After taking a second oppinion on another board, i’m being told that test taper isn’t the greatest. A nolvadex pct would be better. Is there a post here to compare the both? I feel a little concerned now, it being my frist cycle…
The test taper thread is a little long and doesn’t compare the both…
“And the PCT is ATROCIOUS… j/k but tapering imho is NOT good for men. Until the body see’s a deficient level of hormones (i.e. the exogenous drugs have cleared) the body wont restart production. Actually from my readings the problems more so not that the test doesn’t rebound but being off for weeks the Leydig cells are desensitized to LH so the normal level of LH doesn’t work you need EXTRA drug induced to get the same production initially using either HCG or SERMS.”
[quote]Hussayn wrote:
Until the body see’s a deficient level of hormones (i.e. the exogenous drugs have cleared) the body wont restart production.
[/quote]
This is incorrect. Pris provided the science in his original thread showing that exo T does NOT have to be zero, (i.e. the drugs don’t have to clear completely,) for endo production to happen.
The whole point of a taper is that it gradually introduces this ‘deficient level’ so that you never flatten out completely with no test. A nolva pct assumes that you’ve reached zero test and then builds natural production up as quickly as possible. Which would you rather have, no test (or at least next to it,) for a few weeks, or a little bit to get you by until endo production ramps up?
There have been many posts where people provided their personal anecdote comparing the two methods.
[quote]Whoa! wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
Until the body see’s a deficient level of hormones (i.e. the exogenous drugs have cleared) the body wont restart production.
This is incorrect. Pris provided the science in his original thread showing that exo T does NOT have to be zero, (i.e. the drugs don’t have to clear completely,) for endo production to happen.
The whole point of a taper is that it gradually introduces this ‘deficient level’ so that you never flatten out completely with no test. A nolva pct assumes that you’ve reached zero test and then builds natural production up as quickly as possible. Which would you rather have, no test (or at least next to it,) for a few weeks, or a little bit to get you by until endo production ramps up?
There have been many posts where people provided their personal anecdote comparing the two methods. [/quote]
That’s what I was thinking. I rather taper down and have my body notice that it should produce more test rather than flattening out to zero and build up from there.
Can you taper and use nolva to kick start it faster or would that be a waste?
Yes, you’ll find that the test taper isn’t very well received on other boards that don’t much believe in original thinking and some outside-the-box experimentation.
Yes, you can add in a SERM during the test taper as others have already done. Prob impossible to say whether it speeds recovery, but it certainly shouldn’t hurt it.
And since you mentioned that nolva-only PCT, I’m starting to suspect that the emotional sides that people blame on clomid is actually their own body’s reaction to the cold-turkey/SERM-only approach to PCT. When those test levels plummet post-cycle – and this can happen much quicker than all those half-life charts would have you believe – depression symptoms are not far behind.
I tend to not JUST believe pris, nor just believe the other camp and do a slight compromise.
Using a SERM THROUGHOUT the stasis AND taper will make sure the HPTA is ‘exposed’ and youalso get the lovely benefits of prisioners taper and stasis.
I have read the thread, but cannot see why a SERM cannot be used during the Stasis. In fact it states that a serm and 100mg shows no suppression… so it makes sense.
I am also thinking of using a hybrid of another guys taper. Using HCG at a small dose from 1/2 way into cycle until AFTER the taper begins - 2 weeks before the end.
OR there is a possibility of using HCG AS the exo test and tapering from that… it seems to make the most sense, but is difficult to measure…
[quote]Hussayn wrote:
And to make sure, stasis taper means to be on an amount your healthy testes would produce (ex 100 mg/w), right?[/quote]
No that’s just what stasis means. So stasis taper refers to the whole process of holding it at a set amount (100 mg/wk) and then gradually reducing (taper).
[quote]Whoa! wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
And to make sure, stasis taper means to be on an amount your healthy testes would produce (ex 100 mg/w), right?
No that’s just what stasis means. So stasis taper refers to the whole process of holding it at a set amount (100 mg/wk) and then gradually reducing (taper).[/quote]
ok cool… just got the terms messed up.
So i’ma stasis taper with the nolva, it shouldn’t hurt…
The weirdest thing about this gear game to me is that you are going to find mixed opinions on most issues, especially from board to board! The majority of opinions come from anecdotal experience or, they are just fads that will soon be replaced by the next “Big Breakthrough”. This is not to say that some opinions arent supported with scientific research.
The thing to remember is that AAS will effect some differently than others. Some people gain 20lbs of muscle from a simple 250mg/week test cycle, others gain 15lbs on 500mg/week. Some people respond well to a traditional PCT like with Nolva, others swear by prisoner’s stasis taper. Hell some people (believe it or not) think cold turkey is the way to go! Well which one is the best?
It all comes down to this… Take your time and get as much info on the subject as you can. Then make an intelligent decision based on what you have learned. Then take every precautionary method you can and go for it. This whole thing is really trial and error.
Nicely worded and quite true Jazz. Having said that while everyone must find there own path, it does help to follow a well marked trail. I agree not everyone will have the same response to everything. But there are overarching tendencies. Speaking as someone who tried tamoxifen only several times and the taper method [just once] the taper method IMO [and the O of many] is the better way to go. But all means you can combine them and get the best of both world.
[quote]saps wrote:
Nicely worded and quite true Jazz. Having said that while everyone must find there own path, it does help to follow a well marked trail. I agree not everyone will have the same response to everything. But there are overarching tendencies. Speaking as someone who tried tamoxifen only several times and the taper method [just once] the taper method IMO [and the O of many] is the better way to go. But all means you can combine them and get the best of both world. [/quote]