Testosterone News Corner

Off Topic
21

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]

My fiancee (who has been taking oral estrogen from an early age for her skin) tried to lecture me once on how she would hate me if I ever started taking testosterone. I made sure she never had the nerve to bring it up again.[/quote]

Did she ever explain here reasoning there?
[/quote]

Women and reasoning? Surely you jest!

22

[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]

My fiancee (who has been taking oral estrogen from an early age for her skin) tried to lecture me once on how she would hate me if I ever started taking testosterone. I made sure she never had the nerve to bring it up again.[/quote]

Did she ever explain here reasoning there?
[/quote]

Women and reasoning? Surely you jest![/quote]

Good point.

My mistake…I thought this involved logic.

23

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
I also think it has a lot to do with what people view as “recreational” drugs. For example Testosterone supplementation is seen as a DRUG with the means of getting big muscle and exchanging athletic abilities.

Just like any other “recreational” drug, Test is not view as something necessary for someones good health but instead it’s viewed as something people use because they WANT and not necessarily NEED.

[/quote]

Women don’t NEED breast implants or botox injections either. It is not viewed as something necessary for someones good health but instead it’s viewed as something people use because they WANT and not necessarily NEED.

24

That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.

25

[quote]dirtbag wrote:

[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
It amazes me that both the general public and scientific community accept injecting botox (a relative of botulism) into a persons lips, implanting a silicone bag in a females chest to mimick larger breasts, or using a vacuum to suck the fat out of a lazy fat persons body (knowing damn well they’ll gain it back). These are all OK. But giving and adult male a hormone that they are deficient in…well that’s just crazy. Why the fuck are people so afraid of this? [/quote]

Isn’t the problem here that the “normal values” of T-levels are pretty low and have a high range difference. So unless a Doctor is an advocate for TRT, or like the poster above said, in a rich area, getting prescribed TRT seems to be pretty hard. I would assume many people going for TRT are in the “normal” values of T-levels. And again, I am just going to play devils advocate and post this excerpt from Sanjay Gupta to have some cool discussions.

�¢?? He explains, for example, that while levels of growth hormone declines with age, it has not been proven to be beneficial to try and maintain young person�¢??s levels and that trials are clearly showing:

negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.[/quote]

And what about the people like me. Who are on the low low end of testosterone levels. I just squeek by the normal range(by one or 2 points). So my Dr refuses to treat me. Giving me the pass the buck routine to endo’s and the endo says your just fine.

I have been holding on for 2 years now waiting for my dr to finally do something about it.

All of this can be avoided if there was not so many people like you saying this could be the wrong thing to do.

I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]

Are you serious? People like me? I support the use of TRT especially for people like you. Notice the use of “” around the word NORMAL. However, I do try my best to remain unbiased as possible when posting about this stuff. I feel like it adds more to the discussion. Obviously I am mistaken on this forum.

26

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

Birth Control pills are DRUGS and women eat those like candy. They can take them out and plop them on the table in front of everyone and no one will ever say a negative word…so no, simply being a drug does NOT mean the chemical is degraded in media.

27

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Point being, if you have enough money and live in an area where looks and status are paramount then your chances of getting testosteron replacement is pretty good. Anywhere else and your screwed.[/quote]

I disagree with this. It doesn’t take a radical underground doctor to prescribe testosterone (or other ancillaries) and it’s not radically expensive-- The Over 35 forum is full of guys who are on TRT from regular old doctors. Many insurances pick up TRT.

Hell, I have a neighbor who has probably never seen the inside of a gym who is on androgel. He’s just a regular (older) dude.

Based on the dozens and dozens of threads on these boards the problem (if any) is finding a doctor that’s educated and competent in TRT/HRT. Some guys go to their family doc, some guys see specialists (urologist, andrologist, internist, endo, etc).

Don’t perpetuate the idea that TRT is voodoo and that only rich, connected, and/or exclusive members of the “I got money club” can do it. The more people make it sound like voodoo, the more uneducated folks will latch on and continue the myth.

re: media – ESPN is one of the most rabidly anti-Test media outlets I’ve ever encountered.

28

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

You’re right, I didn’t focus on that part of your post. But I bet you if there was a drug that made women’s tits bigger and made them feel younger, there wouldn’t be as much resistance to it.

There ton’s of stupid drugs out there that people don’t need. I see them on TV every day.

29

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Point being, if you have enough money and live in an area where looks and status are paramount then your chances of getting testosteron replacement is pretty good. Anywhere else and your screwed.[/quote]

Have you heard of google? It’s pretty easy to find reputable HRT specialists/organizations via the interwebz that have networks of doctors around the country. It matters not where you live…

30

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

You’re right, I didn’t focus on that part of your post. But I bet you if there was a drug that made women’s tits bigger and made them feel younger, there wouldn’t be as much resistance to it.

There ton’s of stupid drugs out there that people don’t need. I see them on TV every day.[/quote]

I don’t know what drugs you are talking about but I would guess they don’t get much media coverage. With TEST as soon as something bad happens the media is all over it.

31

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

You’re right, I didn’t focus on that part of your post. But I bet you if there was a drug that made women’s tits bigger and made them feel younger, there wouldn’t be as much resistance to it.

There ton’s of stupid drugs out there that people don’t need. I see them on TV every day.[/quote]

I don’t know what drugs you are talking about but I would guess they don’t get much media coverage. With TEST as soon as something bad happens the media is all over it. [/quote]

They did the same thing with creatine. Even though all studies show benefits, they ran after ONE story about some wrestlers who died because they dehydrated themselves in a sauna for hours.

The media in this country hates muscles…or at least they did.

32

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
And what about the people like me. Who are on the low low end of testosterone levels. I just squeek by the normal range(by one or 2 points). So my Dr refuses to treat me. Giving me the pass the buck routine to endo’s and the endo says your just fine.

I have been holding on for 2 years now waiting for my dr to finally do something about it.

All of this can be avoided if there was not so many people like you saying this could be the wrong thing to do.

I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]

Again, I don’t understand why you are limiting yourself with this “one” doctor. There are plenty of organizations/specialists that are a few clicks away from a simple google search that will get you what you need legally. If I had a nickel for every time someone bemoaning the fact that they can’t get TRT from their PCP on this site, I’d be a millionaire many times over. I don’t get it…

33

[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:

[quote]dirtbag wrote:

[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
It amazes me that both the general public and scientific community accept injecting botox (a relative of botulism) into a persons lips, implanting a silicone bag in a females chest to mimick larger breasts, or using a vacuum to suck the fat out of a lazy fat persons body (knowing damn well they’ll gain it back). These are all OK. But giving and adult male a hormone that they are deficient in…well that’s just crazy. Why the fuck are people so afraid of this? [/quote]

Isn’t the problem here that the “normal values” of T-levels are pretty low and have a high range difference. So unless a Doctor is an advocate for TRT, or like the poster above said, in a rich area, getting prescribed TRT seems to be pretty hard. I would assume many people going for TRT are in the “normal” values of T-levels. And again, I am just going to play devils advocate and post this excerpt from Sanjay Gupta to have some cool discussions.

�?�¢?? He explains, for example, that while levels of growth hormone declines with age, it has not been proven to be beneficial to try and maintain young person�?�¢??s levels and that trials are clearly showing:

negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.[/quote]

And what about the people like me. Who are on the low low end of testosterone levels. I just squeek by the normal range(by one or 2 points). So my Dr refuses to treat me. Giving me the pass the buck routine to endo’s and the endo says your just fine.

I have been holding on for 2 years now waiting for my dr to finally do something about it.

All of this can be avoided if there was not so many people like you saying this could be the wrong thing to do.

I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]

Are you serious? People like me? I support the use of TRT especially for people like you. Notice the use of “” around the word NORMAL. However, I do try my best to remain unbiased as possible when posting about this stuff. I feel like it adds more to the discussion. Obviously I am mistaken on this forum.[/quote]

I apologize I miss read what you said and jumped on you for it. As you can tell I am at the end of my rope where this subject is concerned.

34

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

Birth Control pills are DRUGS and women eat those like candy. They can take them out and plop them on the table in front of everyone and no one will ever say a negative word…so no, simply being a drug does NOT mean the chemical is degraded in media.[/quote]
I understand but Control pills don’t make you “jack and have roid rage”. My point is that most people don’t even think of Testosterone as a hormone but as an illegal drug that people use to get “huge”.

I bet you the average person doesn’t even understand that this hormone is responsible for the majority of male behavior.

35

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

You’re right, I didn’t focus on that part of your post. But I bet you if there was a drug that made women’s tits bigger and made them feel younger, there wouldn’t be as much resistance to it.

There ton’s of stupid drugs out there that people don’t need. I see them on TV every day.[/quote]

I don’t know what drugs you are talking about but I would guess they don’t get much media coverage. With TEST as soon as something bad happens the media is all over it. [/quote]

I wonder if the real culprit is really just professional sports, and the “anti-cheating” attitude, i.e. if steroids are bad in professional baseball (even though they are only bad in terms of it being “cheating” not performance), then they must be bad always.

36

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
That’s true but I think you missed my point when it came to mass media and people eating their bullshit without questioning or doing further research. Test is a drug and drugs don’t get a good rep from the media.[/quote]

You’re right, I didn’t focus on that part of your post. But I bet you if there was a drug that made women’s tits bigger and made them feel younger, there wouldn’t be as much resistance to it.

There ton’s of stupid drugs out there that people don’t need. I see them on TV every day.[/quote]

I don’t know what drugs you are talking about but I would guess they don’t get much media coverage. With TEST as soon as something bad happens the media is all over it. [/quote]

I wonder if the real culprit is really just professional sports, and the “anti-cheating” attitude, i.e. if steroids are bad in professional baseball (even though they are only bad in terms of it being “cheating” not performance), then they must be bad always.

[/quote]

That alone is why lay-people and politicians should never be in charge of dictating what someone else can see for treatment by their own physician. The DOCTOR should be in control of that, not some retarded soccer mom from Texas who voted against it because she is afraid her son may get some and “rage” on the whole family.

I will be glad when adults can go back to being adults instead of having to live “for the children” whether they have any or not.

37

Spartiates: Like I was saying. I think the media has a LOT to do with it and of course sports being perfect example.

It’s also funny how a lot of people tend to know the negatives of Testosterone: “omg your nutz are gonna shrink” “omg your gonna be bald”. This is why I say most people are ignorant. If anyone has read on the supplementation of Test they know that side effects can be minimized to the point where the benefits clearly outweighs the “sides”.

38

[quote]randman wrote:

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
And what about the people like me. Who are on the low low end of testosterone levels. I just squeek by the normal range(by one or 2 points). So my Dr refuses to treat me. Giving me the pass the buck routine to endo’s and the endo says your just fine.

I have been holding on for 2 years now waiting for my dr to finally do something about it.

All of this can be avoided if there was not so many people like you saying this could be the wrong thing to do.

I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]

Again, I don’t understand why you are limiting yourself with this “one” doctor. There are plenty of organizations/specialists that are a few clicks away from a simple google search that will get you what you need legally. If I had a nickel for every time someone bemoaning the fact that they can’t get TRT from their PCP on this site, I’d be a millionaire many times over. I don’t get it…[/quote]

Cause in Canada I will have to pay out of pocket to see a Dr not refereed by my family practitioner. I can’t afford that.

If I had resources other then my family Dr that would not be 100$ an hour I would use it.

39

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
Spartiates: Like I was saying. I think the media has a LOT to do with it and of course sports being perfect example.
[/quote]

I guess the point I was trying to make, and didn’t completely articulate, is that it’s not like the media arbitrarily chose a side on this. They chose the side with the $$$: professional sports, rather than general well-being.

My guess is that for most non-active people, the only reason they can think of fit, is to one day become a professional athlete, and make millions… and of course you can’t do that if you’re on roids…

The end-game isn’t health, or quality of life, or even personal goals it’s: the reason people train hard is to become professional athletes and make millions. The reason the take testosterone is to “cheat” at it.

40

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
Cause in Canada I will have to pay out of pocket to see a Dr not refereed by my family practitioner. I can’t afford that.

If I had resources other then my family Dr that would not be 100$ an hour I would use it. [/quote]

Then get another family dr. If you want it bad enough, there are solutions.