Just be yourself. You cant be a jack of all trades.
Every year I play golf with people that are worth sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars, this is no lie. Just played golf with someone who owns almost every radio station in Westchester County. When I’m with them I am a little more reserved but I’m still myself. They aren’t stuffy at all which I guess helps. When they talk about their industry I sit back and listen. I do that so next time I am with them I have something to draw on.
Funny story on how un-stuffy these people usually are, to me. I was taking a photo with two wealthy black men. One was a former athlete and the other is a major radio station owner west of the Mississippi. We were taking photos and they went on either side of me and said “Ok, we’re going to make an Oreo photo.” That is the usual character, when confronted with the business world type of person, that I get exposure to.
It also helps that my boss is a major player in my area as far as politics go. He’s a very educated man who cam efrom humble beginnings. That too I guess has rubbed off on me.
[quote]emdawgz1 wrote:
I’d try adding the journal to your daily routine. It can really help you in business.[/quote]
Daily, no, a few times a week yes. You cant force yourself to do that sort of thing if it isnt your cup of tea (enjoyment, business reasons). You can get an internet website subscription ($49) and easily navigate what you want to and dont want to read. Its much better for the people who dont want to sit in front of a newspaper.
A lot of good advice on this thread thus far. Like most of the previous posters, I know the feeling because I work in an environment dominated by lawyers within a Fortune 50 company.
By nature, my company is fairly conservative since it’s an aerospace company (you would think cool technology that puts people 35,000 ft up or into space would be a little less so).
I’ve found a couple of things work for me.
I’m just me at work and I tend to run a little on the goofy side. I know if I don’t let that part of me out, I will simply never be happy. I know you are in the service, but if you will be in a place where you have more choice over your future workplace, look for one that suits you and try not to settle for less.
A little bit of this (for me) is accepting that if I have to be an uptight stuffed-shirt to be a director or VP in my company, then I just don’t want it. For me, no amount of money would be worth it.
Recognize that just because you take on a different approach in certain work situations, it’s still you and you are not being fake. In a way, you split yourself down the middle for short periods of time. With people a certain amount of levels around me (my supervisor, peers and direct reports), I am more laid-back and a bit of a goof. If I am meeting with a VP or the General Counsel, betcha ass I am a lot more polished (even though deep down I would rather be wearing a baseball hat and a hoody).
Now, in that situation, am I being fake? Aww hell no. I am just adapting to what the situation calls for. Maybe to you that would be fake and the level of tolerance on this kind of thing varies for each person. But I find that as long as it is the kind of thing I do in shorter bursts, it works out fine… and when I warm up to some of the upper level types, I let my own personality shine through more.
So Prof, maybe that’s it. You might just need to get a certain level of comfort with your co-workers and then work in more of yourself. I feel for your situation because the first law firm I worked for had a lot of the same problem: me as a newly minted attorney working with a bunch of 50 year old dudes. It can be completely f-ing weird (and which is why I ended up moving on to an environment I liked better in the future).
I react similarly to you in those situations, although I’m not as big, so I probably don’t scare people off (and hence probably get different reactions).
I don’t often initiate conversations, but one thing that has helped me is actually taking an interest in what other people are talking about. Most conversation is banal, but that’s because people (even others) find it hard to find common interests. The more yours expand, the easier it will be to connect.
It also helps to be less judgemental. If someone says or does something stupid, don’t immediately write them off. If you do, you’ll act that way and alienate them. Frankly, I have a problem with this since, like most people, I think I’m superior to most people. From what I can tell, you’re probably the same.
I think the reactions so far are very informative, and I’d be interested in what other people have to say as well.
And on a random note, what do people think of Keith Ferrazzi’s book Never Eat Alone?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What do some of you do in situations like this? Mentally, though I know how to act in professional settings, I still laugh at bathroom humor and would rather watch Family Guy than read the Wallstreet Journal. I doubt these guys are listening to P. Diddy and Ludacris on the way to work in the mornings and I am positive they aren’t pulling out a PSP during breaks at work.
[/quote]
Something I forgot to add in my previous post.
Those things you describe above (hip hop, PSP, etc.) will eventually just become part of the regular quirks you become known (and appreciated) for. No one else eats like I do in my office. People love to check out what the heck I am eating for breakfast (typically oatmeal with berries and Metabolic Drive). People come to me all the time for exercise advice or to ask me some random bit of trivia since I seem to have a head for it.
Do I expect the 53 year old medical chief of staff will ask you which track from Luda will get the hoes a-bumping? Ummm, likely not. But he might ask you about some of that kind of stuff to get something for his daughter or granddaughter.
Be true to yourself because decent people will end up appreciating you for who you are.
[quote]blooey wrote:
It also helps to be less judgemental. If someone says or does something stupid, don’t immediately write them off. If you do, you’ll act that way and alienate them.[/quote]
This might be the best advice on the thread. It’s so easy to fall into this trap (and can easily be the same trap your co-workers fall into as well, which seems to be part of the worry within the original post from Prof).
[quote]Kuz wrote:
Those things you describe above (hip hop, PSP, etc.) will eventually just become part of the regular quirks you become known (and appreciated) for. [/quote]
If he doesnt, get appreciated, its the failure of the other person for not being accepting of who he is and that person loses out, not him. Thats for sure.
Good advice by all it seems. I’ll second the advice about listening. I’ve had a hearing loss for a long time. By default I became a good listener because most of the time I need to really focus on what people are saying to hear them clearly. You really learn a lot about people when you listen to them more then you speak to them. Business is all about relationships and those that can form them do well in business.
I felt similar, they have no idea what I am about. Then I realized they don’t really care either. Most people focus on themselves. Over time this becomes your strength when interacting with people. You learn a great deal about folks and you only volunteer what is asked. I’m always happy to tell a story or volunteer information but most folks never ask. I also wouldn’t discount the fact that your stage of life has a lot to do iwth how your feeling. I don’t think what your are talking about is uncommon for a later 20’s earaly 30’s professional to be experiencing. You have one foot in each world so to speak. I don’t have to tell you your next step is more likely into their world.
The part about going out on your own is great advice. Nothing beats it. Being your own boss is really about freedom and the ability to make your own choices.
[quote]PGA wrote:
emdawgz1 wrote:
I’d try adding the journal to your daily routine. It can really help you in business.
Daily, no, a few times a week yes. You cant force yourself to do that sort of thing if it isnt your cup of tea (enjoyment, business reasons). You can get an internet website subscription ($49) and easily navigate what you want to and dont want to read. Its much better for the people who dont want to sit in front of a newspaper.[/quote]
I dont read every article daily, but i certainly skim it, and the NYT daily.
Internet subscriptions are invaluable, as they allow you to print articles and read them later.
I think it helps, because if you are an adept conversationalist, the info will make you money.
X, one of the other posts said you are in the armed forces. If you are going career then the skills being discussed here are VITAL. I know and am friends w/ several guys who were career military( AF pilot and a jarhead) In the military, influence and information are your stock in trade. You have to know how to manage relationships and handle politics.
I’m still not saying to be a phony, however you have to be able to navigate w/ difficult people.
I get along just fine with people 40, 50, 60 years old or even older. The person who lives in my apartment building that I talk with most is 83 years old. I’m 26.
X, I think your problem is a matter of perspective. You seem intently focused on what sets you apart from others. Ridiculous, when you have so much more in common than different. Change your perspective to see the common areas, and expand upon those when they arive in conversation. You will find that you have at least two or three subjects of natural conversation with just about anyone, regardless of age or primary interest
[quote]Kuz wrote:
blooey wrote:
It also helps to be less judgemental. If someone says or does something stupid, don’t immediately write them off. If you do, you’ll act that way and alienate them.
This might be the best advice on the thread. It’s so easy to fall into this trap (and can easily be the same trap your co-workers fall into as well, which seems to be part of the worry within the original post from Prof).[/quote]
Most people won’t write us off, but if they do, then don’t treat them the same way. Persist in being ourselves near them/with them until they realize our humanity and both open up to one another on that level.
To some degree, I guess this is the price you have to pay when “pursuing a career” as opposed to simply “having a job”, albeit maybe an interesting and well paid one.
I definitely agree with what has been said about having a genuine interest in what the other person says and that it is a basic prerequisite in order to make the most of such opportunities. It definitely is a convenient thing that one can “learn” and “practise” this quality to a certain extent.
-developing a reliable business facade, one that accurately reflects the very best you have, is not lying. it’s bringing your A game no matter what you feel like.
-if you have no interest in the event, find one. you are always networking. if you truly have no interest and would in fact benefit more by using your time elsewhere, then do not go. you’ll come off like a bored school kid.
-if dogs can do this, so can you. the game is sniff or be sniffed. personally i like doing the sniffing. my challenge right now is sniffing the top dogs @ my company. those guys are good, really good. they don’t like being sniffed. when you’re really good you can sniff someone’s ass and they don’t even know.
-from Hagakure: The Way of the Samurai
“Walk with a real man one hundred years and he’ll tell you at least seven lies.”
“To ask when you already know is politeness. To ask when you don’t know is the rule.”
-finally, everyone feels the same as you do. that guy “cadav” from italy got it right, at least that’s what you’re up against.
I also wouldn’t discount the fact that your stage of life has a lot to do iwth how your feeling. I don’t think what your are talking about is uncommon for a later 20’s earaly 30’s professional to be experiencing. You have one foot in each world so to speak. I don’t have to tell you your next step is more likely into their world.[/quote]
Not for me. The path that most of my elder coworkers have taken is not the path I intend on taking.
Besides, judging from the initial post, this is not so much about age, but rather about a gap running through all age groups and given the fact that people who think like most of the regulars on this site are a minority, I don’t think many of us stand a good chance of “aging” into the world of the majority without a conscious effort and probably the elimination of significant character traits.
Wow, you’ve taken a page straight out of my mind. Different musical tastes (mine is hard rock), but I’m otherwise in EXACTLY the same boat dealing with EXACTLY the same things.
You’ve just gotta’ learn to suck it up and play along, seem comfortable in that environment and get done what you need to get done. Be a chameleon. Otherwise your career will get nowhere. And recognize the fact that that won’t change you from being the person you truly are underneath, and that you’ll still be cranking the same tunes when you leave the meeting.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m not anti-social, I just hate fake smiles, false good mornings and long conversations about shit that I truly don’t care about just to have lunch with people I would never actually hang out with casually. No less, I am finding myself in situations where this is becoming a necessity and I feel…what’s the term…like a fish out of water.
I listen to Hip-Hop music, dress in tank tops when casual and like to lift heavy objects. While movies and video games may spark a conversation with me, when faced with a 50+ year old group of professionals at a “work lunch” or even one working as part of an interview process, I get the feeling that my conversation will be less than lively.
What do some of you do in situations like this? Mentally, though I know how to act in professional settings, I still laugh at bathroom humor and would rather watch Family Guy than read the Wallstreet Journal. I doubt these guys are listening to P. Diddy and Ludacris on the way to work in the mornings and I am positive they aren’t pulling out a PSP during breaks at work.
What does a person do in order to be a success at this when they relate to an entirely different spectrum of pop culture? I hate pretend.[/quote]
I feel your pain. I just got out of law school and I’m starting to look for a job. I’ve yet to meet a lawyer who lifts seriously, much less competites in powerlifting, bodybuilding, mma, etc.
Whoever said ask questions is dead on. I’m sure your profession is just as full of egos and blowhards as mine. Most people can’t wait to tell you where they went to school, why that school’s successful college football team somehow makes them better than you, why their political party is correct and so forth. Most people do like sports and it’s a good ice breaker. Let them do the talking.
Professionals are pretty mobile and may be new to the city. I just had a lunch interview, while he was kind of a bigshot he was new to the area. If you have been in Houston for a while you’re knowledge of where the nice neighborhoods, good restaurants are, price ranges of the new apartments going up, urban revitalization, etc can make you an assett.
Finally, I ordered a book called The Modern Gentleman by Mollod and Tesauro. I read about it on T-Nation. It talks about a number of things from tipping to manners to style.
Lots of good advice here. Let me mention something that hasn’t come up yet that has been a factor for me.
After years of disciplined eating and lifting, I tend to be judgmental about those who treat their bodies like shit. I frequently end up talking to some business prospect who is complaining about his expanding waistline while holding a bourbon in one hand and a blob of fried fat in the other.
Of course I do my best to hide my disgust. But people are often more intuitive than it seems.
I know that it’s a failing on my part and I don’t have any neat tricks to deal with it. But I find that often this is the factor that is keeping me from implementing some of the other suggestions offered here like genuine interest, etc.
If you ask a lot of questions, try to find some way to remember the answers. Nothing shows your disinterest as well as not remembering anything someone tells you. So, try to be interested in the answers when you ask something.
It’s not inappropriate to keep a small notepad with important dates, names and events. You can “debrief” after a meeting and make notes. You can review this before future meetings and ask about your coworkers family members by name and so forth. I guess this depends on how often you interact with some people and how large a group you are dealing with.
It seems like a total waste of time and effort, but social grease is huge in some business environments… apparently sometimes more important even than absolute skill. That annoys me, but there is no use fighting how things work.
Thankfully, I don’t have to play these reindeer games at the moment.
[quote]PGA wrote:
Kuz wrote:
Those things you describe above (hip hop, PSP, etc.) will eventually just become part of the regular quirks you become known (and appreciated) for.
If he doesnt, get appreciated, its the failure of the other person for not being accepting of who he is and that person loses out, not him. Thats for sure.[/quote]