and can still see the v-taper with the smaller waste and broader looking shoulders. Losing a lot of weight, I used to feel smaller with my baggy shirts. But since I’ve gone back and dusted of some of my formerly too small clothing and bought some new stuff, I like the way I look in shirt and pants better than ever before. AND, importantly, so does my wife.

Now, people think I weigh more than I actually do, where before it was reversed.[/quote]

haha glad you took my advice on the pants! :smiley: [/quote]

HAH!. still working through them.

Actually, my wife loves it when I take my shirt off and I have on pants with the waist way too big.

It aint all bad…[/quote]

Haha! Welcome to the new world of pants, were the waist may fit, the leg my fit, but never at the same time anymore!