You are the guys who I am speaking on, that give me the proper insight to make the proper decisions
I appreciate you all, greatly again
I take this all to heart and mind equally and plan to listen to my fellow trainees
I’m talking about the guys who just pop up and bash fuark youuuu, but mostly all of this is exactly what is needed
Guys Its just me on this fitness journey to finally speak to guys who know about this shit is god sent, thank you all
You keep your fellow gym members safe and I am going to access everything trust brothers!
It is hard when y’all bash size and all that aside, I do take pride in my physique and I am still small but being big and healthy is my goal.
Don’t mean to sound like an ass, I have only researched never had anyone to speak to… You guys don’t need to hate or be mad
It’s just a young man trying to learn, but again
Have listened TO EVERYTHING all of you have said just alot to take in haha !
I had to deal with the same stuff starting off man, and forums like these weren’t as popular then. Look around, read a bunch, follow some of the training logs in here and see how others train.
My best recommendation is to get hold of Wendler’s 5/3/1 e-book, read it, and follow the programs for 6 months or so. Those are as good as gear for anyone starting off or getting more serious about training. Feel free to check out my training log - I’ve used 5/3/1 exclusively for about 6 years (only logged for a couple years here though).
I haven’t seen anyone here bashing you. They have been honest, and it may have felt that they were bashing you, but that is not the case. Being small is a mindset; eat right, lift heavy shit, and track both.
Feel free to stick with your TRT (misusing the term) because you now likely don’t have a choice. But while you are on it, do the shit that makes sense to do - like putting in the work and reaching your genetic limits BEFORE blasting.
You can even start a log on here to keep yourself accountable. If you had shown up at 170-180lbs and relatively lean, most people would have been commenting with legitimate cycle advice because it is understandable and more warranted. Taking what you intend to take, with as much progress as you need is very misplaced though.
This can be done with nothing more than your TRT protocol and pretty much all other advice in this thread. I sincerely recommend taking this advice and holding onto it until you reach a point where progress has all but stalled. If you aren’t tracking your macros and training, then your best and fastest results have yet to be unlocked.
FWIW I have been around the block with gear for almost two decades. Although I took a long 10+ year break from my first time partaking to my second phase of partaking. What I have learned is that, for the most part, TRT is going to give you all the ammo you need to make gains that stick. Cycling is mostly an up and down game with rented muscle.
Now, I don’t know if you truly need TRT or not. At 24, I would think of it as a last resort. Since you’re on it anyway, utilize the optimized hormone levels, dial in your nutrition and keep pounding them weights.
Just want to throw this out there because I didn’t see it but I did speed read; you’re messing with your future fertility. Dive through some threads on here about guys trying to conceive. Try explaining that to a partner 10 years from now.
Secondly, my stats were only slightly better at your age, maybe 20lbs heavier. Age does do a lot for adding strength and size. I was the strongest and biggest I had ever been before AAS around 37 years old. Maturity does a lot for us ectomorphs. Lastly, I have been on AAS for about a year and a half, with a lot of education about the body and what this is doing to me. Underwhelmed, yes. It’s done more for my mental faculties than it has my body and I’ve used some solid doses and AAS. I’m certainly more muscular than most guys at the average gym but not nearly where I thought I would be. Your decision is made, I hear you. You couldn’t change my mind on something like this at your age either. Just food for thought if you decide to change your mind in a few months, PCT and maintain your future ability to procreate.
I think most are underwhelmed. That video I posted above gets into timeline, and I think that is fairly realistic (time for gains with drugs, and it gets into different genetics and what to expect). A lot of us were hoping to be lean and 230 lbs (assuming average height) in a year. Just doesn’t happen in that time frame, and even with a longer time frame doesn’t happen without genetics, work, diet…
We see guys post who put on 25 lbs on their first cycle. Well, a lot was water and fat, they were not close to maxed out on their natty gains, maybe they have the genetics to respond well, etc…
We expect instant gratification lol. I did go through some general social media pics the other day. I have had slow and steady gains each blast that have stayed so that justified continued use. If the gains stay linear, I’m fine with another two years of blasting and cruising before I level off maybe. Not ready to throw in the towel, but I have certainly adjusted my expectations. I’m fine with the gains I have made, but very few would call me a roid freak lol.
That is what I’ve noticed too. Steady progress more or less. I wanted that 50 lb bench PR on the first cycle though. I got more like 20 lbs.
I think for me, I am not willing to go too crazy with dosages and multiple compounds or to use stuff like slin. If I can have a lean physique (6 pack without flexing, but not peeled) at like 210 lbs at 5’10", I would be pretty happy (I think). I guess I just thought that was a blast or two away, but it’s likely more like 5-6 total blasts, and getting into the moderate use stage (a gram of gear).
You probably could get as jacked as this Jay Cutler.
The other one though, probably not unless you have very very good genetics, and you will need some additional supplements.
Honestly, moderate blasts probably wouldn’t get me to what the BBer Cutler could have achieved natty.
I think a good example of genetics is Ronnie. I think only a small percentage of guys could get to Ronnie’s natty level if they juiced to the gills.
On the left is Ronnie where he claimed natty, right is enhanced. Now I actually believe Ronnie was natty on the left. He is about 70 lbs heavier on the right. I just don’t think if the left picture was him enhanced, that he could have gotten to the size on the right (or at least he was barely enhanced on the left).
I know a lot of guys on gear. A few (like 2) have roughly that size (Ronnie on the left), but they are sauced to the gills, and even though they have the overall size they don’t look close to that good.
I dunno, Ronnie can claim natty on the left picture but he’s cut and fucking yuuuuggee, and that was at like 21 yrs right?
Not contesting the importance of genetics or what you’re saying at all, I just don’t know if even THAT is possible with great genetics. But you never know, Ronnie could have been like one of those Belgian cows thats 100% muscle too.
I mean we can’t know for sure. I just kinda doubt if he had been on the sauce for awhile and decent dosages on the left picture, that he could have progressed so much past it.
I guess my point is that the guys at the top in BBing, are just insane. They are so outside of normal for muscle, that even if natty and untrained, they would look jacked (if they were lean). What they could achieve natty, is more than many can do enhanced.
You hear some guys say, “oh, if I was on what they were on, I’d look like that too”. They probably would look worse than those guys did when they were natty.
I do have a hard time believing most pro BBers with really anything they say or do, but that also fits my belief that theres no f@cking way you’re doing xyz alone and getting 22" arms.
Some of Ronnie’s quotes make him even less believable on his training methods… “My goal is to lift whatever weight it takes, for however many reps and sets it takes” as if you could possibly provide a more vague answer lol. At any rate, Ronnie was also a complete anomaly even in BBing; not only was he as big as they come in regards to BBers, he would still have made one hell of a powerlifter if he’d chosen that route. Most every Olympian is crazy strong, but still many wouldn’t be able to touch Ronnie’s lifts in his prime.
True, Ronnie was strong AF. Have you seen this video?
Go about a minute in, and you will see an impressive feat of strength by a guy how looks to be about 80. I think it is close to a 500 lb pull. Wonder what that dude would have deadlifted if he got into it at a young age?
I had a little boxing gym and we had these rubber display pieces that showed 1lb of fat compared to 1lb of muscle. Obvi the fat was like 3 times the size. But when you put 5 of those muscle pieces together, you saw just how big 5lbs of muscle looked. Imagine adding a lbs of lean mass to each shoulder, back, etc. I think about that anytime I worry that I’m not growing quick enough, or see someone wanting 30 lbs of muscle on a cycle. You may be surprised you don’t need that much to look big
I’ve heard the ground beef example. Think about what 5 lbs of ground beef looks like. It’s a lot. Spread that round on the body, and it is a big effect. 20 lbs of actual muscle, makes someone look like a different person in many cases.
Ronnie straight up looks like an action figure with that shoulder/waist ratio. Dude was just something else.
I’ve always wondered if perhaps natural genetic potential is very similar for most people - including Olympians, and maybe they are just extreme responders to the AAS they were taking. Like if they took 500mg Test/week it would have the same effect as if I took 1000mg/week.
None of them ever open up about honest usage, as suits their perogative, but I feel like them NOT saying anything about it causes a lot of indirect and misplaced steroid abuse.
I agree for the most part. I think there was a series where Tom Platz interviewed numerous BBers (faces blurred out) for about an hour. It is obvious who these guys are though (I mean I know it’s you Ronnie, your voice isn’t that hard to decipher). Lee Priest’s self reported drug use was laughable (like 2 CCs of Deca and 2 CCs of Primo). Paul Dillett I think was honest. His dosages made sense (they were high as one would expect).
IDK. Strength for sure is much different among naturals. Some guys can be very strong natty, and some guys not so much. We also just see in untrained individuals that two guys of the same height and similar leanness might be 40 lbs different as starting points.
Maybe we are closer on muscle though. FFMI is an interesting metric. 25 FFMI being a standard used to determine natty or not. I don’t think a 30 FFMI is going to happen naturally. 27-28 maybe with ultra rare genetics. What could we expect for someone on the other end of the spectrum that trains hard for a decade with good diet. Maybe 22-23? There is a huge difference between an FFMI of 22 and 28 though.
