I am by no means an AAS vet, but I have put a few dozen hours into some research. I am considering the following cycle. I will put what and why; please give me your feedback.
FYI, I’m on test replacement, so no need for PCT or to worry about permanent shut down. And, this would be my second cycle; I ran straight Test Cyp at 500mg/week with Adex at .5mg ED. Gained a very modest, but permanent 8lb in 12 weeks.
Currently Test Cyp, 150mg/week, Adex .25mg daily. I need daily Adex to keep my E2 at or under 22 which is ideal from what I researched.
Cycle:
Test Cyp 750mg/week, weeks 1-12, bulking agent.
DBol 20mg ED (one 10mg AM and one 10mg PM), weeks 1-4/up to 6 weeks (may go longer since I’m using a tame dosage), kick-start bulking agent.
Proviron, 50mg ED, weeks 1-12, helps make more bioavailable test since it binds to SHBG and acts as an anti-E (I’ve read that some BB only use this as their main anti-E during cycle).
Continue Adex at .25mg ED, indefinitely, for anti-E of course to due to the high aromatization of test (DBol to a lessor extent as 20mg ED is a mild dose).
Goals, to keep current body fat levels (a slight decrease from the Proviron would not hurt since it can stimulate AR’s in fat cells), and to add a permanent 15lbs of LBM.
Any comments from vets, please fire away.
Thanks a lot,
TS
The proviron will be a waste IMO.
The SHBG thing is overrated. Do some research on this site about it. There are quite a few threads from '09-'10 about it.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The proviron will be a waste IMO.
The SHBG thing is overrated. Do some research on this site about it. There are quite a few threads from '09-'10 about it. [/quote]
From what I’ve read Masteron is similar chemically yet yields better results. In my case though, cost is about 3:1 (proviron vs mast) from my supplier. Yet, it still seems as though proviron is somewhat popular. What would you suggest as an alternative?
Anyone with any personal experience with proviron or mast?
Also, do you think 20mg ED of DBol is sufficient for my goals? I tend to be sensitive to 17aa drugs as I had horrible sides (headaches) on M1T. Is DBol similar in sides?
FYI: I am 6-0, 220, about 15% BF, 20 year training experience (5 in bodybuilding), I’m a training/nutrition professional so diet and supps are on point.
Thanks.
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[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The proviron will be a waste IMO.
The SHBG thing is overrated. Do some research on this site about it. There are quite a few threads from '09-'10 about it. [/quote]
From what I’ve read Masteron is similar chemically yet yields better results. In my case though, cost is about 3:1 (proviron vs mast) from my supplier. Yet, it still seems as though proviron is somewhat popular. What would you suggest as an alternative?
Anyone with any personal experience with proviron or mast?
Also, do you think 20mg ED of DBol is sufficient for my goals? I tend to be sensitive to 17aa drugs as I had horrible sides (headaches) on M1T. Is DBol similar in sides?
FYI: I am 6-0, 220, about 15% BF, 20 year training experience (5 in bodybuilding), I’m a training/nutrition professional so diet and supps are on point.
Thanks. [/quote]
“chemically similar” really means nothing when it comes to this sort of thing. As an alternative, Id suggest somethign that will actually provide tangible results, basically anything besides proviron.
M1T is much harsher than dbol.
IMO Proviron for anti-e is a bit of waste of money. You are taking adex aren’t you?
You mentioned that you take .25mg adex ED with your TRT and .5mg ed for a 500mg test blast cycle previously.
Why are you only taking .25mg adex ed this time? You have bumped up test to 750mg weekly and added dbol 20mg ED. which coverts to estrogen easily. I am guessing that you will probably need up to 0.75-1mg adex per day to keep your e2 down to 22.
If you are on TRT and are over 35, I wouldn’t want to use orals. It’s a bit harsh on the liver and lipids. For the sake of long term health.
The bottom line is 750mg test + dbol is a effective bulking cycle, but IMO is not a “quality” cycle for you.
I propose the following cycle
test c 500mg /week 1-12
masteron 350mg /week 1-12
adex 0.25mg - 0.5mgED
Masteron will have a moderate anti-e effect. So please get some blood work done to determine the optimal adex dosage.
I think you can recomp to 220lbs 10% at the end of this cycle. It would look better than 235lbs 15% bloated. Think about your clients too aye? lean > bloat
[quote]mephistopheles wrote:
IMO Proviron for anti-e is a bit of waste of money. You are taking adex aren’t you?
You mentioned that you take .25mg adex ED with your TRT and .5mg ed for a 500mg test blast cycle previously.
Why are you only taking .25mg adex ed this time? You have bumped up test to 750mg weekly and added dbol 20mg ED. which coverts to estrogen easily. I am guessing that you will probably need up to 0.75-1mg adex per day to keep your e2 down to 22.
If you are on TRT and are over 35, I wouldn’t want to use orals. It’s a bit harsh on the liver and lipids. For the sake of long term health.
The bottom line is 750mg test + dbol is a effective bulking cycle, but IMO is not a “quality” cycle for you.
I propose the following cycle
test c 500mg /week 1-12
masteron 350mg /week 1-12
adex 0.25mg - 0.5mgED
Masteron will have a moderate anti-e effect. So please get some blood work done to determine the optimal adex dosage.
I think you can recomp to 220lbs 10% at the end of this cycle. It would look better than 235lbs 15% bloated. Think about your clients too aye? lean > bloat
[/quote]
I really appreciate the response. From what I’ve read, proviron was a moderate anti-E, which is why adex would be left at .25mg. But obviously in your personal experience, you do not recommend it. You make a good point; it would be better to be at 220 lean than 235 and less lean. Now, with the masteron at 350mg/week, you have the adex at maybe .5mg ED (using blood labs to verify). So, you are implying that masterone is both an mind anti-E AND helps free test levels AND helps lean out? That is an amazing drug. Would deca fit in here anywhere, since it is very low aromatization? Thanks!
The effectiveness of proviron can vary, since it’s an oral drug.
Masteron was used clinically as a anti-e steroid to treat breast cancer. on a per mg basis, definitely stronger than proviron, plus it’s anabolic as well. I don’t know about the “free up test” thing, since no one has done a study on it. I don’t think medical professional / drug company is interest on that. But definitely a good combination with test.
Beware of DHT related sides though, oily skin, hair loss, prostate, high bp etc.
I don’t think you should use nandrolone on this cycle. 2 drug stack is enough for this time around. Maybe next time. I am not a big fan of deca though. Long ester, prolactin, supressive, harden arteries etc.
[quote]mephistopheles wrote:
The effectiveness of proviron can vary, since it’s an oral drug.
Masteron was used clinically as a anti-e steroid to treat breast cancer. on a per mg basis, definitely stronger than proviron, plus it’s anabolic as well. I don’t know about the “free up test” thing, since no one has done a study on it. I don’t think medical professional / drug company is interest on that. But definitely a good combination with test.
Beware of DHT related sides though, oily skin, hair loss, prostate, high bp etc.
I don’t think you should use nandrolone on this cycle. 2 drug stack is enough for this time around. Maybe next time. I am not a big fan of deca though. Long ester, prolactin, supressive, harden arteries etc. [/quote]
I appreciate the input.
After researching some more, I have found on these boards and on others, that guys do think proviron is useful. Some have reported needing very little additional E control during a cycle of test. BONES was not a huge fan of it, but again, I am finding that guys to like it. Is masteron better - sounds like it. But in my case it’s also 3-4X more costly.
As far as the free test thing goes, I did find a study that showed proviron bound nicely to SHBG, which of course would mean that test would be more apt to bind to other tissues, esp AR’s.
TS
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