The Body Weight Factor

Training
261

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Discussing what makes the best the best can only help the average lifter get better imo. Will it make them a pro? Hell no. Doesn’t matter. A recreational golfer that wants nothing more than improve better his game a bit would look at what pro golfers do and emulate that. Why would recreational lifters be any different? [/quote]

It all needs to be in context…because if the approach of that pro is based almost solely on his drug routine more than anything else, then their approach isn’t something that could even be followed by most here.

[/quote]

Obvioulsy. If you are natty, emulate natty pros. Assisted? emulate assisted pros.
[/quote]

It isn’t even that simple. Even if someone plans to use steroids later, they still need that base of size and strength.

if someone is literally focusing on “staying leaner” because they think this concept alone is the take home message and not “learning to listen to the results you actually get for YOUR OWN body and act accordingly” then they will hold themselves back.

For instance, if the main reason more pros stay leaner when gaining now as opposed to 1995 because GH is now the main course meal daily, then telling every newb to look at the leanness alone is NOT how they will make the most progress.[/quote]

Who is telling newbs to look at leanness alone? I’m not even getting into this anyway… Just saying that recreational lifters that want to improve their game a bit would do well do look at the elite and emulate. Yes you can incorporate things the best do into your training routine even while working 12 hr shifts and 70 hr before anyone says that.

262

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

The question is, how many natty pros go super bulk and then cut down…if only there were natty pros on this site who could let us know??[/quote]

This forum is not about contest condition.

Why do you keep bringing that aspect up here?[/quote]

You said you wanted to look like CT Fletcher…he is in contest condition…you made the leap.

Why so angry about what you said?

263

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Agreed. I am not here to shit on anyone else’s progress…but it sure seems that is what most of these other people are here for.

I created this thread to discuss the topic I presented.

if you don’t like that topic or think it has been discussed too much, why would you post here just to say that?

No, I am not going to debate with 5-10 people all at the same time just because some of you seem to ONLY try to literally shit on anything I post lately.

Some of you are becoming straight up assholes shitting on other people’s progress.

That is not what I am here for.

To the people who thanked me, you are welcome. Post more and help change these boards from this current tripe.[/quote]

Aren’t you the guy who said once that if you werent able to bench 405 as a natural within 3 or so years of training, you weren’t cut out for lifting weights?

My point was that his progress, while good, doesn’t prove the superiority of any method because its totally within the realm of possibility for kids his age with a few years of dedicated training. FFS, I even stated as much that I wasn’t shitting on his progress. I outright said it in the first sentence of my post.

We’re talking about a slightly less than 1.5x bw bench, less than 2x bw squat, and 2.5x bw deadlift.

Those numbers are nowhere near extraordinary enough to add an additional 15% of your bodyweight in fat to achieve.

264

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

  1. I subscribe to his pages, and have heard most if not all of his interviews.

  2. You said the optimum way to grow is to put on weight, hopefully good, which puts you in the best state to grow…and not most natty pros are not bulking…they are growing lean.

  3. You said he was an example of how you “wanted to look” well…he is NOT full house, he is single digit bodyfat…not 20%

Just because you gain weight, does not mean you are growing optimum. [/quote]

My goal is not “full house”.

How would you know my exact goal without asking me? My goals change but yes, overall, looking like that would be desirable.

the point again is you have no clue how lean he is in that VIDEO aside from what you can see in his arms.

I am leaner and fatter throughout the year. Taking ONE picture at any one time will not tell you this.

265


I don’t blame you…I want to look like him too.

266

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

The question is, how many natty pros go super bulk and then cut down…if only there were natty pros on this site who could let us know??[/quote]

This forum is not about contest condition.

Why do you keep bringing that aspect up here?[/quote]

You said you wanted to look like CT Fletcher…he is in contest condition…you made the leap.

Why so angry about what you said?[/quote]

He is not in contest condition in that video.

267

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Agreed. I am not here to shit on anyone else’s progress…but it sure seems that is what most of these other people are here for.

I created this thread to discuss the topic I presented.

if you don’t like that topic or think it has been discussed too much, why would you post here just to say that?

No, I am not going to debate with 5-10 people all at the same time just because some of you seem to ONLY try to literally shit on anything I post lately.

Some of you are becoming straight up assholes shitting on other people’s progress.

That is not what I am here for.

To the people who thanked me, you are welcome. Post more and help change these boards from this current tripe.[/quote]

Aren’t you the guy who said once that if you werent able to bench 405 as a natural within 3 or so years of training, you weren’t cut out for lifting weights?

My point was that his progress, while good, doesn’t prove the superiority of any method because its totally within the realm of possibility for kids his age with a few years of dedicated training. FFS, I even stated as much that I wasn’t shitting on his progress. I outright said it in the first sentence of my post.

We’re talking about a slightly less than 1.5x bw bench, less than 2x bw squat, and 2.5x bw deadlift.

Those numbers are nowhere near extraordinary enough to add an additional 15% of your bodyweight in fat to achieve.

268

I thought I’d say something about how you look in clothes. When you cut down on your weight you look smaller in clothes, in large part because you are wearing the same clothes, and they are looser. Once you replace your shirts and pants with clothes that fit the same way, you can look just as good in with them on, in my opinion.

With clothes that aren’t loose, you can see far more back definition and can still see the v-taper with the smaller waste and broader looking shoulders. Losing a lot of weight, I used to feel smaller with my baggy shirts. But since I’ve gone back and dusted of some of my formerly too small clothing and bought some new stuff, I like the way I look in shirt and pants better than ever before. AND, importantly, so does my wife.

Now, people think I weigh more than I actually do, where before it was reversed.

269

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

  1. I subscribe to his pages, and have heard most if not all of his interviews.

  2. You said the optimum way to grow is to put on weight, hopefully good, which puts you in the best state to grow…and not most natty pros are not bulking…they are growing lean.

  3. You said he was an example of how you “wanted to look” well…he is NOT full house, he is single digit bodyfat…not 20%

Just because you gain weight, does not mean you are growing optimum. [/quote]

My goal is not “full house”.

How would you know my exact goal without asking me? My goals change but yes, overall, looking like that would be desirable.

the point again is you have no clue how lean he is in that VIDEO aside from what you can see in his arms.

I am leaner and fatter throughout the year. Taking ONE picture at any one time will not tell you this.

[/quote]

Want me to keep going?

270

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

The question is, how many natty pros go super bulk and then cut down…if only there were natty pros on this site who could let us know??[/quote]

This forum is not about contest condition.

Why do you keep bringing that aspect up here?[/quote]

You said you wanted to look like CT Fletcher…he is in contest condition…you made the leap.

Why so angry about what you said?[/quote]

He is not in contest condition in that video. [/quote]

You said this… “the point again is you have no clue how lean he is in that VIDEO aside from what you can see in his arms.”

Then you said this…“He is not in contest condition in that video.”

Which one is it?

271

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Want me to keep going?[/quote]

You can post all you wish. Until you prove he was in CONTEST SHAPE in that video, you have no point.

272

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

You said this… “the point again is you have no clue how lean he is in that VIDEO aside from what you can see in his arms.”

Then you said this…“He is not in contest condition in that video.”

Which one is it?[/quote]

? Contest condition is not even maintainable for the long term. You are saying you think he is ready for the stage in that video?

273

Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

I could see if the people with this opinion were the smallest ones on this board…but that isn’t the case by a long shot.

274

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

You said this… “the point again is you have no clue how lean he is in that VIDEO aside from what you can see in his arms.”

Then you said this…“He is not in contest condition in that video.”

Which one is it?[/quote]

? Contest condition is not even maintainable for the long term. You are saying you think he is ready for the stage in that video?
[/quote]

You said nobody could tell if he was contest ready in your first post…3 min. later you said there was NO WAY HE WAS IN CONTEST SHAPE.

Sweet jeebus man.

And for the record he says he walks around anywhere from 8-12% bodyfat year round…so he is pretty much damn near contest ready all the time.

275

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And for the record he says he walks around anywhere from 8-12% bodyfat year round…so he is pretty much damn near contest ready all the time.[/quote]

8-12% non-depleted is NOT contest condition. That would mean he doesn’t even diet down for shows. What is wrong with you?

276

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

I could see if the people with this opinion were the smallest ones on this board…but that isn’t the case by a long shot.[/quote]

Because the bulking up nearly killed him?

Because that near death took his weight to below 200 (if I remember correctly)?

And because he then built back up to his current physique staying lean?

277

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

I could see if the people with this opinion were the smallest ones on this board…but that isn’t the case by a long shot.[/quote]

mainly because he didnt look all that impressive fat. He just liked like a big strong dude with a giant belly.

278

Bulk, keep up the good work. The last two pages have some decent info and I like the vids. My guess is the same guys will jump in and troll this forum from here on out.

279

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, why would people ignore that this guy did bulk up and now is walking around impressing the shit out of people with his progress?

[/quote]

Maybe because he said himself that it was totally unhealthy, almost killed him and he now wishes that he had never done it?

280

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I thought I’d say something about how you look in clothes. When you cut down on your weight you look smaller in clothes, in large part because you are wearing the same clothes, and they are looser. Once you replace your shirts and pants with clothes that fit the same way, you can look just as good in with them on, in my opinion. With clothes that aren’t loose, you can see far more back definition and can still see the v-taper with the smaller waste and broader looking shoulders. Losing a lot of weight, I used to feel smaller with my baggy shirts. But since I’ve gone back and dusted of some of my formerly too small clothing and bought some new stuff, I like the way I look in shirt and pants better than ever before. AND, importantly, so does my wife.

Now, people think I weigh more than I actually do, where before it was reversed.[/quote]

haha glad you took my advice on the pants! :smiley: