The Body Weight Factor 2

Training
301

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

My question was why, then, would you do the same? What does the way someone looks have anything to do with their knowledge on a matter?

I assure you I can support my argument and am very willing to debate it.[/quote]

?? This is about EXPERIENCE. If you have never helped someone else get huge and never did it yourself, don’t pretend that “physiology” alone tells you how…because if it did, your MD would be the best “personal trainer”.

You supported that argument…not so well.[/quote]

And what about people who have helped others get huge but aren’t huge themselves? Would they know what their talking about despite not having the “development”? [/quote]
Dont know if you follow football ( soccer ) but there is a coach Jose Mourinho who coaches Real Madrid. As a player he was only a minor player but he is an incredible coach and his knowledge of the game is immense. Some of the best boxing coaches werent the best boxers. the best tennis coaches didnt set the game a light when they played. Lyle Mcdonald knows a hell of a lot on the subject and doesnt look like he even lifts. There are others. The list is endless. I agree with your point totally.

302

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Mr Krahn,

Now that we have hopefully cleared things up I would like to ask a you a few questions if that is ok?

Admittedly, I am not extremely familiar with your writings or training philosophy so excuse me if some of my questions sound “noobish.”

Disclaimer
Without actual body fat percentages this is purely speculation based off of one photograph and Professor X’s stated body weight of 255
End Disclaimer

What would you guesstimate his BF% at? Would you say 15% is a fairly accurate assumption based off of that single photo?

What would be your strategy to get an experienced lifter like Professor X to go from 255 pounds with 15% BF down to 10% or less BF in 8 weeks?

Thank you in advance. If any of my numbers seem off to you please feel free to correct them.

Again, this is purely speculation.[/quote]

No need for apologizing or misters, we’re all friends here.

My guess would be 15-18%, but its a guess completely out of my arse – which is why these “guess my bodyfat” threads are so painful.

You really have no idea until you start pinching (or submerging, if using a bod-pod)

For him to get sub-10% in 8 weeks (this is my opinion) would require an aggressive, fairly low (lower than he’d like) carb intake with occasional refeeds. He would get more refeeds and more carbs in general as he tightened up.

Cause he is so big I would let all that muscle burn the fat, and keep his cardio to just walking, maybe light sled work.

Dietary fat and protein would be his friend. Also a very, very good candidate for Indigo 3G.

He’d be freaky if he decided to do it. Except for the calves of course. :wink:
[/quote]

If we use your guesstimation of 15-18% and go with the benefit of the doubt and say 15%, that would mean Professor is carrying roughly 217 pounds of lean body mass. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Dieting down from those hypothetical guesstimated stats to 10% (or less) would be roughly 240 pounds? Assuming there was no lean body mass lost in the process.

240 pounds @ 10% body fat would look very impressive. I agree, it would be “freaky” on a 5’10-5’11 frame (which IIRC is Professor X’s height?)

Do you think that a roughly 2 pound pure fat loss per week for 8 weeks straight is an achievable goal for an intermediate to advanced lifter like Professor X?

Thank you for your helpful insight, hypothetically speaking of course ;)[/quote]

No way PX can diet to an actual 240 lbs 10% bodyfat natural. I will have to see it to believe it. 10 % is abs and serratus showing with definition in the legs etc. and not too far off from contest condition. Sorry.

I am not trying to shit on Professor X here believe me. He has built a solid physique for the most part. But 240 10% would blow pretty much every natty bber ever at his height out of the water. [/quote]

10% is no where near contest shape – unless you want to finish in last place.

10% is lean, average, athletic male – visible linea alba (not “in the right light abs”) and usually some clear definition. That’s it.

Basically, for most guys, this is the cut-off from when dieting is relatively painless (if monotonous) and hard/frustrating/life sucking.

Most guys would need at least 8-12 weeks from the 10% point to get winning-shredded.

This, of course, assumes a normal response to dieting (X ain’t Dexter Jackson) and having been there before (makes a difference).

I was perhaps a little generous when I said 15% – remember what I said about internet bodyfat estimates being retarded? – as he is more than likely closer to 18%. But again, this all depends on the percentage formula used. (I always use a 12 site formula.)

Your “no way if natural” argument is a red herring – whether or not drugs are used wasn’t part of the discussion.

303

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Mr Krahn,

Now that we have hopefully cleared things up I would like to ask a you a few questions if that is ok?

Admittedly, I am not extremely familiar with your writings or training philosophy so excuse me if some of my questions sound “noobish.”

Disclaimer
Without actual body fat percentages this is purely speculation based off of one photograph and Professor X’s stated body weight of 255
End Disclaimer

What would you guesstimate his BF% at? Would you say 15% is a fairly accurate assumption based off of that single photo?

What would be your strategy to get an experienced lifter like Professor X to go from 255 pounds with 15% BF down to 10% or less BF in 8 weeks?

Thank you in advance. If any of my numbers seem off to you please feel free to correct them.

Again, this is purely speculation.[/quote]

No need for apologizing or misters, we’re all friends here.

My guess would be 15-18%, but its a guess completely out of my arse – which is why these “guess my bodyfat” threads are so painful.

You really have no idea until you start pinching (or submerging, if using a bod-pod)

For him to get sub-10% in 8 weeks (this is my opinion) would require an aggressive, fairly low (lower than he’d like) carb intake with occasional refeeds. He would get more refeeds and more carbs in general as he tightened up.

Cause he is so big I would let all that muscle burn the fat, and keep his cardio to just walking, maybe light sled work.

Dietary fat and protein would be his friend. Also a very, very good candidate for Indigo 3G.

He’d be freaky if he decided to do it. Except for the calves of course. :wink:
[/quote]

If we use your guesstimation of 15-18% and go with the benefit of the doubt and say 15%, that would mean Professor is carrying roughly 217 pounds of lean body mass. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Dieting down from those hypothetical guesstimated stats to 10% (or less) would be roughly 240 pounds? Assuming there was no lean body mass lost in the process.

240 pounds @ 10% body fat would look very impressive. I agree, it would be “freaky” on a 5’10-5’11 frame (which IIRC is Professor X’s height?)

Do you think that a roughly 2 pound pure fat loss per week for 8 weeks straight is an achievable goal for an intermediate to advanced lifter like Professor X?

Thank you for your helpful insight, hypothetically speaking of course ;)[/quote]

No way PX can diet to an actual 240 lbs 10% bodyfat natural. I will have to see it to believe it. 10 % is abs and serratus showing with definition in the legs etc. and not too far off from contest condition. Sorry.

I am not trying to shit on Professor X here believe me. He has built a solid physique for the most part. But 240 10% would blow pretty much every natty bber ever at his height out of the water. [/quote]

I agree with this. Most guys are 5 to 7% onstage. I also can’t see how he could be 240 at 10% natural particularly because of his lower body. I think he’d have to be closer to 200 to be 10%.

304

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
I was perhaps a little generous when I said 15% – remember what I said about internet bodyfat estimates being retarded? – as he is more than likely closer to 18%. But again, this all depends on the percentage formula used. (I always use a 12 site formula.)

[/quote]

So if it’s retarded, then why do you keep doing it? It’s admittedly “retarded” yet, now he isn’t 15, but closer to 18? Lol - aren’t you just doing the same “retarded” guessing?

Just admit that there is no way to accurately determine someone’s actual, real-world, no bullshit BF % from a photo on the Internet and stop lending credence to this clown’s ludicrous claims…

305

how would doing curls and kickbacks between sets drop pounds of fat?

I’ve done calf raises and pullups in between sets of other bodyparts, but never noticed any fat loss from that.

306


So, what’s my bodyfat? How many weeks out am I?

Bulk or cut?

Am I holding back my progress being too lean?

Trololol…

307

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

So if it’s retarded, then why do you keep doing it? It’s admittedly “retarded” yet, now he isn’t 15, but closer to 18? Lol - aren’t you just doing the same “retarded” guessing?

Just admit that there is no way to accurately determine someone’s actual, real-world, no bullshit BF % from a photo on the Internet and stop lending credence to this clown’s ludicrous claims… [/quote]

Ha! I suppose I am – good catch!

However, I’m just indulging in a discussion amigo, not trying to right some almighty wrong.

And I don’t follow you – who’s a clown and which ludicrous claim am I giving credence to?

308

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

So if it’s retarded, then why do you keep doing it? It’s admittedly “retarded” yet, now he isn’t 15, but closer to 18? Lol - aren’t you just doing the same “retarded” guessing?

Just admit that there is no way to accurately determine someone’s actual, real-world, no bullshit BF % from a photo on the Internet and stop lending credence to this clown’s ludicrous claims… [/quote]

Ha! I suppose I am – good catch!

However, I’m just indulging in a discussion amigo, not trying to right some almighty wrong.

And I don’t follow you – who’s a clown and which ludicrous claim am I giving credence to?
[/quote]

For future reference: SkyNett only makes posts about Professor X, so if you are ever unsure who/what/why he is going on about, just assume it is him and you’ll be good to go.

309

[quote]steven alex wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

My question was why, then, would you do the same? What does the way someone looks have anything to do with their knowledge on a matter?

I assure you I can support my argument and am very willing to debate it.[/quote]

?? This is about EXPERIENCE. If you have never helped someone else get huge and never did it yourself, don’t pretend that “physiology” alone tells you how…because if it did, your MD would be the best “personal trainer”.

You supported that argument…not so well.[/quote]

And what about people who have helped others get huge but aren’t huge themselves? Would they know what their talking about despite not having the “development”? [/quote]
Dont know if you follow football ( soccer ) but there is a coach Jose Mourinho who coaches Real Madrid. As a player he was only a minor player but he is an incredible coach and his knowledge of the game is immense. Some of the best boxing coaches werent the best boxers. the best tennis coaches didnt set the game a light when they played. Lyle Mcdonald knows a hell of a lot on the subject and doesnt look like he even lifts. There are others. The list is endless. I agree with your point totally. [/quote]

Right on!

310

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So, what’s my bodyfat? How many weeks out am I?

Bulk or cut?

Am I holding back my progress being too lean?

Trololol…[/quote]
You’re around 35% bf. Probably only a week or two out of contest shape if you start eating only hot pockets.

You definitely need to bulk though.

You’re destroying your progress. What you need to do is start eating pizza until you’re around 240, then immediately go to the gym and bench over 4 plates. Then you’ll be strong again.

You’re welcome.

311

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So, what’s my bodyfat? How many weeks out am I?

Bulk or cut?

Am I holding back my progress being too lean?

Trololol…[/quote]
You’re around 35% bf. Probably only a week or two out of contest shape if you start eating only hot pockets.

You definitely need to bulk though.

You’re destroying your progress. What you need to do is start eating pizza until you’re around 240, then immediately go to the gym and bench over 4 plates. Then you’ll be strong again.

You’re welcome.[/quote]

Best Jest Post

312

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Mr Krahn,

Now that we have hopefully cleared things up I would like to ask a you a few questions if that is ok?

Admittedly, I am not extremely familiar with your writings or training philosophy so excuse me if some of my questions sound “noobish.”

Disclaimer
Without actual body fat percentages this is purely speculation based off of one photograph and Professor X’s stated body weight of 255
End Disclaimer

What would you guesstimate his BF% at? Would you say 15% is a fairly accurate assumption based off of that single photo?

What would be your strategy to get an experienced lifter like Professor X to go from 255 pounds with 15% BF down to 10% or less BF in 8 weeks?

Thank you in advance. If any of my numbers seem off to you please feel free to correct them.

Again, this is purely speculation.[/quote]

No need for apologizing or misters, we’re all friends here.

My guess would be 15-18%, but its a guess completely out of my arse – which is why these “guess my bodyfat” threads are so painful.

You really have no idea until you start pinching (or submerging, if using a bod-pod)

For him to get sub-10% in 8 weeks (this is my opinion) would require an aggressive, fairly low (lower than he’d like) carb intake with occasional refeeds. He would get more refeeds and more carbs in general as he tightened up.

Cause he is so big I would let all that muscle burn the fat, and keep his cardio to just walking, maybe light sled work.

Dietary fat and protein would be his friend. Also a very, very good candidate for Indigo 3G.

He’d be freaky if he decided to do it. Except for the calves of course. :wink:
[/quote]

Thank you for keeping this thread on track and clearing up the nonsense.

And yeah…still working on the calves. Thanks for the compliment.

313

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

10% is no where near contest shape – unless you want to finish in last place.

10% is lean, average, athletic male – visible linea alba (not “in the right light abs”) and usually some clear definition. That’s it.

Basically, for most guys, this is the cut-off from when dieting is relatively painless (if monotonous) and hard/frustrating/life sucking.

Most guys would need at least 8-12 weeks from the 10% point to get winning-shredded.

This, of course, assumes a normal response to dieting (X ain’t Dexter Jackson) and having been there before (makes a difference).

I was perhaps a little generous when I said 15% – remember what I said about internet bodyfat estimates being retarded? – as he is more than likely closer to 18%. But again, this all depends on the percentage formula used. (I always use a 12 site formula.)

Your “no way if natural” argument is a red herring – whether or not drugs are used wasn’t part of the discussion. [/quote]

Best post.

And again, the whole point of the thread was that if your goal is extreme muscular size, there may be some period of time where you do not look ideal. For people to jump in and argue that because I was carrying more fat in the past that means I did it wrong doesn’t make sense. How I did it is one of the reasons I got to this size…which is the same thing me and heavythrower were discussing.

314

For what it’s worth, one of my biggest regrets in life (apart from not sleeping with an Asian swimsuit model when I was 21, cause I had a girlfriend), is not having sucked it up and spent 5 good years bulking.

I always tried to stay “fairly lean”, which I realize now is “fairly small” if you don’t already have a good base.

Of course, today at 40 I’m not sure how much my joints would like being 240 (they already ache at 220) but I’d still liked to have found out.

I could still bulk up now of course, but life changes, priorities change…but maybe next fall. Who knows!

315

[quote]Professor X wrote:
For people to jump in and argue that because I was carrying more fat in the past that means I did it wrong doesn’t make sense.[/quote]

That was an assumption you made. You know, after people started saying that the body builds muscle more efficiently in a leaner state? It was obvious you took it as a personal attack on your own approach. then proceeded to shout down anyone who suggested it, using your own swole self as proof they were were wrong.

316

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

So if it’s retarded, then why do you keep doing it? It’s admittedly “retarded” yet, now he isn’t 15, but closer to 18? Lol - aren’t you just doing the same “retarded” guessing?

Just admit that there is no way to accurately determine someone’s actual, real-world, no bullshit BF % from a photo on the Internet and stop lending credence to this clown’s ludicrous claims… [/quote]

Ha! I suppose I am – good catch!

However, I’m just indulging in a discussion amigo, not trying to right some almighty wrong.

And I don’t follow you – who’s a clown and which ludicrous claim am I giving credence to?
[/quote]

Was there a true response to this?

What ludicrous claim did he give credence to?

317

[quote]cueball wrote:
You know, after people started saying that the body builds muscle more efficiently in a leaner state?
[/quote]

Do me a favor, give your usual “follow me around and yelp” thing a rest for a second and look at what you just wrote.

Look at it.

I came into a thread and said, “where is the evidence that small body fat changes alone somehow effect insulin sensitivity outside of any other factors and EXCLUDING obesity in people who train regularly”.

That is how science works…people ask questions or else people still believe in magic.

No one has provided any proof that the statement or question is invalid.

You are upset because I want to find the truth and not just fall in line and believe what the “group” does?

318

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
For what it’s worth, one of my biggest regrets in life (apart from not sleeping with an Asian swimsuit model when I was 21, cause I had a girlfriend), is not having sucked it up and spent 5 good years bulking.

I always tried to stay “fairly lean”, which I realize now is “fairly small” if you don’t already have a good base.

Of course, today at 40 I’m not sure how much my joints would like being 240 (they already ache at 220) but I’d still liked to have found out.

I could still bulk up now of course, but life changes, priorities change…but maybe next fall. Who knows! [/quote]

I hear this from a lot of guys…that is why it makes me wonder why so many now believe they have so long to build all of that muscle.

Your body recovers faster under the age of 35 (for most people). That includes tendons as well (which can recover up to 4 times slower the older you get) which alone can limit how fast your recover and how fast you grow from what you do in the gym.

I came here to discuss that…but as you can see, I can’t because I get shouted down by the same people each and every time I respond at all about anything…

319

Just think of all the chickens… Really. How many chickens have died in order for you to build muscle, thousands? How many lives have you ended in your quest for muscle growth? Being fat means those chickens died in vain. They died so you can have bigger muscles but nobody can see them… dont let their sacrifice be for not…

Fuck the pigs though. They deserved it.

320

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Mr Krahn,

Now that we have hopefully cleared things up I would like to ask a you a few questions if that is ok?

Admittedly, I am not extremely familiar with your writings or training philosophy so excuse me if some of my questions sound “noobish.”

Disclaimer
Without actual body fat percentages this is purely speculation based off of one photograph and Professor X’s stated body weight of 255
End Disclaimer

What would you guesstimate his BF% at? Would you say 15% is a fairly accurate assumption based off of that single photo?

What would be your strategy to get an experienced lifter like Professor X to go from 255 pounds with 15% BF down to 10% or less BF in 8 weeks?

Thank you in advance. If any of my numbers seem off to you please feel free to correct them.

Again, this is purely speculation.[/quote]

No need for apologizing or misters, we’re all friends here.

My guess would be 15-18%, but its a guess completely out of my arse – which is why these “guess my bodyfat” threads are so painful.

You really have no idea until you start pinching (or submerging, if using a bod-pod)

For him to get sub-10% in 8 weeks (this is my opinion) would require an aggressive, fairly low (lower than he’d like) carb intake with occasional refeeds. He would get more refeeds and more carbs in general as he tightened up.

Cause he is so big I would let all that muscle burn the fat, and keep his cardio to just walking, maybe light sled work.

Dietary fat and protein would be his friend. Also a very, very good candidate for Indigo 3G.

He’d be freaky if he decided to do it. Except for the calves of course. :wink:
[/quote]

If we use your guesstimation of 15-18% and go with the benefit of the doubt and say 15%, that would mean Professor is carrying roughly 217 pounds of lean body mass. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Dieting down from those hypothetical guesstimated stats to 10% (or less) would be roughly 240 pounds? Assuming there was no lean body mass lost in the process.

240 pounds @ 10% body fat would look very impressive. I agree, it would be “freaky” on a 5’10-5’11 frame (which IIRC is Professor X’s height?)

Do you think that a roughly 2 pound pure fat loss per week for 8 weeks straight is an achievable goal for an intermediate to advanced lifter like Professor X?

Thank you for your helpful insight, hypothetically speaking of course ;)[/quote]

No way PX can diet to an actual 240 lbs 10% bodyfat natural. I will have to see it to believe it. 10 % is abs and serratus showing with definition in the legs etc. and not too far off from contest condition. Sorry.

I am not trying to shit on Professor X here believe me. He has built a solid physique for the most part. But 240 10% would blow pretty much every natty bber ever at his height out of the water. [/quote]

I agree with this. Most guys are 5 to 7% onstage. I also can’t see how he could be 240 at 10% natural particularly because of his lower body. I think he’d have to be closer to 200 to be 10%.
[/quote]

I think this is where the main disagreement here is. We all agree that there are times when putting on a little extra fat is necessarry to gain muscle. But for someone natty of average height with physique oriented goals (big and lean) there is no reason to get to 300 lbs. You could hold the “set point” of 300 pounds as long as you like, you would still be extremely lucky to get down to 200lbs 10% or less.

why would anyone with a goal of being really big and really lean want to put themselves in a situation where they have to lose 100 POUNDS to reach that goal?