Test Lab Results

Pharma
1

Hey guys I have a question about some lab results I’ve done last week…

Stats:
5’11
30 y/o
238lbs
fat 13-14%
goal increase lean muscle

I checked for the first time my test and it was 450…I have searched online and it looks that is in the low side…doctor told me is normal, that I can gain muscle mass and have no issues. Energy and sex drive are good, but I think Im in a plateu at the gym, so the question is…

  1. is dr right? or it will be better going to a specialist so we can start a treatment?..I really want to gain some more muscle and move from the plateu i am now

  2. I wanted to start a cycle, is this is going to help my levels if i do a proper pct…or is better to hold until levels get higher…

thanks!

2

The number 450 by itself doesnt mean anything to me.
You dont even have the measurement units, or the range.
Have you been growing up until your plateu?
Have you used AAS before?

I wouldnt start any cycles just yet, most GP’s dont have a clue what they are talking about anyway. You need to also have oestrogen levels checked as high oestrogen levels can lead to suppression of your testosterone.

3

[quote]big_guy wrote:
Hey guys I have a question about some lab results I’ve done last week…

Stats:
5’11
30 y/o
238lbs
fat 13-14%
goal increase lean muscle

I checked for the first time my test and it was 450…I have searched online and it looks that is in the low side…doctor told me is normal, that I can gain muscle mass and have no issues. Energy and sex drive are good, but I think Im in a plateu at the gym, so the question is…

  1. is dr right? or it will be better going to a specialist so we can start a treatment?..I really want to gain some more muscle and move from the plateu i am now

  2. I wanted to start a cycle, is this is going to help my levels if i do a proper pct…or is better to hold until levels get higher…

thanks!
[/quote]

Well, first of all, 238 and 13-14% BF (if legit) is pretty good if you’ve never cycled before. Kudos.

There’s a lot beside your T level that could lead you to plateau in the gym (i.e. overtraining) and a lot that could be done to crack this plateau (swapping routine, improving diet, supplementing with creatine, NO2 supplement, etc.)

That being said, your T level (ng/dl) is a little on the low side, but a tough sell for most docs to put you on replacement therapy (TRT). To be honest, you might need to lower your T by low-carbing and overtraining to get a doc to put you on TRT, but I wouldn’t recommend that.

First, I suggest you check free T (the amount of testosterone in the bloodstream) and estrogen if you haven’t already. T is not the only indicator that determines whether you can build muscle. For example, some individuals have relatively high free T, despite lower overall T, and are able to build muscle pretty easily.

Also, it couldn’t hurt to look into natural ways to increase both T and free T. For example, nettle root binds to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), thereby increasing free testosterone. You can also increase testosterone by doing heavy squats (sets of 5-6), sleeping at least 8 hours, eating healthy fats like olive oil, brazil nuts, avacados, etc. Also eating lots of zync and veggies like brocolli and cauliflowers tend to decrease the aromatization of test into estrogen. You could try Tribulus or Tongkat Ali, which seem to boost T by increasing leutenizing hormone (LH). Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the â??activeâ?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym.

4

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:
Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the â??activeâ?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym. [/quote]

???

5

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:
Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the �¢??active�¢?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym. [/quote]

???[/quote]

Active form IDK what happened there. I meant to say that creatine supplies energy to muscle cells, not DHT, but creatine can raise DHT

6

Thanks…yeah natural here…I have taken some t boosters in the past but thats it…im going to post the complete lab results when i get them tomorrow…they just told me the t levels over the phone and i got kind of paranoid…tthanks for your advice, im currently taking ZMA and also NO before gym and try to sleep 8 hrs and eat helthy fats…overtraining I think that might be also…I havent stop w/o since last september when I took a week off…so im probably taking a week off this month…and change my w/o…my max weight was 245 same fat but with some water retention…that was back in august of last year…i decided to cut carbs and do more cardio and I been 235 - 240 since then…my only concern about this is that with that amount of test I cant build more muscle and start storing fat and stay in this plateu…maybe im just a litle paranoid about this…dr. told me that people can build muscle as long as their above normal levels and feeling good with no issues…he told me that i dont have to be in the 800s to build more muscle…but I think thats why we use test in the cycles right?..to increase the test levels therefore build more muscle …he is a doctor of internal medicine so probably better go to a specialist…

7

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:
Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the �??�??�?�¢??active�??�??�?�¢?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym. [/quote]

???[/quote]

Active form IDK what happened there. I meant to say that creatine supplies energy to muscle cells, not DHT, but creatine can raise DHT

[/quote]

I know what you are trying to say, but DHT is not the active form of testosterone, at least from an anabolic standpoint. AFAIK, DHT has little to no effect on muscle building.

Edit: reply was within quote

8

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:
Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the �??�??�??�?�¢??active�??�??�??�?�¢?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym. [/quote]

???[/quote]

Active form IDK what happened there. I meant to say that creatine supplies energy to muscle cells, not DHT, but creatine can raise DHT

[/quote]

I know what you are trying to say, but DHT is not the active form of testosterone, at least from an anabolic standpoint. AFAIK, DHT has little to no effect on muscle building.

Edit: reply was within quote
[/quote]

Yes, some confusion on my part! I just read an article

It sounds like DHT is still important for activating the CNS system, increasing libido, and also blocking estrogen.

“It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stressâ??not to mention optimal sexual function and libido.”

9

[quote]big_guy wrote:

Thanks…yeah natural here…I have taken some t boosters in the past but thats it…im going to post the complete lab results when i get them tomorrow…they just told me the t levels over the phone and i got kind of paranoid…tthanks for your advice, im currently taking ZMA and also NO before gym and try to sleep 8 hrs and eat helthy fats…overtraining I think that might be also…I havent stop w/o since last september when I took a week off…so im probably taking a week off this month…and change my w/o…my max weight was 245 same fat but with some water retention…that was back in august of last year…i decided to cut carbs and do more cardio and I been 235 - 240 since then…my only concern about this is that with that amount of test I cant build more muscle and start storing fat and stay in this plateu…maybe im just a litle paranoid about this…dr. told me that people can build muscle as long as their above normal levels and feeling good with no issues…he told me that i dont have to be in the 800s to build more muscle…but I think thats why we use test in the cycles right?..to increase the test levels therefore build more muscle …he is a doctor of internal medicine so probably better go to a specialist…[/quote]

It would be interesting to recheck T after a week or two off. Cutting carbs drastically and doing a lot of cardio can also lower T. Doc is probably right that you don’t have to be in the 800s to build muscle, but lower than say 300-400 and you might have some difficulty (from personal experience). Again, free T would also play a role.

I see a doc of internal medicine, specifically an endo, and am not super happy with him ATM. Just curious what are you looking to get out of the cycle? How much lean muscle?

10

Need your free levels of testosterone. And also estrogen levels. I would say those are the two most important.

11

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

Yes, some confusion on my part! I just read an article.

It sounds like DHT is still important for activating the CNS system, increasing libido, and also blocking estrogen.

“It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stressâ??not to mention optimal sexual function and libido.”
[/quote]

Pretty interesting. I’ve never seen research linking DHT to CNS activation. I know it is critical for libido and sexual function, so I guess it makes sense that some sort of psychological mechanism is also affected. Cool.

12

Im trying to be 240 - 245lbs again but with less body fat and water retention…I think thats big already for 5’11…i have a rugby / football player frame…some areas look soft though…i have 19 inch arms but i need more definition there cause they dont look as big (at least to me)…so basically my goal with a cycle will be incrase some mass w/o fat or water retention…

my big concern is that if i have 450 test now, i dont want it to get lower after the cycle…i want to do a proper pct but still that kind of concerns me…and the BIG QUESTOIN will be if it is posible to grow muscle and not store fat / water retention or move from ur plateu @ lower levels of T like 400’s, that still is consider above normal…according to my doctor it is, as long as it is above normal and ur not having any issues (low libido …etc) u can grow muscle at any level of t…

13

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:
Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the �??�??�??�??�?�¢??active�??�??�??�??�?�¢?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym. [/quote]

???[/quote]

Active form IDK what happened there. I meant to say that creatine supplies energy to muscle cells, not DHT, but creatine can raise DHT

[/quote]

I know what you are trying to say, but DHT is not the active form of testosterone, at least from an anabolic standpoint. AFAIK, DHT has little to no effect on muscle building.

Edit: reply was within quote
[/quote]

Yes, some confusion on my part! I just read an article

It sounds like DHT is still important for activating the CNS system, increasing libido, and also blocking estrogen.

“It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stressâ??not to mention optimal sexual function and libido.”
[/quote]

No offense but I don’t think you should be slinging out advice… you are getting a knowledge base, but from the posts in this thread, you should focus on learning for yourself, not educating others…

14

[quote]big_guy wrote:
Im trying to be 240 - 245lbs again but with less body fat and water retention…I think thats big already for 5’11…i have a rugby / football player frame…some areas look soft though…i have 19 inch arms but i need more definition there cause they dont look as big (at least to me)…so basically my goal with a cycle will be incrase some mass w/o fat or water retention…

my big concern is that if i have 450 test now, i dont want it to get lower after the cycle…i want to do a proper pct but still that kind of concerns me…and the BIG QUESTOIN will be if it is posible to grow muscle and not store fat / water retention or move from ur plateu @ lower levels of T like 400’s, that still is consider above normal…according to my doctor it is, as long as it is above normal and ur not having any issues (low libido …etc) u can grow muscle at any level of t…[/quote]

You can’t really accurately predict where your test will be after the cycle, but it will probably be lower following a cycle than it currently is, although your recovery may go fine. The doctor is right that you can make gains with test in that range, I got to 245lbs and a 755 squat with test levels around 274 pg/dl… Which is pretty low.

If you want to do a cycle, do it. Just research a proper first cycle, ancillaries, post cycle therapy, and understand that recovery is never a guarantee.

15

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]jimbo12 wrote:
Finally, creatine is known to increase conversion of free testosterone to the �??�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??active�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢?? form of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and this helps supply energy to muscle cells in general, boosting your performance in the gym. [/quote]

???[/quote]

Active form IDK what happened there. I meant to say that creatine supplies energy to muscle cells, not DHT, but creatine can raise DHT

[/quote]

I know what you are trying to say, but DHT is not the active form of testosterone, at least from an anabolic standpoint. AFAIK, DHT has little to no effect on muscle building.

Edit: reply was within quote
[/quote]

Yes, some confusion on my part! I just read an article

It sounds like DHT is still important for activating the CNS system, increasing libido, and also blocking estrogen.

“It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stressÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??not to mention optimal sexual function and libido.”
[/quote]

No offense but I don’t think you should be slinging out advice… you are getting a knowledge base, but from the posts in this thread, you should focus on learning for yourself, not educating others…
[/quote]

The only actual advice I gave was check free T and estrogen, look into ways to naturally boost T, and maybe recheck T after a week or two off of training. Pretty harmless IMO. I didn’t specifically say “do a cycle,” “don’t do a cycle,” “go on TRT,” “try every possible supplement to boost T”… True that I initially said DHT was an active form of T (it actually is in a non-anabolic sense), but that wasn’t really advice. I thought I made up for that by posting a finding that DHT is linked with CNS activation. CNS can play a big role in lifting. If you disagree with any advice I gave, let me know. I thought most of what I offered was harmless info… and proportional to the knowledge I have. At any rate, a grown 30 year old man is probably smart enough to take or leave advice given on an open forum like this.