The Art of Business

Off Topic
41

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
hedo wrote:

I also wouldn’t discount the fact that your stage of life has a lot to do iwth how your feeling. I don’t think what your are talking about is uncommon for a later 20’s earaly 30’s professional to be experiencing. You have one foot in each world so to speak. I don’t have to tell you your next step is more likely into their world.

Not for me. The path that most of my elder coworkers have taken is not the path I intend on taking.

Besides, judging from the initial post, this is not so much about age, but rather about a gap running through all age groups and given the fact that people who think like most of the regulars on this site are a minority, I don’t think many of us stand a good chance of “aging” into the world of the majority without a conscious effort and probably the elimination of significant character traits.[/quote]

I have to agree here. I don’t plan on following the path that most people go down with regards to “aging”. I do appreciate most of the responses in this thread, however.

I will say I have considered just starting my own practice, however, I have no desire to go through that initial start up period when doing so from scratch. I do think that is the only way I will ever truly be happy, the point at which I am completely my own boss.

I just hate playing games when it isn’t what I truly feel. I know how to play…I just don’t like the game.

When I am around people who are truly decent and bright, I truly look for the best in them. I could carry on a conversation for days if I needed to. However, when around an idiot or someone who I just don’t connect with, I have a very hard time not showing it.

Either way, this thread went better than I thought it would.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I could carry on a conversation for days if I needed to. However, when around an idiot or someone who I just don’t connect with, I have a very hard time not showing it.[/quote]

Now I know why you dont return any of my PM’s! :frowning:

43

[quote]PGA wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I could carry on a conversation for days if I needed to. However, when around an idiot or someone who I just don’t connect with, I have a very hard time not showing it.

Now I know why you dont return any of my PM’s! :-([/quote]

You come over, you eat all of my food, kick my dog, and scratched up my brand new Justice League video game…and you wonder why I don’t return pm’s?

It’s cause I’m black, isn’t it?

44

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It’s cause I’m black, isn’t it?[/quote]

WTF! You told me to bulk more then you complain when I eat all of your food! You always give me shit when I’m there. Never fails.

So I ask you this, its becaues I’m black, isn’t it?

45

[quote]bretc wrote:

That being said, I don’t think that this is what the Professor is getting at. He can “fake” it and pull off a good social outing, but it leaves a sour taste in his mouth afterward because it’s phony.
[/quote]

But the book doesn’t suggest that one be “fake”. That was my point; learn to take a genuine interest and you won’t have to compromise yourself. Others will appreciate your sincerity. Most people can tell when you’re putting on an act.

46

Some of it is just taking a genuine interest in finding out about other people.

I remember reading an article in SI many, many years ago on why Magic Johnson was such a media presence and a big success while Kareem Abdul Jabbar didn’t seem as interesting to people. Kareem was arguably a better player (though it was an argument), they were both on the same big-market team, etc., etc.

The author said the difference between the two boiled down to this: When you asked Kareem how he was doing, he would answer: “Fine, thanks.” When you asked Magic how he was doing, he would answer, “Pretty good. How are you?”

47

I say, goddamn…

You hit it on the head for me, X. The only difference is I’ve already went Rainjack’s way and just stopped caring.

Though I never had to do it at work because of the nature of my job, I’ve used to try to put on a facade quite a few times. Most of the times it’s with the girlfriend’s family or some similar situation…but I gave up.

I could never pretend to give a flying fuck about what happened to who at their church or whatever, and eventually I just lost patience. being as I really tend to wear my feelings on my sleeve, I could rarely hide my dissatisfaction or boredom…so I stopped going to the barbecues and all that. It didn’t really matter to my girlfriend, and both of us were better off.

You can’t fake who you are, and if you’re trying, then you’re wasting minutes of your life you’ll never get back.

The truly funny thing is, when you get to this point where you just don’t care, people start appreciating you way more than they did before…you get to be known as “no bullshit” or “straightforward”…which makes a far better impression on other people (my opinion, of course).

Good luck X.

48

What does a person do in order to be a success at this when they relate to an entirely different spectrum of pop culture? I hate pretend.

People are not so diiferent even though they come from different generations. I listen to NIN, New Order, Jane Addiction, Metallica etc., when I am in the car. When I meet with a client we are not talking music or the fact that I mountain bike, lift weights, like Lost, and enjoy internet porn. I can however enjoy a conversation with anyone despite age, cultural, or social differences. When you are in a business situation stick to the basics ie) current events, weather, the business at hand. You may like hip hop but that is irrelevant. You don’t have to think people are cool to do business with them.

49

X

I think most of us in the 30’s age range probably deal with exactly what you are experiencing wrt our professional lives (I’m the only person under 50yrs old in my field in SC, NC, and FL. There are 1 or 2 in GA in their 40’s, so I feel you).
I’m sure the generation before us went through this same struggle as will the generation that follows us.
I think you’ve already gotten the best advice (be yourself and don’t try to “fake it”) from most of the other posters on this thread. I think you will be surprised at how accepting the “old guard” is of this. They were once in your shoes, just different differences. Remember, Big Band music was once “rebellious”, as were Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett. The 30-somethings at that time were considered whippersnappers by the old guard at the time, but proved their worth and earned respect by showing their knowlege and professionalism.

The biggest problem is that “work” is usually the only common ground that you will share with them, hence “shop talk” will be the topic at most corporate outings (but you only HAVE to hang out with them there, you’ll have your buddies outside of work to satisfy the need to converse about stuff you like (and us T-Nationites)).

50

I have no advice to give. After reading through this thread, it makes me thankful to work in academia. The pay sucks, but it’s the only place where my eccentricities are tolerated.

51

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
hedo wrote:

I also wouldn’t discount the fact that your stage of life has a lot to do iwth how your feeling. I don’t think what your are talking about is uncommon for a later 20’s earaly 30’s professional to be experiencing. You have one foot in each world so to speak. I don’t have to tell you your next step is more likely into their world.

Not for me. The path that most of my elder coworkers have taken is not the path I intend on taking.

Besides, judging from the initial post, this is not so much about age, but rather about a gap running through all age groups and given the fact that people who think like most of the regulars on this site are a minority, I don’t think many of us stand a good chance of “aging” into the world of the majority without a conscious effort and probably the elimination of significant character traits.[/quote]

Physically yes you may be right. The responsibilities one assumes as the age are a shared experience that binds you together. Unless you plan is to remain unencumbered by a family, posessions and a career.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
hedo wrote:

I also wouldn’t discount the fact that your stage of life has a lot to do iwth how your feeling. I don’t think what your are talking about is uncommon for a later 20’s earaly 30’s professional to be experiencing. You have one foot in each world so to speak. I don’t have to tell you your next step is more likely into their world.

Not for me. The path that most of my elder coworkers have taken is not the path I intend on taking.

Besides, judging from the initial post, this is not so much about age, but rather about a gap running through all age groups and given the fact that people who think like most of the regulars on this site are a minority, I don’t think many of us stand a good chance of “aging” into the world of the majority without a conscious effort and probably the elimination of significant character traits.

I have to agree here. I don’t plan on following the path that most people go down with regards to “aging”. I do appreciate most of the responses in this thread, however.

I will say I have considered just starting my own practice, however, I have no desire to go through that initial start up period when doing so from scratch. I do think that is the only way I will ever truly be happy, the point at which I am completely my own boss.

I just hate playing games when it isn’t what I truly feel. I know how to play…I just don’t like the game.

When I am around people who are truly decent and bright, I truly look for the best in them. I could carry on a conversation for days if I needed to. However, when around an idiot or someone who I just don’t connect with, I have a very hard time not showing it.

Either way, this thread went better than I thought it would.[/quote]

X why don’t you look at buying an exisitng practice. I bought my business, didn’t build it from scratch. Just made it better and bigger over time, better first.

Your chance of success is much better with a going concern then a start up in most cases. Less effort and capital too. My two cents. Good Luck either way.

53

What you need to do is come back after a year of hardcore office bullshitting and show us your progress. You are going to have to listen to a lot of bullshitting and you may even acquire a little bullshit yourself but that is the only way to be successful.

I’m sick of all these people that have only been dealing in bullshit for a year and think they are experts. What you need to do is consistently submerge yourself in the bullshit as much as possible.

Sorry, that wasn’t better, my funny bone is broken today :frowning:

54

[quote]TYR wrote:
As elitist as it may sound, I just assume I’m better than my co-workers because I understand both “worlds”.

I am very well spoken and professional at work which allows me to excel there. When I am done though, I crank my stereo in the car (punk not hiphop), play ps2 at home and lift heavy before bed.

I feel this gives me the best of both worlds (dynamic no fear guy and quiet professional guy) that most others just don’t get.

Not to get all philosophical here but, I take a real, genuine interest in what my co-workers tell me. I really want them to be the best they can. This allows me to not put on a phony smile or fake interest. I just don’t agree w/ their outlook on life for the most part, which is quite alright.

From your postings, and what others here say about you, you seem like a real smart guy with a pretty good take on things. Use the time w/ them to influence promotions or at least as fuel to set PR’s when under the bar. It works for me.[/quote]

Couldn’t have said it any better.

I can relate in alot of what X says, but in alot of different ways.

Still, it basically comes down to this. Your always going to have to play politics, at least to an extent, in the work force. Its part of the game.

55

[quote]hedo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
hedo wrote:

I also wouldn’t discount the fact that your stage of life has a lot to do iwth how your feeling. I don’t think what your are talking about is uncommon for a later 20’s earaly 30’s professional to be experiencing. You have one foot in each world so to speak. I don’t have to tell you your next step is more likely into their world.

Not for me. The path that most of my elder coworkers have taken is not the path I intend on taking.

Besides, judging from the initial post, this is not so much about age, but rather about a gap running through all age groups and given the fact that people who think like most of the regulars on this site are a minority, I don’t think many of us stand a good chance of “aging” into the world of the majority without a conscious effort and probably the elimination of significant character traits.

I have to agree here. I don’t plan on following the path that most people go down with regards to “aging”. I do appreciate most of the responses in this thread, however.

I will say I have considered just starting my own practice, however, I have no desire to go through that initial start up period when doing so from scratch. I do think that is the only way I will ever truly be happy, the point at which I am completely my own boss.

I just hate playing games when it isn’t what I truly feel. I know how to play…I just don’t like the game.

When I am around people who are truly decent and bright, I truly look for the best in them. I could carry on a conversation for days if I needed to. However, when around an idiot or someone who I just don’t connect with, I have a very hard time not showing it.

Either way, this thread went better than I thought it would.

X why don’t you look at buying an exisitng practice. I bought my business, didn’t build it from scratch. Just made it better and bigger over time, better first.

Your chance of success is much better with a going concern then a start up in most cases. Less effort and capital too. My two cents. Good Luck either way.

[/quote]

Thats exactly what my sister in law did. She got sick of all the BS that comes with working in a hospital. She and two other partners now have there own practice, and she couldn’t be happier.

56

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m not anti-social, I just hate fake smiles, false good mornings and long conversations about shit that I truly don’t care about just to have lunch with people I would never actually hang out with casually. No less, I am finding myself in situations where this is becoming a necessity and I feel…what’s the term…like a fish out of water.

I listen to Hip-Hop music, dress in tank tops when casual and like to lift heavy objects. While movies and video games may spark a conversation with me, when faced with a 50+ year old group of professionals at a “work lunch” or even one working as part of an interview process, I get the feeling that my conversation will be less than lively.

What do some of you do in situations like this? Mentally, though I know how to act in professional settings, I still laugh at bathroom humor and would rather watch Family Guy than read the Wallstreet Journal. I doubt these guys are listening to P. Diddy and Ludacris on the way to work in the mornings and I am positive they aren’t pulling out a PSP during breaks at work.

What does a person do in order to be a success at this when they relate to an entirely different spectrum of pop culture? I hate pretend.[/quote]

The culture you should be discussing is business. Take advantage of the opportunity, get your game face on and work on getting ahead.

If you are having lunch with clients then use it as an opportunity to learn more about them. Business is based upon relationships. People do business with people they like.

You can build a better relationship with your client by simply asking questions. People love to talk about themselves and what they do. They’ll think you’re a great conversationalist and you might get some useful information that your client wouldn’t normally disclose.

If your luncheon consists of co-workers and these older guys are your peers then find out how they got where they are. What path did they take, what mistakes did they make along the way, what would they change? Use the information so you can climb above them on the corporate ladder.

Don’t kid yourself. These guys are as bored with you as you are with them, but if you can discover ways that you can make more money with them then the culture gap is irrelevant.

57

You need to be true to yourself!

Maybe this video can help you.

58

[quote]hedo wrote:

Physically yes you may be right. The responsibilities one assumes as the age are a shared experience that binds you together. Unless you plan is to remain unencumbered by a family, possessions and a career.[/quote]

I face up to responsibilities when necessary but I don’t intend on assuming significantly more of them as I get older. I don’t want to have children and I choose to manage my possessions in a way that burdens me the least. As for career responsibilities, my professional life is an important aspect, a career isn’t a priority that I will pursue at all costs, though.

To me, income and possessions serve as a means of providing me freedom, freedom to be myself and do what I actually want to do. They are not an inherent and terminal goal. On that note, restricting this freedom to a large extent in order to excel doesn’t make sense in my case - at some point, the effort I put into those two areas simply brings about diminishing returns.

59

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
hedo wrote:

Physically yes you may be right. The responsibilities one assumes as the age are a shared experience that binds you together. Unless you plan is to remain unencumbered by a family, possessions and a career.

I face up to responsibilities when necessary but I don’t intend on assuming significantly more of them as I get older. I don’t want to have children and I choose to manage my possessions in a way that burdens me the least. As for career responsibilities, my professional life is an important aspect, a career isn’t a priority that I will pursue at all costs, though.

To me, income and possessions serve as a means of providing me freedom, freedom to be myself and do what I actually want to do. They are not an inherent and terminal goal. On that note, restricting this freedom to a large extent in order to excel doesn’t make sense in my case - at some point, the effort I put into those two areas simply brings about diminishing returns. [/quote]

The one thing I would like to avoid is becoming one of those people who become trapped in their own career prison. They buy more and more shit and take on more and more responsibility until they literally have to work 50+ hours a week just to maintain their lifestyle and several bills.

I consider that no different than those guys who end up with 5 or 6 illegit children from 5 different women and now have to spend the rest of their lives making child support payments and only getting 20% of their own income.

Sometimes it helps to wear a condom.

Sometimes it helps to not aquire so much shit.

60

[quote]Professor X wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
hedo wrote:

Physically yes you may be right. The responsibilities one assumes as the age are a shared experience that binds you together. Unless you plan is to remain unencumbered by a family, possessions and a career.

I face up to responsibilities when necessary but I don’t intend on assuming significantly more of them as I get older. I don’t want to have children and I choose to manage my possessions in a way that burdens me the least. As for career responsibilities, my professional life is an important aspect, a career isn’t a priority that I will pursue at all costs, though.

To me, income and possessions serve as a means of providing me freedom, freedom to be myself and do what I actually want to do. They are not an inherent and terminal goal. On that note, restricting this freedom to a large extent in order to excel doesn’t make sense in my case - at some point, the effort I put into those two areas simply brings about diminishing returns.

The one thing I would like to avoid is becoming one of those people who become trapped in their own career prison. They buy more and more shit and take on more and more responsibility until they literally have to work 50+ hours a week just to maintain their lifestyle and several bills.

I consider that no different than those guys who end up with 5 or 6 illegit children from 5 different women and now have to spend the rest of their lives making child support payments and only getting 20% of their own income.

Sometimes it helps to wear a condom.

Sometimes it helps to not aquire so much shit.[/quote]

Very true. Buy a house you can afford.
Don’t buy new cars every 5 years. Resist the urge to keep up with the Jones’.

Have kids only when you are ready and make sure the mother is someone you can spend the rest of your life with.

It is nice to live debt free.