The Abortion Thread

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
Pat,

“How can you claim there’s nothing wrong with abortion, but then claim in an ideal world there would be none? If you support abortion, in your ideal world, there should abortion clinics connected to gas stations.”

I claim this the same way I think about Country Music, people can choose to listen to it all they want, but in an ideal world it would not exist. With that in mind, and me saying “I support the right of people to listen to country music” it certainly does not logically follow that I would want ALL the stations to be country music stations (you can replace country music stations with social conservatives and you still get the same answer).

And abortion rates have been dropping for over 30 years, so there is that.

My conscience is clear (at least with regards to this), and it will remain so.[/quote]It is almost impossible for me to believe I just read this. We have fallen this far?
[/quote]

Tribulus,

What did I say now? Are you going to say that I think country music and abortion are the same in my mind? I hope not, I hope you look at my quote in response to Pat and realize I was making a point that supporting a person’s right to choose something does not mean that I like what they choose or that I want what they choose to be on every corner.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Don’t forget Trib, liberals believe abortion is no different than choosing chocolate or vanilla ice cream.

[/quote]

Well getting to choose is better than government making the choice for us right? I think Ron Paul would agree.

One million, two hundred thousand children are literally torn apart and you want me to be happy? Seriously get over yourself. I will be happy when people make informed decisions while realizing the atrocious nature of abortion.

[quote]therajraj wrote: Huh?

My point was the number of abortions is on the decline. You should be happy.
[/quote]

Dr. Paul spoke from the libertarian platform and his ideas are synonymous with that type of government. Ron would have also repealed Roe v Wade because personhood begins at the moment of conception and killing another person is against our laws. The good Dr. would have done this during the first thirty days of office.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
One million, two hundred thousand children are literally torn apart and you want me to be happy? Seriously get over yourself. I will be happy when people make informed decisions while realizing the atrocious nature of abortion.

[quote]therajraj wrote: Huh?

My point was the number of abortions is on the decline. You should be happy.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Get over myself?

Assuming this pace continues, a few decades down the road only a very small amount of women will be having abortions.

So yes you should be happy abortion is trending that way. I am.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Dr. Paul spoke from the libertarian platform and his ideas are synonymous with that type of government. Ron would have also repealed Roe v Wade because personhood begins at the moment of conception and killing another person is against our laws. The good Dr. would have done this during the first thirty days of office.

[/quote]

Why would he have done this when no other republican president has done so yet?

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
One million, two hundred thousand children are literally torn apart and you want me to be happy? Seriously get over yourself. I will be happy when people make informed decisions while realizing the atrocious nature of abortion.

[quote]therajraj wrote: Huh?

My point was the number of abortions is on the decline. You should be happy.
[/quote]
[/quote]

One million would sound significant except for the fact in the next 100 years over 10 billion people will die who actually were conscious for more than 0 seconds.

“The moral test of a government is how it treats those who are at the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadow of life, the sick and the needy, and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

Mahatma Ghandi who said, “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”

Churchill said that you measure the degree of civilisation of a society by how it treats its weakest members.

Truman said a society will be judged by how it treats its weakest members.

“Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members – the last, the least, the littlest.”
~Cardinal Roger Mahony

Or all these men are wrong.

[quote]therajraj wrote: Get over myself?

Assuming this pace continues, a few decades down the road only a very small amount of women will be having abortions.

So yes you should be happy abortion is trending that way. I am.[/quote]

Dr. Ron Paul has a medical degree as a ObGyn, in addition he followed through with his spoken word. I don’t recall the exact numbers but Paul voted to shrink the government, NOT expand our government. In addition, the good Dr. came out and said he would repeal Roe v Wade.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
“The moral test of a government is how it treats those who are at the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadow of life, the sick and the needy, and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

Mahatma Ghandi who said, “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”

Churchill said that you measure the degree of civilisation of a society by how it treats its weakest members.

Truman said a society will be judged by how it treats its weakest members.

“Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members – the last, the least, the littlest.”
~Cardinal Roger Mahony

Or all these men are wrong.

[quote]therajraj wrote: Get over myself?

Assuming this pace continues, a few decades down the road only a very small amount of women will be having abortions.

So yes you should be happy abortion is trending that way. I am.[/quote]
[/quote]

Ladies and gentlemen, the king of non-answers.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not only are the number of abortions decreasing, they are decreasing at a pretty steady rate.

[/quote]

And why do you think that is, raj?

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not only are the number of abortions decreasing, they are decreasing at a pretty steady rate.

[/quote]

And why do you think that is, raj?

[/quote]

We discussed why a while back.

Comprehensive sex education + contraception.

Also access to contraception as a whole has increased dramatically.

You are right Mak, respecting the unborn is a reason to STOP abortions now, or we have an assumption from raj.

Wait, you ARE on that short bus and you need a logical conclusion explained.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
“The moral test of a government is how it treats those who are at the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadow of life, the sick and the needy, and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

Mahatma Ghandi who said, “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”

Churchill said that you measure the degree of civilisation of a society by how it treats its weakest members.

Truman said a society will be judged by how it treats its weakest members.

“Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members – the last, the least, the littlest.”
~Cardinal Roger Mahony

Or all these men are wrong.

[quote]therajraj wrote: Get over myself?

Assuming this pace continues, a few decades down the road only a very small amount of women will be having abortions.

So yes you should be happy abortion is trending that way. I am.[/quote]
[/quote]

Ladies and gentlemen, the king of non-answers.[/quote]

The whole number of abortions has deceased slightly. So your assumption that access to contraception would stop abortions is incorrect.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also access to contraception as a whole has increased dramatically.[/quote]


Just like most young, single women, I was terrified when I found out that I was pregnant.
Written by Lauren Collins

Not because I have never experienced that before. I have two little girls with my ex-husband. I was nineteen when I got pregnant with my first, but it still wasnâ??t as scary as when I was pregnant with Jeremiah. It was different. With the first two I was in a relationship with the father-with Jeremiah, I was not. A lot of things scared me about having another baby. I didn’t have a job. I was living at home with my parents. Jeremiah’s father wanted nothing to do with us. I already had two children. It was a challenge making ends meet with just us three; I couldn’t imagine adding a fourth. I was nervous about telling my dad because I knew he would be very disappointed in me and I was afraid that he might be so angry that he might kick us out. Fortunately that was not the case.

I felt so lost and out of control. I had always been against abortion, no matter what-but I’m not going to lie: it crossed my mind.

For a couple months, I researched it and talked to Planned Parenthood. It weighed heavy on my mind. I have never told anyone, until now, that I had thought about having an abortion. I am ashamed to admit it - that I had selflessly brought two other children in this world, and here I was contemplating denying this child, my child, the right to live.

I didn’t completely dismiss the idea of abortion until I finally spoke with Jeremiah’s dad when I was about three months pregnant. He talked about Jeremiah like he was just an object, and it made me so angry. Then I realized, I was doing the same thing. His life wasn’t an object to just throw away out of inconvenience. That’s when I decided his life was priceless. He was precious and deserved to live.

Since the reason I thought about abortion was because I didn’t think I could properly take care of another child, I discussed with my dad and step-mom about adopting him. My step-mom cannot have children of her own. They have raised my nephew since he was a baby, and he is now ten, and I knew that she would like to have another baby to raise, and they were the only two people in the world who would entrust something so precious to me. We decided to pray about it, and we decided that if God was in it, everyone would have peace about it, and we would take the proper steps toward the adoption process.

When I was four and a half months pregnant, it just became more and more clear that I was supposed to raise Jeremiah. God was making that very clear to me. He was mine, and he was going to get all my love, just like my other children, Natalie and Miley. Once I accepted my new life and the fact that I am now a mom of 3, my heart began to change, and I was feeling happy again.

Yes, it is still tough. I barely get any sleep at night, I want to rip my hair out sometimes, but it’s all worth it. Nothing in the world can top the feeling you get when you watch your kids sleep, or when they run to you and hug you, or they smile at you, or especially when they tell you the love you. All the little moments far outweigh the difficulties and obstacles I have to face. I am so thankful that God chose me out of all the women in the world to raise these three beautiful children. He entrusted me with them, and I am going to be the best mom that I know how to be.

My name is Lauren Collins, and I chose life!

http://liveactionnews.org/opinion/i-chose-life/

That’s the “breathing conscience” I mentioned that so many women are missing today. Men too of course.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The whole number of abortions has deceased slightly. So your assumption that access to contraception would stop abortions is incorrect.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also access to contraception as a whole has increased dramatically.[/quote]
[/quote]

When did he say access to contraception would STOP abortions? It was only meant to bring down the number.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The whole number of abortions has deceased slightly. So your assumption that access to contraception would stop abortions is incorrect.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also access to contraception as a whole has increased dramatically.[/quote]
[/quote]

No it hasn’t, it has decreased greatly.

In 1980 29.3 women per 1000 were having abortions. Now that number is 19.

Multiply that out for the female US population and you’ll see that number is huge.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The contraception thing is stupid. Never has contraception been more available and cheap than it is now, and the amount of abortions hasn’t changed one iota. If contraception was the answer, we should see the number drop, but we don’t 1.2 million per year. Glad your willing to wear those deaths on your conscience, because I am not.[/quote]

I’m beginning to think you are unable to absorb and process new information.

You’ve been told before that this is untrue and yet you still peddle this crap.

[/quote]

The rates aren’t terribly significant, further do you have any concrete proof that any drop in abortion rates is related to contraception.

And, none of that stops the fact that you are still killing a person.