The Andrew Tate Case

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1065

I don’t think it’s a ‘these days’ issue.

I’ve shown you the suicide stats from the 1800s through the early and mid 1990s.

Suicide was a huge issue back in the day. Alcoholism was banned from the 20s through to the 30s because alcoholism was such an issue in the states

Mental illess is diagnosed more often nowadays because there is more awareness. Back in the day if you had autism or behavioural abnormalities the protocol was institutionalisation, a lobotomy, heavy sedation (barbituates, tranquilizers etc) or a combinarion of all the above.

Kids also have a reason to be sad today… from never being out of debt to never being able to own property… there’s plenty to be sad about…

Newer generations also interact with their peers less… and online interaction is no substitute for real world interaction

There are reasons to be sad.

"No social issues, good grades, completely normal families, no mental illness’’

I’d wager that combination IS somewhat rare, very few have ‘optimal’ lives. The ‘American dream’ is a fallacy.

1066

I don’t think any country has to be accommodating to who they don’t want to. It’s their place. If a place is accommodating, then that can offer people nice experiences. I’m not well travelled but I’ve been to six different countries and I will never forget my experiences in them. I appreciated their hospitality. But if they didn’t want to be hospitable, I’d accept that. I don’t have privileges in countries I don’t live in.

I didn’t know. And I don’t know of normal people who in some serious way seek to shun childless people. Do you?

Once again I don’t know what you are talking about. Who the heck is seeking to punish people for not having children or marrying? And how would that even be done?

I don’t see how that would be so. What would we do? Spy on people? Punish them for having sex outside of marriage?

Where are you getting this stuff from?

1067

OK, so we’re doing bad, as I’ve repeatedly said.

1068

I should add though, there are actually kids with what you termed “optimal lives”. @unreal24278

1069

Yup. And the West is the sphere that appreciated individuals the most.

1070

So… are childless men and women burdensome or problematic? If so, should there be a stigma associated with not getting married or not having children?

Maybe i’ve misinterpreted your outlook… but stigma/ostracism is the same as punishment in my book.

I believe you

But unfortunately I don’t think it’s the majority. We could crunch the numbers and I’m sure you’ll find most kids have at least one family member who is depressed, a drug addict, an alcoholic, chronically ill etc or the kid’s parents are divorced… perhaps the kid is depressed, bullied at school

And unfortunately 5% of boys are sexually molested before reaching adulthood. That number is up to 10% for girls.

The kids are NOT alright and haven’t been for a long time (offspring song 'the kids aren’t alright).

Many kids aren’t depressed… but the perfect home life? I think that’s rare.

I also think there’s a HUGE disconnect between this generation and their parents. Such a wide disconnect between parents and children has only been present in modern times between parents who grew up in the 50s vs kids who grew up in the 60s/70s

When you were a kiddo, how many of your peers had ‘optimal lives’? Not many… this still rings true today, and it will always ring true @BrickHead

There is nothing you or I can do about it. I can’t make property affordable, I can’t stop bad parents from having kids, I can’t stop bad people from picking on the weak… at most you can have some control over what your kids do

But with advancements in technology that is becoming increasingly difficult to do. Very few have optimal lives, but having one or two problems doesn’t exactly mean someone has a bad life

I think it is unrealistic to expect the majority to have optimal lives. I think it is realistic to provide our young with better coping mechanisms, thus making them more adept at dealing with hardship relative to prior generations

God knows they’ll need it when living paycheck to paycheck right up until retirement… or maybe property prices will drop… who knows…

America is considerably more individual centric relative to Western Europe, Australia, most of Asia and South America. You can say ‘the west’… but America is VERY unique in many ways. Even for all it’s flaws, America is still one of the better countries to live in.

The USA isn’t becoming more third world btw. “Between 1990 and 2021, United States’s HDI value changed from 0.872 to 0.921, an change of 5.6 percent.”

0.921 = not in the top 10, but still one of the ‘most developed countries’. Sometimes I actually wish I still lived in the United States..

Sometimes… United States is STILL ‘the land of opportunity’.

1071

How would people be ostracized for not having children? Like, is a man not gonna be invited to a Saturday night poker club? Not invited to a holiday dinner?

I do think having an excess of childless, unmarried women is a societal burden. Thought I don’t what exact amount of them constitutes excess. This is likely an unpopular view, especially here; I accept that.

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1072

Some people should not have had children. We just happen to live at a time when people have the option to make babies without needing the capacity to raise them by their own means.

And couples that can’t have biological children can always adopt if they want to be parents.

Of course it would be. More single women in the workforce will cause issues because women are limited as to the jobs they can do, for obvious biological reasons, and want to do. So those jobs will have more candidates than opportunities. And when we see jobs where women are the majority, such as teaching, we can see why schools have so many problems. The feminization of any field or industry will bring about its downfall. Movies are terrible these days because of the influence of women, for example. The whole infiltration of trans ideology in every facet of society is because of women.

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1073

I didn’t comment on this before. Again, I don’t know what this personal situation has to do with what I said, like no clue.

You have the option of finding a woman to do that. Has anyone suggested something that would completely bar you from this? Even if our countries weren’t sexually loose and there were expectations of you doing it in marriage or love, you’d still be able to do it even if unmarried and not in love! You just would have to keep quiet about it and it would be harder to do.

Im either case it’s simple: you find a woman who likes you and then have sex with her. If you want sex, no one is stopping you nor could they.

I don’t know how you extrapolate from my posts what you do.

Why did you take my mention of codes of conduct and make it all about families? I didn’t make one mention about how you should act considering you will not start a family. Where are you getting this?

There are social norms and expectations normal people have that have nothing to do with families, like violations of public space, not obtruding one’s own shitty personal traits, not hooting and hollering at women on the street, not screaming into thin air while shuffling along sidewalks not cutting school, not being a shithead in classrooms, not abusing people, and on and on.

Where do you come up with what you do from my posts here?

Re: maladjusted people I grew up with

Yes, no shortage of them. I grew up around some well-adjusted kids and some seriously warped, anti-social people too. I think there was something about the time and location, early 90’s latchkey kid era, seriously uncaring or overwhelmed parents, in the boroughs of NYC, that lead to social problems (criminality included) and utter mediocrity.

Re: America is not becoming more Third World

America is ranked 131 in the peace index of 2023 out of 160+plus countries. While the other topics discussed here have something to do with societal symptoms that give way to a bullshit artist like Andrew Tate, I think this topic belongs in another thread.

How? You can get married and not have kids. People do this and plenty of remarriages don’t produce children.

Marriage is about several things:

  1. Family and political alliances.
  2. Pooling of resources.
  3. Division of household labor.
  4. Companionship (I include sex, love and affection in here).

Overall it’s about life partnership. One of my cousins didn’t have kids. Her marriage is fine.

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1074

What percentage of NORMAL young women do you think are ok with the idea of not having kids? I think it’s a very small minority. Maybe i’m wrong, perhaps it’s just a self esteem issue on my part or something (who knows).

If you look at rates of anti social behaviour (youth violence, drug use etc) your generation was actually THE worst generation out of them all. Total free for all… like that movie ‘kids’

Good movie, but hard to watch. If interested in a less graphic/more mainstream film about kids growing up in 1990s watch ‘mid90s’. Its about a bunch of skaters growing up in Los Angles.

Couldn’t agree more

Oooooooo

7.3 out of 10!

Must be pretty good!!! It’s directed by Jonah Hill!!! Insert subliminal messaging directing brickhead to watch this movie!

It does show some disturbing, antisocial behaviour like self harm, domestic violence, underage drinking (and consequences associated) etc but it’s NOTHING like kids. Kids was nc-17, most theatres refused to show it.

Also has 80% on rotton tomatoes. Would you watch this?

It WAS on netflix. Not sure about now. Mid90s is a dramadey whereas kids is JUST disturbing.

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1075

There are a lot of ‘tate copies’ popping up on social media

Very cringe… and a little bit worrying because the ‘Tate’ guys, the PUA guys… they actually push a dynamic promoting sexual licticiousness, bad behaviour and degeneracy

If acting like Tate becomes the ideal archetype, women would ACTUALLY become oppressed. I SERIOUSLY believe (as do you) that Andrew Tate believes women are objects… like sex dolls to him. He has NO respect, no remorse and no compassion.

It would be reactionary, brewing male frustration reaches a boiling point etc. Humanity is not good at implementing middle grounds. I wouldn’t like to see a complete 180 from the status quo.

1076

I’m unsure, but I don’t think many. So you have a small pool to draw from.

1077

Look at my comment above re tate copies.

You can find them on tiktok, youtube and instagram

Would you like to see what i’m talking about? I can provide links to these Andrew Tate copycats

1078

There’s a whole slew of them. That guy who’s always in a bathrobe, The Fresh and Fit Show, John Anthony Lifestyle (said he had 1,000 partners), and so on.

I actually think if he were running things, we’d see a return to the sort of legitimized sexual slavery in the Ottoman Empire.

The men we speak of see women only as masturbation tools.

I once read a Manospherian say that men should aim for fatherless women. And supposedly Tate targeted women with dead dads. That’s pretty much what you get when men check out, because protecting daughters and sisters disallows them from “owning their sexuality.” Supposedly parenre shouldn’t have a say in which men their daughters associate with; that’s oppressive.

In a way I’m glad my morbid curiosity leads me to know what’s out there.

1079

It also leads to looking at/reading things that keep you up at night (there are downsides)

When I was about 10 or 11 years old my morbid curiosity led to me purchasing a book about Americas most prolific serial killers.

That book kept me up at night because I’d be worried someone was going to climb through my bedroom window and kidnap me.

I still have that book, and looking through it now I see that it was completely inappropriate for 10-11 year old me to have been looking through.

I also read ‘fifty shades of grey’ when I was around eleven years old because my aunt left it lying around.

Predators smell blood in the water. Hence the stereotypical ‘women with daddy issues’

Guys who prey on women like that are creeps.

I believe I’d find it immensely satisfying to watch Andrew Tate hang from the gallows.

But like a really slow drop where he’s on his tippy toes for like forty five minutes.

Either that or execution by firing squad

‘You can’t shoot me! Imma top G… driving in my bugatt-’

BAM!

“Shit… I guess I’m not invincible!”

Guy thinks he’s untouchable and unfortuantely… for the longest time he was untouchable.

It is sickening as to how he got away with what he did for so long. That we most certainly agree on.

We as a collective society need to talk about Tate… but no… we are burying it under the rug. But Tate is a manifeststion of the cancers permeating society… not a one off.

You should watch mid90s @BrickHead

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1080

He also has no children, no wife, no friends and no life.

1081

Good thing he lacks what it takes to be running things. And that’s the irony. In Tate’s world, he wouldn’t be running anything.

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1082

Why?

1083

Because life is unfair. There is only so much we can control

There is no reason, no ryhme, no why bad things happen sometimes.

My mom lost her father at the age of thirteen and had to be raised by her mother (cold, unaffectionate, difficult to deal with etc)

My mother didn’t deserve that, nor did she deserve to be raised in poverty.

Take my circumstances. What on earth could I have done to deserve the cards i’ve been dealt?

What did you do to deserve being raised by relatively absent parents? What did you do to deserve being exposed to traumatic variables growing up (and you were exposed to things a young person should never have been exposed to).

See what I’m getting at? For the deck to be ‘optimally stacked’ that is a rare combination of good fortune and coincidence. Some people are luckier than others.

Did you watch mid90s?

1084

Life is neither fair nor unfair. Fairness is only meaningful when it comes to how we treat one another.

This implies that the circumstances your mother found herself in were created by some metaphysical agent.

But there are no cards and there is no dealer. Would it make you feel better if someone else were in your position? My mother died when I was very young. She was very young, 25. I used to think it was unfair and, being raised Catholic and going to Sunday School, I would ask why God would do something like this to me. No one gave me a satisfactory answer. When I got older I realized I was asking the wrong questions. People die young. Mothers die young. If not my mother then someone else’s mother. Why should it be someone else’s mother and not mine? Why do I deserve to not go through that ordeal more than anyone else? In the end, all you can do is not give up. The universe doesn’t care if you win or lose so why give it a power it doesn’t have? When you use words like fair and deserve you are looking for a villain, someone to blame. There is no villain and no one to blame. It’s a waste of energy, time and life.

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