Coach.
In this article: “The biggesttraining lie”
You argue that during the first 4 weeks the only gains that will be neuronal. With what my limited English allowed me to understand this in the first 4 weeks applies to a program where the exercises will vary according to the day. But a program like: “Build for bad: strength circuits” In the same exercises performed for 5 days in a row would not be possible that neural adaptations come before?
Actually the neural gains will come FASTER by training on the same movements everyday. Since they come faster, the body will need to resort to building muscle sooner so during a 6 weeks cycle you’ll spend more time building muscle to adapt because you aren’t relying on neural adaptations for as long.
When you get faster neuronal adaptations, also faster muscle gains are obtained. I think I understand, thanks coach.
[quote]M.23 wrote:
When you get faster neuronal adaptations, also faster muscle gains are obtained. I think I understand, thanks coach.[/quote]
No… well, not directly.
The body wants to adapt with the less expense/effort possible. Building muscle is a big effort because you have to construct something new. Improving neural efficiency is not a big effort because you only need to reprogram what’s already there.
So if neural gains are enough to adapt to the training you are doing, the body will always choose to improve the nervous system instead of building muscle.
When you run out of quick neural gains, the body is now forced to build muscle to adapt.
I love you Thib, you’re the best!
[quote]pitaaaaa wrote:
I love you Thib, you’re the best![/quote]
Let’s not get carried away 
You’re right, I got excited.
Thib … Let’s get real, I have a monster crush on you and my opinion is completely biased (although undoubtedly accurate).
Ok, I feel better about this now.
[quote]pitaaaaa wrote:
You’re right, I got excited.
Thib … Let’s get real, I have a monster crush on you and my opinion is completely biased (although undoubtedly accurate).
Ok, I feel better about this now.[/quote]
There is literally no correct reply to this
Hahahahaha! Correct!
What if you tend not to build muscle bulk. So for example, lots of women don’t - yet we can get very strong without noticeable increase in muscle size. I’m assuming that means that we get all of/most of our strength from neural adaptation?
In which case, should we be changing our training frequently to maximize neural adaptation (and therefore maximize strength gains)?
[quote]susani wrote:
What if you tend not to build muscle bulk. So for example, lots of women don’t - yet we can get very strong without noticeable increase in muscle size. I’m assuming that means that we get all of/most of our strength from neural adaptation?
In which case, should we be changing our training frequently to maximize neural adaptation (and therefore maximize strength gains)?
[/quote]
I think that several things are involved:
Most women have already the muscle to be much stronger than they are. But unless they have a strong background in athletics, they are not as efficient at using their muscles as men. So they do have a lot more potential for neural adaptations to strength training.
While they will not build as much muscle as men, do not underestimate muscle gain as a factor in strength gains. The thing is that guys who want to build a lot of muscle tend to go on a bulking diet, gaining a lot of fat and water in the process. So while the scale might go up a lot, the amount of muscle they are adding isn’t that high. On the other hand women rarely go on a bulking phase. So they do not have the sudden surge in size and weight increase. But they might add just as much muscle tissue as guys.
As far as looks are concerned, women do not need to gain the same amount of muscle weight to have a visual effect. One of my figure girls added only 2lbs between contests but she looked like a different person. Smaller bone structure/frame make it easier to get the illusion of adding a lot of muscle.
Thank you.
Just one more question then. If your goal is to maximize relative strength I figure it makes sense to get as much out of neural adaptation as possible before training to build muscle? So maybe explosive movement, use of gymnastic rings etc, very heavy weighted movements (couple of reps) and very small sets spread throughout the day (greasing the groove). Then when that stalls try training for bigger sets to get muscle growth?
Sorry - more questions popping into my head!!! Just ignore if I’m asking too much. Somewhere I read recently you talked about muscle fiber type and how type IIa fibers are the ones that produce mass/bulk, and type IIb produce strength. I know my goals are back to front from what you’re used to, but for someone wanting relative strength for things like gymnastics you want to be targeting the type IIa fibers for raw strength and training the IIb fibers to get them to adapt to act like type I fibers (endurance). Because I’m thinking if you make them act more like slow twitch fibers they won’t increase in size? So you get strength and endurance without too much extra bodyweight. Or am I completely misunderstanding this? Maybe it’s not even possible to target the fibers in this way?
Fat levels are going down and weight is creeping up so bodyweight training is building quite a bit of muscle - I’d like to train to maximize relative strength.
[quote]susani wrote:
Thank you.
Just one more question then. If your goal is to maximize relative strength I figure it makes sense to get as much out of neural adaptation as possible before training to build muscle? So maybe explosive movement, use of gymnastic rings etc, very heavy weighted movements (couple of reps) and very small sets spread throughout the day (greasing the groove). Then when that stalls try training for bigger sets to get muscle growth? [/quote]
All correct, but you don’t have to do all that at once. For example:
RELATIVE STRENGTH
PHASE 1 - SKILL DOMINANT
Emphasis on jumps, throws, ring work if you are able to, body weight exercises shooting for an increase in difficulty (e.g. working toward a handstand push-up or toward ring dips).
Introduction of the simpler variations of the olympic lifts (power clean from hang, power snatch from hang, push press) for 5 sets of 2-3 reps (submaximal focusing on speed).
Minimalist strength work (try to build overall strength using as few movements as possible… something like deadlift and bench press for example since you will be hitting the other muscles with the previous work anyways). Training in the 80-90% range with sets of 1-3 reps for a total of 10-15 reps per workout.
Conditioning via short sprints/acceleration work (30 meters per sprint) once or twice a week.
PHASE 2 - POWER DOMINANT
Emphasis on loaded jumps (jump squats with 20-30% of max squat, jump lunges with 10-15% of max squat), simpler variations of the olympic lifts (same as prior phase) with heavier loading, can also include speed variations of the squat and bench (45-55% of max for 8-10 sets of 3 lifted with maximum speed).
Increase the amount of basic strength exercises. Increase strength work to 3-4 exercises per week (e.g. deadlift, front squat, bench press, barbell row) still training in the 80-90% range for 10-15 total reps per exercise per session. Note that I prefer that each strength movement is hit at least twice a week. Take that into consideration when designing a routine.
Maintenance of the skills acquires in phase 1 (lowest volume necessary to maintain level)
Conditioning via maximum speed work (sprints of about 60 meters)
PHASE 3 - STRENGTH DOMINANT
Emphasis on getting a lot stronger on the big basics. 4-6 strength movements per week (deadlift, front squat, bench press, barbell row, military press, back squat) done in the 90-100% range for 7-12 total reps per exercise in a session. Again, I prefer that each movement be trained at least twice a week.
Introduction of more complex olympic lifts via the use of complexes:
Maintenance of the acquired bodyweight skills via minimal volume.
Conditioning via speed maintenance work (100-150 meter sprints)
[quote]susani wrote:
Sorry - more questions popping into my head!!! Just ignore if I’m asking too much. Somewhere I read recently you talked about muscle fiber type and how type IIa fibers are the ones that produce mass/bulk, and type IIb produce strength. I know my goals are back to front from what you’re used to, but for someone wanting relative strength for things like gymnastics you want to be targeting the type IIa fibers for raw strength and training the IIb fibers to get them to adapt to act like type I fibers (endurance). Because I’m thinking if you make them act more like slow twitch fibers they won’t increase in size? So you get strength and endurance without too much extra bodyweight. Or am I completely misunderstanding this? Maybe it’s not even possible to target the fibers in this way?
Fat levels are going down and weight is creeping up so bodyweight training is building quite a bit of muscle - I’d like to train to maximize relative strength. [/quote]
Don’t think about fiber targeting. It shouldn’t really influence your training. just focus on the type of work. With bodyweight training, understand that if a set lasts over 15-20 seconds it WILL build muscle mass. For relative strength gains you should shoot for sets lasting 12 seconds or less. Pick skills that are challenging for sets of less than 12, ideally less than 9 sec.
IMPORTANT: If you want minimal size gains you can change the strength exercises every 2 weeks. Stay with the basics, but you can use different variations.
I can’t thank you enough for this! I’m quite pleased to discover that i’m roughly in the right ball park, but trying to hit both ends of what you describe at once and struggling to fit it all in. So spinning plates a bit!! This will let me work out a plan I can have confidence in and give me some direction.
It’d be awesome if you could squeeze in some articles about this type of thing at some point. Bodyweight training (calesthincs, street workout - pole sport even) are getting so popular now. I think it could benefit from input from people with your knowledge and experience of traditional strength training. A different angle on things than we get from the people driving these sports!
Thank you again for taking the time for such an indepth response.
Last question - I promise!!
I want to get good at 1RM AND max reps for pullups. That’s my primary goal at the moment - to go as far as is humanly possible with that. I train them 3 x per week.
To stay out of that ‘mass building zone’ what if I spend two days on pullup strength/power/skill (whatever phase I’m in) and 1 day working from the endurance end. So I believe anything over 20 reps is pure endurance (no/little mass increase) so if I use resistance bands, lat pulldowns, pullup assistance machine (whatever feels most like a perfect form pullup) to get me at a weight where I can manage 20. And gradually reduce the assistance until I’m doing 20 at bodyweight? By which time my 1RM should be pretty high too?
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